Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Care to share some good loads?

Hey guys, new to the AR scene. I'm wanting to know what you run in your AR15's or similar rifles to get the best accuracy. I'm thinking my 1 in 7 twist barrel will like the 69-77gr bullets, but I may be wrong. I kind of skimmed through some of the other threads here and saw some loads posted, so I worked up some loads yesterday ranging from 24-25gr's. of RL15 in R-P brass. I just bought 4000 BR4 primers too since they were a great deal. I'm working with new brass and will shoot today to fireform and get some once fired brass for the rifle. Bought a small base die set, just because. I am running mag box length, and will be about .080" off the lands with this particular rifle. I really don't want to single load the rifle, but may end up doing that in the AR challenge. I'd love to see your target pics, load data that has worked for you and hear your thoughts. Thanks...

I run 24.5 grains of H4895, CCIBR4's in Lapua brass with 75 grain Hornady HPBTs or 77 grains Sierra Tipped Matchkings. I've shot this load out of a bunch of ARs and bolts guns. Always accurate.

My 1:8" twist SPR likes 69-grn SMKs over Varget, loaded as long as I can to still allow mag loading and crimped using Lee factory crimp die.

You may be over-sizing your brass w/ small base dies and I'd never buy them as the 1st option, but would wait until the particular gun/chamber/load told me I may need them. Regardless of die brand/type, I strongly recommend you buy a Wilson chamber gauge or other means/tool to properly setup your sizing die so you're setting the shoulder back no more than ~0.002" from fired brass in your chamber.

Set your charge (then bullet seating length) using Dan Newberry's "Optimal Charge Weight" (OCW) method. It works! I've shot groups at 200Y approaching 1/3 MOA. Have since bought that OnTarget app to measure my shot dispersion (mean radius) and will further develop loads using no less than 10-shot groups.

Have fun!

Awesome, thanks Scotty!! I have some H4895 in the cabinet.... About ready to head off, we'll see what happens.

Thanks buddy. Good suggestions...

The tool you want to buy for measuring brass & setting up your die is an RCBS Precision Mic; I usually set the brass to it's fired size minus .003" for any specific gun. If sizing for non-specific gun & ammo to be used in any gun, I size to min HS dimension (zero on the Precision Mic; Go-gauge dimension) minus .003-.004".

With 69, 75 & 77 gr bullets, my preferred powder is AR-Comp with MR-2000 & XBR-8208 as a very close second; all flow much better than Varget or RL-15, but those are good choices as well. For lighter bullets, I'll use the 8208 or H4895 for the most part.

No real need in most cases for a small base die, but if you have it, use it.

MM

+1 on the OCW for load development.
2nd on the no need for small base dies. You are just overworking the brass.


In my 18", 1:8 twist, Wilson barrel, my best results with 77 gr. SMKs at mag length, L.C. brass, CCI 450 primers:

8208-XBR - 23.4 gr.
H4895 - 24.1 gr.
RL-15 - 24.7 gr.
TAC - 23.8 gr.
Varget - 23.9 gr.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the info. I bought the small base die set yesterday. I have not tried to re-size any brass with it yet. Is is possible to just do a PFL sizing for an AR. That is generally what I do with my bolt action rifles and get excellent accuracy. The reason I bought the small base die set is because my buddies say that's what they use. I want this one to be very reliable with no hang-ups. Thus far after shooting it at the range, I am tickled pink. Everything went exceptionally well. I will say that I believe the rifle shoots better than I do. I'll post some target pics later. All is looking good though, considering I was using brand new brass that was already primed with CCI400's that I was going to be using in my bolt rifle. I scored on a bunch of BR4's that I'll be using in this once fired brass next go around. This rifle is exactly what I was looking for and at a price I couldn't pass up. I think I'll be happy with it. Thanks for the response to my questions.

Small base dies and partial full length sizing is all backwards for the application. You do need to bump the shoulders back slightly, but you do not need to work the body of the case so much with small base dies, unless you have a really tight match chamber.

