Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Rebuilding a pre 64

I have some pre 64 Winchester Model 70's and am thinking about using the action of one
of them for a rebarrel and put in an aftermarket stock I have.

Is there any magic in picking an action to use or just grab one of them and go?

Any other suggestions or comments would be welcome before I do this.

I've never had a problem with any pre 64 winchester model 70 rifle. As BobinNH used to say, they were coddled enough at the factory that they always functioned as they were designed. However, the rifles I've had were barely used and shot. Most like new. I've even seen some that were carried a lot and shot a lot that still functioned as designed. I'm not sure I'm completely understanding your question I guess????? I will say that I Prefer an H&H action for damn near any magnum (short or long) build. As per the .473 case rifles, I don't think it really matters. Some prefer the pre war rifles, but if you are going semi-custom that really doesn't matter either. I guess if you have a preference to the 3 position wing safety, you'll want a post war or maybe the transition rifle trips your trigger.... What are you wanting exactly??? Please let us know, this isn't a rhetorical question.... In all honesty, my favorite thing to do is take a good fwt and throw it into a good stock and you are DONE.... Easy and simple, the way I like it...:




It really doesn't get much better than this, for a hunting rifle.. Boy, I'm going to miss this one...

Pick one and go.

EXACTLY. My favorite actions. Very little is needed to make them perfect.

Per my post in the '54 .257 Roberts thread, I sure hate to see good, original rifles messed with. Of course, an aftermarket stock doesn't keep you from hanging onto an original stock, nor even a rebarrel prevent you from hanging onto the original barrel. All that so you can return the rifle back to original should you so desire. It is also true that the more original, the better condition, and the rarer the configuration/chambering, the greater the $ hit you may take by the work you plan. After all the money is spent, you may end up with a less valuable rifle, although it may be a more useful rifle to you. But you could have some parts to sell to offset the cost (insert image of me sobbing here.) Finally, all that is my opinion about your rifles, so that is the end of that conversation, and I will shut up.

From a purely technical standpoint, I assume you are rebarreling to a different chambering. (Unless the original barrel is shot out, you want stainless, or a different contour, a different chambering is usually the reason for a rebarrel.) You will have less trouble with the bolt face, feeding, and extraction issues if you start with an original case close to the configuration of the new case. If you want a magnum, it is easiest to start with a magnum bolt. Obviously, it is virtually impossible to go the other way, i.e. from magnum to non-magnum. It is probably also best if the cartridge lengths are similar. This gets into bolt stop, ejector, magazine follower, and magazine spacer issues. Pre '64's work well because Winchester did what was necessary to make it happen, so there are different parts out there. As someone mentioned on another recent thread, the action rails are cartridge specific on Pre '64's, while much of that is done with magazine box lips on later rifles, even the Classic controlled round feed guns. (I don't know for a fact if this true, but I suspect the person who posted it is correct, or they wouldn't have posted.) I don't have the knowledge and experience to truly get into the details, but I'm sure the information is out there. I suspect you can find a good bit in Rule regarding what parts came with what chambering. Craziest thing I can think of is turning a .22 Hornet into a .375 H&H. That'll keep your gunsmith busy!

As BSA alluded to, if you want really good advice you need to provide more information about what you want and what actions you have to work with.

Hope this helps.

Good post gundoc. I was holding out with a lot of information until we know exactly what he's asking for..... I also totally agree with you about tearing a good rifle apart. It makes me cringe. I know I post a pic of my favorite awesome shooting 338wm built on the H&H action here a lot. That rifle was purpose built by someone else. I don't know the history of the rifle, but I am glad it is what it is and is in my hands now. When I got the rifle, it was a sight for sore eyes. I more or less made it better. Take a look my friend:

Before pics:




After pics:



This 338 is a shooting machine too. Whoever did the work did a damn fine job mechanically, I just had to spruce it up the rest of the way and fine tune a few things. Including the glass bedding... .

Yes, much nicer looking after you spruced it up! And you didn't molest an original. As I mentioned elsewhere, there are already enough that have been messed with, so find one of those to scratch that itch. Again, my opinion only.

For instance, I was just gifted a '50 Standard Rifle, .30-06. I believe what is there to be original, although a pad has been installed, and the rear sight is long gone with a blank in the dovetail. I will drop it into an eBay-acquired original Monte Carlo stock for scope use (also came to me with pad installed), but I will retain and carefully label the original low comb stock, so that I don't mess with the rifle any more than has already occurred. In other words, I am willing to make reversible mods, as long as I maintain the capability to do the "reversing."

Is that a Brown Precision stock on the .338?

Yep, that is a Brown PoundR stock. I really like it. Excellent ergo's and light weight. Seems to be very stiff too....

