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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
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I thought the NYT said the market would crash immediately after a Trump win? Stock market will rise 50 percent, esteemed economist says By Jonathon Trugman June 4, 2017 | 2:04am Modal Trigger Stock market will rise 50 percent, esteemed economist says
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What we know about Swiss National Bank's investment in US stocks It’s not very often that a Nobel Prize-winning economist who is known for his bearish calls turns extremely bullish.
Last week, professor Robert Shiller of Yale, who called the housing collapse 10 years ago, proclaimed that stocks could rise another 50 percent in the next few years based upon his latest research. Meaning Dow 30,000!
That got the attention of many folks, especially the Wall Street analysts, many of whom don’t understand this market.
Shiller accurately saw the housing bubble and predicted that it would end very badly, as it did. He also co-developed the S&P/Case-Shiller index, which is a benchmark to measuring housing prices around major US cities.
What many may not know is that in the 1990s he developed a stock price measurement ratio called the cyclically adjusted price-to-earnings (CAPE) ratio for stock valuations.
The CAPE ratio measures stock prices in relation to long-term earnings and inflation. At current levels, Shiller’s own CAPE ratio is not flashing a buying opportunity, which makes his call even more interesting.
In fact, based on his CAPE ratio, stock prices are actually high right now. However, like many of the other ratios out there in academia and on Wall Street, interest rates are not weighted in it.
In fact, Shiller pointed out that the CAPE ratio he trusts is actually expensive now at 29. Its average is 17.
“I would say, have some stocks in your portfolio. It could go up 50 percent from here. That’s what it did around 2000 — after it reached this level, it went up another 50 percent.”
In 2000 the economy was about 12 months away from the top of the internet bubble, which also ended badly.
The key to Shiller’s call is President Trump’s tax policy. “If factors go right and there are tax cuts for corporations, it’s not that hard to understand.”
So making a great short call followed up a decade later by a great long call would give Shiller an A+ in my book. And make investors a pretty penny along the way.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,631 Likes: 2 |
JAYSUS SAVES!....
But Moses INVESTS..
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,610 |
I wouldn't be buying anything right now. The market has pretty much been going straight up for 7 months and that never lasts. The fact that nearly nobody thinks the market can go down worries me and makes me think we will see some kind of correction that surprises everyone. We're in the normal seasonal top (sell in May and go away) and every article I read tells me why "this time is different..." One thing I've learned is when everyone says this time is different, it usually isn't LOL. I just cashed out of my small position. I had 30k at work and made about 6k profit on it. Probably look to get back in during the normal seasonal low around September October time frame.
Last edited by OutlawPatriot; 06/05/17.
"Hey jackass, get your government off my freedom." MOLON LABE
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,696 Likes: 23 |
It will fall too. Sooner or later...
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: May 2004
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2004
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No reason to be afraid. I just bought some stuff last week.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,610 |
I really hope you have the best of luck with that. My problem is when they stop talking about "buy low, sell high" and start rationalizing "buy high, sell higher", it's almost over.
"Hey jackass, get your government off my freedom." MOLON LABE
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,373 Likes: 2 |
Get in, stay in, keep 15% - 20% in cash. When the market tanks, you use the cash to buy now that things are "on sale" and ride it back up and recoup your losses + some. Works best when you start young.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Posts: 7,578
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578 |
Well it took me a little time to find the original article because it appeared in the NY Post rather than the times. What Shiller said is that it could go up 50% because that is what the market did in the last 6 months prior to the 2000 peak--which was followed by crash of the DJIA going from 16,700 to 10,300. Shiller's quote is not historically accurate, by the way, based on the DJIA.
If you are buying US equities now, you have got to be thinking market timing, rather than long term investing in an under-priced asset class
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,610 |
Well it took me a little time to find the original article because it appeared in the NY Post rather than the times. What Shiller said is that it could go up 50% because that is what the market did in the last 6 months prior to the 2000 peak--which was followed by crash of the DJIA going from 16,700 to 10,300. Shiller's quote is not historically accurate, by the way, based on the DJIA.
If you are buying US equities now, you have got to be thinking market timing, rather than long term investing in an under-priced asset class He's basically saying that a market in a bubble CAN go up longer than people expect. But to me, that's playing chicken.
"Hey jackass, get your government off my freedom." MOLON LABE
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,150
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2001
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I suspect the only thing less advisable than giving financial advice is taking it.
Particularly from a group of ideologues of any stripe.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,150
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,150 |
I suspect the only thing less advisable than giving financial advice is taking it.
Particularly from a group of ideologues of any stripe.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,775 Likes: 4 |
So, how many times did the fed head say she would raise interest rates in order to crash the Trump economy, and did the author factor that in-yet?
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Posts: 26,337
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
buy, buy, buy. there's always a greater fool out there somewheres..until there's not.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
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My barber hasn't started talking to me about investing in stocks, so we're not at the top, yet....
Stocks aren't cheap right now, but I don't see a long term pull back yet. Short term, sure, absolutely, but timing those is a fool's errand.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,758 Likes: 7 |
Get in, stay in, keep 15% - 20% in cash. When the market tanks, you use the cash to buy now that things are "on sale" and ride it back up and recoup your losses + some. Works best when you start young. Bingo.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Posts: 6,519
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,519 |
Well it took me a little time to find the original article because it appeared in the NY Post rather than the times. What Shiller said is that it could go up 50% because that is what the market did in the last 6 months prior to the 2000 peak--which was followed by crash of the DJIA going from 16,700 to 10,300. Shiller's quote is not historically accurate, by the way, based on the DJIA.
If you are buying US equities now, you have got to be thinking market timing, rather than long term investing in an under-priced asset class He's basically saying that a market in a bubble CAN go up longer than people expect. But to me, that's playing chicken. That's why you set triggers.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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buy high, sell low, lose money on every transaction but make up for it in volume.
My diploma is a DD214
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Posts: 8,322
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'd just go long on pork bellies, you never loose on those. Everyone loves bacon!
"Life is tough, even tougher if your stupid" John Wayne
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,610
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
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I'd just go long on pork bellies, you never loose on those. Everyone loves bacon! Now THERE'S an investment I can't endorse.
"Hey jackass, get your government off my freedom." MOLON LABE
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2009
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If you don't know what you are doing, let me recommend someone who has really helped me and my investing strategy. When the student is ready, the teacher will come. Rida Morwa
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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