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#10428960 - 09/14/15 .44/40 or 45LC.......?  
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16gauge Offline
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I am thinking about getting an Uberti 1866 Winchester clone....don't plan on doing any "cowboy action" shooting; just shooting paper and doing some deer hunting. Which cartrdge would be better suited for my purposes? Seems like the .45LC would get the edge, due to more bullet designs, etc., but I'd like to hear from folks that have used either/both for hunting.
Thanks.......


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#10430390 - 09/14/15 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 16gauge]  
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sharpsguy Online content
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I have a Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 45 Colt, and a iron framed Uberti Henry in 44-40. Both are accurate and pleasant to shoot, the Henry will easily cut playing cards edgewise offhand at 25 yards. I have in fact killed two crows at 200 yards with the Henry.

On the other hand, if I were to hunt deer and had to choose between the two rifles, I would take the Marlin in 45 colt. Loaded with a 250 grain Keith style bullet and 8.5 grains of Unique, it is a really reliable killer, and will shoot through and through the shoulders of a deer at 100 yards. The other side of the coin is that I once shot a coyote on the shoulder with the 44-40 Henry, and it didn't go all the way through. I just think the 45 Colt is a much more effective cartridge.

#10442726 - 09/16/15 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 16gauge]  
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With the Marlin, the ctg. is fed at an angle. Thus, there has to be some chamber tolerance with those type actions for smooth cycling. The '66/'73 clones feed straight in from the elevator and the chambers can be tighter than angle feed lever guns.

The .44-40 is a thin walled case designed for lever guns. The .45 Colt is a thick walled case. With cowboy action, low powered loads, the .45 Colt is bad about blow back. The thick walled case won't expand enough with those loads to seal itself against the chamber wall. .44-40's will seal with most any load.

The .45 Colt is straight walled and easier to reload. The bottle neck, thin wall .44-40 case will crush if not handled with care. You gotta bell the case mouth slightly to receive a bullet.

I turned my .45 Marlin Cowboy into a 'diller killer. With 300 gr. cast or jacketed bullets ahead of a full house 4227 load, that gun is a real killing machine. I installed a Bushnell Holosight, really neat. No blow back here... grin

For CAS, I went with '73 clones and .38 Spec.

DF

#10726425 - 11/24/15 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: sharpsguy]  
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Originally Posted by sharpsguy
I have a Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 45 Colt, and a iron framed Uberti Henry in 44-40. Both are accurate and pleasant to shoot, the Henry will easily cut playing cards edgewise offhand at 25 yards. I have in fact killed two crows at 200 yards with the Henry.

On the other hand, if I were to hunt deer and had to choose between the two rifles, I would take the Marlin in 45 colt. Loaded with a 250 grain Keith style bullet and 8.5 grains of Unique, it is a really reliable killer, and will shoot through and through the shoulders of a deer at 100 yards. The other side of the coin is that I once shot a coyote on the shoulder with the 44-40 Henry, and it didn't go all the way through. I just think the 45 Colt is a much more effective cartridge.


An excellent report on field effectiveness here. This is why, after 40 years of shooting critters, the 45 Colt is the only revolver cartridge we keep on the place. From a sixgun or carbine, anything you'll need to do is easily accomplished with the 45's original ballistics. These days I use 8.5 grains of Universal and a Lee 452-255-RF.


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#10754212 - 12/05/15 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 16gauge]  
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Strider Offline
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Either cartridge will do what you want. If you are not a hand loader, check availability of ammo for each cartridge in your area.


The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.

Samuel Adams

#10754247 - 12/05/15 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 16gauge]  
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If you reload, the 44-40 sucks, and the brass is a lot harder to get, also. Not to mention finding good Factory Hunting Ammo. I'd go with the 45 Colt, any old day and twice on Sunday!


"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." unknown
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#11200426 - 05/22/16 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: SargeMO]  
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Anjin Offline
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Originally Posted by SargeMO
Originally Posted by sharpsguy
I have a Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 45 Colt, and a iron framed Uberti Henry in 44-40. Both are accurate and pleasant to shoot, the Henry will easily cut playing cards edgewise offhand at 25 yards. I have in fact killed two crows at 200 yards with the Henry.

On the other hand, if I were to hunt deer and had to choose between the two rifles, I would take the Marlin in 45 colt. Loaded with a 250 grain Keith style bullet and 8.5 grains of Unique, it is a really reliable killer, and will shoot through and through the shoulders of a deer at 100 yards. The other side of the coin is that I once shot a coyote on the shoulder with the 44-40 Henry, and it didn't go all the way through. I just think the 45 Colt is a much more effective cartridge.


An excellent report on field effectiveness here. This is why, after 40 years of shooting critters, the 45 Colt is the only revolver cartridge we keep on the place. From a sixgun or carbine, anything you'll need to do is easily accomplished with the 45's original ballistics. These days I use 8.5 grains of Universal and a Lee 452-255-RF.


I would expect that the .44 Rem Mag or the .44 Special would be in the running, too?