That make a lot of sense yondering. Thanks... I will not use the small base die. Looks like the RCBS presision mic is a good thing to consider. I've been wanting to give one of those a try as well. I've used the case gauges before too. Nifty little tools. I appreciate the comments..

High Power Service Rifle competitor Glen Zediker has had a running series of articles sponsored by Midsouth Shooters with some good tips and information on loading accurate AR ammo, primarily for service rifle application but applicable to other types.
It is basically one of his books, presented in parts.
If you sign up for Midsouth's email list, they come out about twice a month. The back issues are available.
A lot of it I was already doing but I have picked up a few useful tips.

Here is the latest one with links to the older ones at the bottom of the article.

Zediker Blog

Thanks for the link Steve. Looks like some great advice. I've never really thought about deburing the inside of the flash hole before, but he makes a great point... Looks like that guy know's his stuff... I'll be reading more of his articles..

I like the 62 gr barnes. Not a long range bullet but it kills cshit out of pigs!!

+1 I have not loaded it in a while but ww cases federal primers maximum load of TAC for the 5.56 chamber and the 62 grain tsx or ttsx. It kills deer no problem. I got into hunting with a 6.8 so I have not loaded this in a while.

I use the same dies for the AR as the bolt guns. Never used a SB resize die. Size them like you would for your bolt guns and ensure function as you would for any rifle. I push a little more for the ARs but not much much BSA. You won't have any troubles making it shoot.

Thanks Scotty. I appreciate that.

Thanks Scotty. I appreciate that. I know it sounds weird, but I pulled the adjustment ring off of my SB sizing die, so I don't accidentally use it. I also have damn near 2000 pieces of sized and primed brass that I have for my bolt gun, I mocked up some dummy rounds and tried this brass and every brand I have chambers just fine. That brass was FL sized to fit 2 of my .223 rem rifles. I'll try some of that brass and see how she works/shoots, but as of now it looks like PMC, FC, R-P and W/W load and function through the rifle just fine. I've been finding a chit load of FC brass here lately at the range (must be on sale somewhere), also the PMC. I was reading through some of the threads and see that some of you guys don't like FC, I'm wondering why since LC is made by Federal and most of you love that stuff???????? I may load some up and find out why some of you guys don't like FC. I also bought a inside flash hole deburing tool, 10 round mags (for easier shooting with bags or front rest off of bench). Also looking at the accu wedge. Not that my receivers are loose, but they wiggle like most AR's. I've heard the accu wedge helps a little to better accuracy. I also stumbled across some 68gr. Horndady BTSP match grade pills I want to try. Hopefully those aren't obsolete now, because if they work good, I'll probably buy more of those since they are cheaper than sierra's...

Dang jimmy, I was hoping you would have more info. I was also looking for Rost to show up and maybe even certifiable. Some of the other guys that shot really well in the AR challenge!!!!!!!! I'm looking to make the best out of this thing and hopefully the next time at the range I won't be dealing with 25+ mph winds. When the wind starts pushing at my back and shaking my target stand back and forth, it's time to give up on groups!!!!!

LC is a different spec brass than standard FC stamped. I think the jury is still out on the newer
LC / FC stamped brass & I have a lot of it loaded so time will tell.

The regular commercial FC stuff has primer pockets that open up much faster than most other brands............I generally reload it once & then generally pitch it, unless you want to waste primers with they just fall in on some of the brass.



I used to deburr all the flash holes on many of my bolt guns............came to the conclusion that unless you have 1/4" gun, you'll never find the difference that performing that function makes on the target.

But if it makes you feel better, then it's only time & it surely doesn't hurt anything.

MM

Thanks MM. I read through the articles (that NVhunter told me about) that were posted and they seem to be quite interesting. I also looked inside the cases that I pulled the bullets out of, that I will load more 25 and 25.2gr charge wt's and noticed some rough looking flash holes that were not consistent. Some looked pretty crappy where I could barely see the primer cup and others I could see just fine. I figured I'd lightly touch those up the next time I prep those pieces and them throw in some of those BR4's i recently picked up. I figure its all the little things that add up in the end. Just like the accu wedge I am going to buy for the rifle... Again, it's a big experiment to me. I'll try some of your suggestions and then see if it helps. The main thing here is getting my 1.73 moa. average down to around 1-1.25 moa. in the AR challenge....Then I'll be happy...

