Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game "The 30-06 is obsolete!"

300 WBY beats both of them, especially for elk

And the .300 RUM beats that. When is enough enough?

460 WBY Mag



Jerry

You're not very good at name calling, let alone providing real data to support your position. When it comes to that all we hear is.... crickets.

The fact is there is no replacement for displacement and the .30-06 wins with a 19% greater case capacity. Even though the .308 Win has a higher SAAMI MAP, MAP is not the only determinant of bullet velocity. The fact is the 308's smaller powder charges cannot produce the volume of gas that the .30-06's larger powder charges do. The ,30-06's higher gas volume allows bullets to be propelled at a more level pressure. Even with a lower MAP, this advantage looms larger with heavier bullets. but shows up at other weights as well. Case in point, the .30-06 can propel a 110g bullet 200fps faster than a .308 Win using pressures 2,000PSI lower. (Hodgdon data).


Nosler lists a 220g .30-06 load at 2602fps. Where is your real world .308 Win equivalent? Are you going to provide one and prove your point or resort to more childish name calling?

Are you kidding? The entertainment value alone......

You really have literally no clue what the cartridges are capable of, do you coyote? Like none at all. It's amazing that someone who knows so little would be so eager to expose themselves repeatedly.

That load doesn't beat the.308 at all.

More theoretical data. (yawn)


Please provide tested data. I've provided multiple REAL loads for the .30-06, you haven't produced a single one for the .308 Win that can match them.

This has been an entertaining thread.

Bob, just a question.

The advantage of short action vs long action is subjective and reasonable minds can differ.

The real world "advantage" of an extra 100ish fps or so, with similar Bullets , is also subjective.

But are you really contending that an extra 15-20% case capacity doesn't give a cartridge more ballistic potential?

PS. IMO, . Dispensing with the name calling would enhance your credibility.

It is a darn good varmint rifle.

Case capacity increases the attainable energy/velocity, no question. It's not linear - if you increase your case capacity by 10%, you don't get a 10% increase in muzzle energy even though you can put in 10% more powder and thus 10% more chemical energy. You might get a 5% increase in muzzle energy depending on a variety of factors. In other words cases get less efficient as they get bigger, even as they become more powerful.

Now we come to the .30-06. It's inefficient shoulder, low MAP, and the extra barrel length consumed by the longer chamber (barrels are measured from the breach face, which makes sense from a weight perspective) all work against it relative to the .308. What you will find when you do the math is that most of what the .30-06 gains due to extra case capacity is lost back due to poor design. All that remains is a trivial difference that only manifests in a very short list of powders, none of which have been named by the .30-06 advocates, possibly because their load data is as out of date as their cartridge.

As far as coyote, his behavior in this thread is so poor that at this point anything other than calling him ignorant is a waste of time. If he want to come back, admit he knows next to nothing about interior ballistics, and is willing to learn we can try again. But as it stands I will say nothing respectful to him as respect is earned and he hasn't. I have no problem engaging with others on the topic, but ignorant boy has proven that dealing with him is a waste of time.

And the .30 T/C is supposed to be a more efficient cartridge than either of them. But nobody cared.

Now That's what I'm talkin about ! ! grin

Do you have a shooting background, or did you just read about this stuff?

" Chemical energy"????????

Good Stuff

This thread has gone on for longer than I thought it ever would and taken a direction I didn't think of when originally posting it. No science or prejudice, but if I had to pick between a 30-06 or a 308 Win., the 30-06 would win every time. In fact, I just bought another 30-06! But it's what I grew up with, and I have tons of stuff for it. I'm still using Norma brass my dad got back in the 60's. My dad was a one rifle man, a commercial FN Mauser Musketeer in 30-06. From moose to elk to deer and everything else he ever went after. And everything with only one bullet, a 165 gr. Nosler Partition and he taught me the advantage, and benefit, of high percentage shots. Any way, all we have in any of this is each other, there's enough forces outside of us ready to do us in!

Yup - a term for the energy stored in the gunpowder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_energy

A more specific term is "heat of explosion" but it's more prone to misunderstanding as it's really an amount of energy, not a temperature

Nope, just pellet guns for me.

Of course I shoot. What I'm describing here is really internal ballistics 101. The bare minimum stuff you'd need to understand to safely develop high performance loads for a new cartridge.

Never seen that pic before, must be from this week?

Just wondered.