Norman Solberg
Back in the US after 25 years, now helping protect wealth through private trusts in the US, the safest place in the world. NRA Life Member for 50 years, Endowment from 2014, Patron from 2016.
#11208377 - 05/26/16 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: SargeMO]  
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260Remguy Online content
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Originally Posted by SargeMO
Originally Posted by sharpsguy
I have a Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 45 Colt, and a iron framed Uberti Henry in 44-40. Both are accurate and pleasant to shoot, the Henry will easily cut playing cards edgewise offhand at 25 yards. I have in fact killed two crows at 200 yards with the Henry.

On the other hand, if I were to hunt deer and had to choose between the two rifles, I would take the Marlin in 45 colt. Loaded with a 250 grain Keith style bullet and 8.5 grains of Unique, it is a really reliable killer, and will shoot through and through the shoulders of a deer at 100 yards. The other side of the coin is that I once shot a coyote on the shoulder with the 44-40 Henry, and it didn't go all the way through. I just think the 45 Colt is a much more effective cartridge.


An excellent report on field effectiveness here. This is why, after 40 years of shooting critters, the 45 Colt is the only revolver cartridge we keep on the place. From a sixgun or carbine, anything you'll need to do is easily accomplished with the 45's original ballistics. These days I use 8.5 grains of Universal and a Lee 452-255-RF.


I wonder why nobody chambered the .45 Colt in lever guns back when they were the most popular rifles on the market.

#11208935 - 05/26/16 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 16gauge]  
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greatwhite Offline
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Did Marlin make the 1895 in 45-70 Govt??

I just picked up a Rossi '92 in 454 Casull. Love it. They also make the '92 in a straight 45LC, but 45LC can also be shot in the 454 to cut down on plinking expenses...

#11209790 - 05/26/16 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 260Remguy]  
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Parts unknown...
Originally Posted by 260Remguy
Originally Posted by SargeMO
Originally Posted by sharpsguy
I have a Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 45 Colt, and a iron framed Uberti Henry in 44-40. Both are accurate and pleasant to shoot, the Henry will easily cut playing cards edgewise offhand at 25 yards. I have in fact killed two crows at 200 yards with the Henry.

On the other hand, if I were to hunt deer and had to choose between the two rifles, I would take the Marlin in 45 colt. Loaded with a 250 grain Keith style bullet and 8.5 grains of Unique, it is a really reliable killer, and will shoot through and through the shoulders of a deer at 100 yards. The other side of the coin is that I once shot a coyote on the shoulder with the 44-40 Henry, and it didn't go all the way through. I just think the 45 Colt is a much more effective cartridge.


An excellent report on field effectiveness here. This is why, after 40 years of shooting critters, the 45 Colt is the only revolver cartridge we keep on the place. From a sixgun or carbine, anything you'll need to do is easily accomplished with the 45's original ballistics. These days I use 8.5 grains of Universal and a Lee 452-255-RF.


I wonder why nobody chambered the .45 Colt in lever guns back when they were the most popular rifles on the market.
Colt made pistols and Winchester made rifles. The 44 WCF was a rifle cartridge. There were supposedly feeding problems with the straight-walled case.


MAGA!
#11209807 - 05/26/16 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: greatwhite]  
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Originally Posted by greatwhite
Did Marlin make the 1895 in 45-70 Govt??

I just picked up a Rossi '92 in 454 Casull. Love it. They also make the '92 in a straight 45LC, but 45LC can also be shot in the 454 to cut down on plinking expenses...


Marlin 1895 & 45-70 yes............

I find Marlins much easy to clean/service over the Rossi's

[Linked Image]

#11265076 - 06/22/16 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: greatwhite]  
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Originally Posted by greatwhite
Did Marlin make the 1895 in 45-70 Govt??

I just picked up a Rossi '92 in 454 Casull. Love it. They also make the '92 in a straight 45LC, but 45LC can also be shot in the 454 to cut down on plinking expenses...
Certainly. I once owned an original 1895 in 45-70. They made the '95 in several other calibers too.

Marlin actually made the first viable repeater in 45-70. Winchester came out with the big bore 1876 in 45-75 Win. in 1876 but the 45-75, while underrated, is still not the cartridge the 45-70 is. In 1881, Marlin trumped Winchester by coming out with their model 1881 in 45-70. This was five years before Winchester made their famous model 1886 in the same caliber. No doubt the model 1895 is better than the '81 although the original 1895 I owned exhibited feeding problems. My original 1886 was one of the best guns I've ever owned and it started out life as a 40-82 but was re-chambered to 45-70.

[Linked Image]

1876 replica.


MAGA!
#11266363 - 06/23/16 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 16gauge]  
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The rim on original .45 Colt ammunition in the black powder era was not suitable for use in rifles because it was smaller and weaker than the rim on today's version. There would have been great difficulties with reliable extraction.


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#11499607 - 10/12/16 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 16gauge]  
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Picked up this very lightly used 66 Yellow Boy saddle carbine the other day in 45 LC ..The seller also had a 44/40..Was a no brainer for me choosing the 45 since from past experience loading the 44/40 wasn't nearly as easy. Already having several good .454 bullet molds from my SAA days was also a factor.