The biggest gain in loading accurate ammo comes from neck sorting your brass and checking concentricity on your loaded rounds.
If you go back to those Glen Zediker articles you will see that he covers that first.
I agree with MM that deburring flash holes will probably not provide a noticible benefit in accuracy unless you have a precision match rifle.
You mentioned earlier that you have a chrome lined barrel. Chrome lining is done to extend barrel life and many believe that because the chrome plating isn't uniform throughout the bore it has a negative impact on accuracy. I don't have any CL barrels so I can't say from personal experience, however match barrels tend to be stainless steel over other types.

I saw the biggest improvement in the accuracy of my reloads after I started sorting necks and checking concentricity. If the round isn't straight and centered in the chamber, you won't get top accuracy.

Good luck with your efforts. It sounds like you are having fun and that's what counts.

Thanks buddy. Concentricity was the first thing I checked after loading a few rounds for this rifle. I do that with every new seater I buy. Set the die for minimal run-out. Every loaded cartridge I checked was at .002" or under... Most around .001" and slightly under... I'm not new to loading cartridges, just new to the AR scene... I have also loaded for some semi-automatic rifles too, but this is the first AR. Looking for others opinions and thoughts. I appreciate the replies so far..... Thanks buddy..

Damn, I wish I had more time in a couple weeks when I'm in Nevada. My dad is wanting me to go shooting at his range!!!!!!!!!!

For the average shooter, the negatives of chrome lines barrels are blown out of proportion. I have several, and everyone shoots lights out. Of course they were good barrels to begin with, and the lining was done by outfits that know what they are doing. Your top match barrels will not be chrome lined, but few AR's are intended for top level match use.

24gr of TAC with the new 73gr ELD has been good.

24.5gr-25gr of RL-15 or Varget is good with the 69gr SMK.

I like H335 because it shoots well and meters well.

If you can handle reading the way Zediker writes he has had some good decent info over the years.

Oh yeah, no small base ever used on my stuff.

Case mic for sure.

69s varget, LC case, 25.5 , Varget LOVES BR-4s. Thats a load if it doesn't shoot there is a gun issue IMHO.

75 bthps 24.2 RL 15, R 7.5 in LC case.

All my other loads are specialty loads with N540 ish powder..whhich I don't give out since they are warm....

I do shoot a 60 Sierra but don't recall the load, it was surplus ball powder... similar to H380.

4895 always got to much pressure before it got to speed for me.

Other than that have not used any newer powders other than TAC. 24.2 IIIRC, LC case, 77 SMK, CCI M41? Primer.

Im so unfortunate .... midsouth is 3 miles down the road from the house, they have lots of good chit ... in their often buying stuff but have to pay tn sales tax. Oh well.

50gr VMax and 23.8gr of IMR 3031 works well in my RRA.

I haven't gotten around to loading the heavies for my 6, but that is next in the que for R&D.

M1919

Thanks for the comments and suggestions guys. I appreciate it tremendously, especially the part about not using the SB sizing die. I may actually pull that one out and hide it somewhere so I never use it, even though I pulled the lock ring off of it ha ha... So now I'm loading for 2 AR's and FL sized my brass, I'll eventually get a precision MIC (bid on one on ebay), that way I'm minimally sizing my brass and working it less. As of now though I'm getting decent groups. Here's how the rifle I bought yesterday is shooting with my loads:




I think I'm narrowing it down to this charge wt. though:


We'll see with a little more trigger time..

Its getting there

Thanks rost, I always appreciate your comments... I'm trying to work on it buddy. Most importantly is my unfamiliarity of shooting these gas guns. It's been a learning experience and I have a ways to go yet.. I have a few buddies that are retired USMC vets (vietnam era mostly), including a gunny Sarge from Quantico, next time at the club, I'm going to see if they can help me out with my shooting. It seems weird, but when shooting I feel like I'm questioning myself on things like how to grip the pistol grip, how solid of a cheek weld do I need? How fast should I fire the string? Then I'm forgetting about my breathing and then trying to focus on trigger control. I'm used to pulling a bolt gun in tight (no free recoil because I shoot too much big cartridge/magnum rifles) and these are a different animal..