I should have been clearer with my original post. I am going to take an existing 30-06 standard model and rebarrel it
with a Kreiger and put it in an aftermarket stock. Probably a McMillan. I plan to use the original bottom metal and the
original trigger. My plan is to start with a 24 inch barrel and, if I don't like it for some reason, cut it to 22 inches. I have
not put any thought into the crown and will probably leave that up to the discretion of my gunsmith. I will probably use
the Kreiger # 3 countour which is their medium sporter. I am looking for enough weight to help me with my accuracy
and still not be overweight.

I have several factory long actions I could use which is why I asked the question. I was trying to find out if there was
anything in particular that would make one action better than the other. The featherweight 243 was not under consideration
for this build.

I think you can still maintain a certain amount of accuracy with a #2 (or less) contour, unless you are looking for gilt edged varmint rifle accuracy. Check out the picture of how my 338wm shoots and I believe it's a #2 contour or there abouts. She drives tacks... The original FWT barrels were good shooters too.. This would keep your weight down and make it a more enjoyable carrying rifle.. You'd be damn surprised to see how my 30-06 fwt, 270 fwt and my buddies 308 fwt shoots. It's an eye opener...

Same here. My 7mm Mashburn Super is a #2 Krieger profile. I can't imagine needing more than that. It seems to be very good so far with just FF loads. I'd probably use the same profile for a 338 if I wanted to rebarrel.

I have a pre'64 that the previous owner rebareled in .257 Roberts by Douglass in an original featherweight profile. It shoots just as well as my original .30-06 Featherweight.

That says a lot for how well the original barrels shoot. My 06 is a damn tack driver too..

Rebuild, vs. restore.

This 6.5-284 was originally a pre-64. 243 that had been cut down, barrel and stock. Bought it for $400. A donor, not a collector.

After converting SA to LA, adding a Krieger barrel, Jon Sundra Boyd sporter plus some sweat equity, it's a tack driver.

Rebuilt, not restored.

This one ended up with Borden's Bumps, not usually associated with pre-64's...

Definitely not OEM, just a rebuild, not a restoration...

DF

Nice, looks similar to a JRS stock. Oops, that's right in your description/post... Shoots great too. I love seeing these great shooting old rifles in action..

Questions and comments:
So, you are going to rebarrel in the same chambering, i.e. .30-06?
Assuming so, is the original barrel not sufficiently accurate?, or not for a long string of shots?, or do you want a stainless barrel, or what? Just trying to understand.
I have always thought Standard Pre '64 M70's in chamberings like .30-06 and .270 were a bit heavier than they needed to be, but that's just my opinion. I don't need my .270 to weigh as much as my .300 Win. Mag.
If I had an accurate M70, I wanted to restock, and I wanted more weight for some reason, say to help with "the wobbles" when shooting offhand, I might consider sticking with the original barrel putting some weight in the fore end. That is an unconventional approach for sure, but it would get the job done for less money.

Again, maybe more advice than you wanted, and if so, I apologize. To answer your question, all else being equal, and for the reasons already listed in an earlier post, I would pick the action originally chambered for whatever is closest to the new chambering.

I see from the safety that is a pretty early M70? $400 sounds good to me, even if all you really got from the deal was a clean, solid action.

That is a nice looking laminated stock. A bit too shiny for me, but I love the shape and the color. On my monitor, the color is what I call "Winchester Red." Checkering is very nice as well. I wish Boyds still made the Sundra stock. I am trying to get them to sell me a Platinum model unfinished for a 9.3x62 FN Mauser-actioned project. Long story, but they seem to be having trouble letting me order what I want.

What is the trigger? Interesting trigger bow shape.

I plead ignorance. What are "Borden's Bumps"?

I like your rifle BSA!

Borden's Bumps are bolt sleeves fitted fore and aft on the bolt body, slightly oblong such that the longest measurement runs up and down the action race ways. When the bolt is closed, longest parts of the sleeves are now up and down in the action, fitted for minimal bolt movement. This is more bench rest than hunting rifle technology. But, it doesn't seem to affect field functioning and the gun shoots very tight groups. Recesses were milled into the bolt body, SS barrel cut off pieces were halved, milled to fit the recesses, JB welded in place, milled to spec.

The JRS stock was finished by me using Custom Pro Oil, a tung oil/urethane product from Brownells. The color, Fiebings dark brown leather dye, was applied to the finish NOT the wood. Learned that trick from a master stockmaker. Checkering was done by Errol Case in MO, using a classic Winchester pattern. The stock is pillared, glassed and free floated, Jewell trigger.

You read the safety right, it's a late '40's, early '50's gun, IIRC.

The finish is pretty shiny, but really tough. It wears well. Gun has been hunted a good bit, still looks like it did when completed.

DF

Dirtfarmer,

I was PM'ing you while you were replying.

Did the action come to you with the Borden's Bumps, or did you elect to add them?