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Woody
#11503638 - 10/14/16 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 16gauge]  
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Flyboyflem;
That is one BEAUTIFUL rifle!!! ....and that is exactly the one I am looking for. Congratulations on your find; I'm still keeping an eye out. Let us know how it shoots.


"If you dog thinks you're the greatest, don't go seeking a second opinion!"
#11529322 - 10/25/16 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 16gauge]  
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Though the .45 is generally easier to load for, I've had better luck getting the .44-40 to seal the chamber in lever rifles better.



"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
#11769947 - 01/25/17 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 16gauge]  
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I load my .44-40 Henry with 777 often. I chronograph about 1360 fps. It's accurate enough at 100 yards that I'd shoot at a deer if I were to carry it, but it's a heavy rifle so I don't carry it.

Reloading the .44-40 is not for speed freaks. Take your time and you won't crush brass. Get in a hurry and you'll get frustrated. The walls are thin and crimping should be a separate process and done with care.

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#11774059 - 01/27/17 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 16gauge]  
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I have not tried it but have been told by the cowboy shooters that if you resize the .44/40 brass for the .45 Colt it will seal better and reduce blowing back fouling into the action when using BP.


Guns don't kill people, it's mostly the bullets
#11774100 - 01/27/17 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: pacecars]  
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I have zero problems with blow back in my 45 Colt Uberti '66 Win but use big 300 gr cast bullets sized to .454 over 20.0 grs of BH209 which is 100% load density.IMO bullets .452 are dia deficient in many barrels.

[Linked Image]


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops






Woody
#11778325 - 01/28/17 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 16gauge]  
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A close friend of mine is very much into shooting black powder in his lever guns. For all the reasons above he prefers the 44-40 over the 45 Colt. Mainly however the 44-40 seals the action better against the black powder residue and is therefore easier to clean after shooting.
The reason it seals better has to do with the thinner brass and the shoulder. This also makes it more difficult to reload.
He has a 45-90 lever gun and anneals the cases to make them seal better.
As far as accuracy, a couple days ago he shot a coyote through the heart at 200 yards. One Shot!
Today he missed a coyote at 500 yards. Distance was fine but didn't allow for windage. He was resting the rifle on the top rail of the fence.

#11779014 - 01/28/17 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: 16gauge]  
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Frontiersman Offline
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It's cowboy loads that often fail to seal the chamber in a .45.

You are correct, higher pressure loads don't generally have that issue. But we are looking at the comparison to .44-40 not the .44 mag.

As far as using .44-40 brass in the .45. ??? There are more dimensional differences than the neck diameter. Dies won't change the base or rim diameter. As thin as those necks are, I wouldn't care to stretch them.


"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
#11986401 - 04/20/17 Re: .44/40 or 45LC.......? [Re: sharpsguy]  
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Originally Posted by sharpsguy
I have a Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 45 Colt, and a iron framed Uberti Henry in 44-40. Both are accurate and pleasant to shoot, the Henry will easily cut playing cards edgewise offhand at 25 yards. I have in fact killed two crows at 200 yards with the Henry.

On the other hand, if I were to hunt deer and had to choose between the two rifles, I would take the Marlin in 45 colt. Loaded with a 250 grain Keith style bullet and 8.5 grains of Unique, it is a really reliable killer, and will shoot through and through the shoulders of a deer at 100 yards. The other side of the coin is that I once shot a coyote on the shoulder with the 44-40 Henry, and it didn't go all the way through. I just think the 45 Colt is a much more effective cartridge.



Your .44-40 didnt go all the way through a coyote? What kind of load do you use?

This month I shot two red deer hinds with my .44-40 at 75 yards with pure lead bullets over black powder, and didnt get either of the bullets back.

The first thing to solve with a .44-40 is the crimp, and that is best done with a Lee Factory crimp die.

One of the main issues I have had with reloading the .44-40 is regarding the crimp in a levergun. With smokeless loads I couldnt gaurantee that I could keep jacketed or lead bullets from telescoping int he magazine in a Rossi 92, and in a Winchester 73, the lead bullets will do it straight away, as the bullet sI use in that are pure lead soft.

I fixed that by loading bulk load of H4198, and I recommend this load to anyone having the same issues, as it is accruate in both my .44 WCF rifles too, and acheives an appropriate velocity (1350fps)while being safe in a '73 action also.

The other problem I had was bullet seating - for rifles with .429 - .430 size bores (most modern rifles) it is better to use the expander die from a .44 Magnum in order to seat bullets straight.

Also, the thin case mouths of the .44-40 brass can get work hardened and get small splits over time, from the expanding and the Lee factory crimp die. (and especially if your case mouths get dinted on ejection sometimes) Annealing them helps somewhat.

After solving these issues which are particular to the cartridge, loading it is straight forward as any other. Solving the problems was a labour of love really, but I find the .44-40 very rewarding expecially with black powder.

As for cleaning up black powder with a .44-40 - no residue at all in the action. None. Thats with both a '92 action and a '73.

I would like to have a .45 Colt levergun also. I would load it with heavy bullets and push them hard, and turn it into a short version of a .45-75.


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