I have an awesome load I worked up for my bolt action, using that powder and 53gr. V-max bullets. Any of you guys think that combo would work well in an AR?? I was just a little leery about using H335 because of some of the issues I've been hearing about with it being unstable. Or is that just a vicious rumor?? I love the way it meters as well. My powder measure dumps very accurate charges with the stuff..

Thanks rost, I'm going to be picking up some varget. It's been so long since I've used the stuff, does it meter better than RL15??? Thanks..

Not Rost, but no, it does not meter better than RL-15; also, it's a bit bulkier in the case as well. RL-15 is not a great metering powder either, but easy to notice the improvement over Varget.

One of the main reasons that I've gone to other alternatives as well as the fact that Varget doesn't get you to the velocity of some other powders before pressure gets higher than I want to be.

MM

Thanks MM, that is a help my friend..

They all make an accurate load, I just defer to the ones that are easier to load. In the 308 case I am more tolerant of RL15 and Varget, just a pain in the 223.

I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch over Varget & Re15's relatively poor metering. Those are probably the 2 winningest powders in rifle competition. If I was a betting man and we could verify it, I'd bet that between those 2 they have more wins than all other powders combined. 4895 would be the only thing even close and that's ancient history.

Barry, that is interesting to know. Thanks for your input...

AR Comp is the way to go to "replace" those two powders in the AR platform.

Ancient history; time to move on. AR Comp, 8208, TAC, MR-2000 will all do at least as well at a minimum & are all easier to load.

MM

8208 might be the next thing, and I like AR Comp, but it doesn't seem to be catching on. TAC has never really caught on and I don't think MR-2000 will either.

Alright MM, your best suggestion for the best powder to use in a powder measure (no muss no fuss easy dropping powder like H335), that will produce the most consistently accurate loads using 68+ grain bullets? Thanks... Anyone else please feel free to answer this question as well. Currently, I'm dropping RL15 with no problems. Seems to be pretty accurate from my powder measure. I'm also going against the grain and going to try some FC range pick-up brass. We'll see how long those primer pockets hold up. I've had problems with other chamberings, using FC brass, but this brass doesn't look bad and all the pockets were very tight for their first loading. We'll see how that turns out over time..

I've given you the powders; I'm sure you would rather work up your own loads for your guns than use mine.

What I will tell you is that AR Comp is a re-formulated version of RL-15 to make it more temp stable & during that conversion the burn rate has turned out to be a tad faster; powder granules are also smaller & darker.

In the order of flowability (through a Redding 3BR), MR-2000 is the finest powder from a grain size & flows the best, followed by 8208 & then AR Comp; all flow better than RL-15 or Varget & all fill the case to a lower level as well. All 3, on my scale, don't vary more than a 1/10th of a grain.

RL-15 is fine & a very good powder, & I use it in several bolt guns; Varget is very good & I use it occasionally in a 7-08 with certain bullets, but in a 5.56 case, it's just too bulky, especially with 77 grain bullets.

Do your testing & make up your own mind.

MM

Thanks MM. That is helpful info. Much appreciated.. I'll be on the lookout for AR comp and 8208. I'll see what kind of availability we have around here locally.. As per always, I'm not looking for exact load data, as I always work up and reference book data as well as use my trusty chrono... .. The info about what works well in the AR and the small .223 rem case and flows through a powder measure is what I'm mainly looking for. Thanks buddy..

Thanks DD. I didn't see your post from yesterday. Much appreciated...

I just checked the local stores around here and no luck on AR comp or 8208. I'm heading to reno on Thursday, maybe I'll hit a few stores there and see what I find. Thanks again for the help...

Alright, I found some AR comp in Reno. I'll load some up and see how she goes... Powder granule size looks great (smaller than RL15). As you guys said, should meter better. I'm hoping I get the accuracy I'm looking for too...