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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
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Also - some of you guys apparently should look up the definition of "obsolete".
Something can work just as well as it always did, and still be obsolete. Think about that, before responding emotionally about your favorite pistol.
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,915 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,915 Likes: 7 |
I really like my 1911, but have better carry guns. I keep thinking of a lw commander in 38 super, but other than width, the G19 still wins.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664 |
One man's obsolescence is can be another man's proper choice. I have a SIG p220, a Remington R1 1911, a Browning Hi
Power, and a Ruger LCP. I carry the LCP because I'm lazy. I will choose the P220 over the other two because it works better for me, and the Hi Power over the R1 because I shoot it better. 3 out of 4 are obsolete by some standards but not for me. I don't consider my 357 mag K frame Smiths obsolete.
The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,346 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,346 Likes: 1 |
Yes, nice guns but unless you have no trigger discipline at all a striker fired 45 will do the same thing.
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,284
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,284 |
I wouldn't carry a striker fired pistol if it was given to me. I carry a Colt Commander just about every day and if I need more concealment I have an Officer's model that I use.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went"
Will Rogers
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
I think so. It's not that anything changed about the 1911, it's as good as it ever was; it's that other guns have improved, and there are much better fighting pistols available now. If it's a carry gun, it needs to be a fighting gun, not a target pistol or nostalgia piece. Those who think they don't need to carry a fighting pistol (cause they'll just shoot the bad guy), just don't know what they don't know; they're preparing for a specific gunfight scenario, not just whatever might happen.
I shoot a 1911 better than a lot of other guns too, and don't mind the weight or dressing around it, but I also don't think it's the best choice in pistols I can make when I start the day. I'm not Superman, so I'll take all the advantages I can get, thanks.
The slide safety, grip safety, and single stack mag are all handicaps in a fighting gun IMO, and here are examples why.
- In my training group we've seen die hard 1911 guys forget to flip the safety off under pressure; the same guys who said "I practice that, so it'll never happen to me".
- The grip safety can prevent the gun firing in an awkward grip, for example grabbing it left handed from a right hand holster in a grapple with someone, so that the gun is held upside down and fired with the pinky. I can and have fired my carry gun that way in training, but a 1911 or other pistols with grip safeties often won't fire. At that moment it's a shiny brick, not a pistol.
- The single stack mag is a detriment when so many attacks involve more than one bad guy. We can choose a double stack 1911, but the first two issues remain.
I don't feel unarmed with only a 1911, and do like them still, but would be deluding myself if I thought it was the best carry pistol I could choose. Absolutely How many people would use a Model T ford for a daily driver?
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096 |
good tools are never obsolete... There it is!
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,540 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
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IMO the measure of 'shootability' is what you can do shooting one-handed at 25-50 yards. A good 1911 excels at this in capable hands and has no flies on it a a CQB weapon.
When set-up properly and fed good ammo, it is as reliable as anything out there.
Double stack 1911s are available for those who value that characteristic.
The 1911's only disadvantage is that good examples sell for about twice what a plastic pistol costs.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,311 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,311 Likes: 5 |
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,373 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,373 Likes: 21 |
good tools are never obsolete... ^^^This^^^ I still carry one quite often at the Ranch. And no other handgun fits my hand as well or points as good for me, either. And I shoot them Very well, too.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612 |
For the most part, yes they are. There are more compact, lighter guns that carry more ammo....and cost less.
Obsolete doesn't mean useless.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,866
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,866 |
Does not 'obsolete' indicate "no longer used"?
Obviously, lots of (old!) guys still use the 1911 as a carry piece so it can't be obsolete.
I've got a nice LW Cmmander...it doesn't get carried for SD. Period.
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Stupidity has no average...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,659 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,659 Likes: 1 |
For the most part, yes they are. There are more compact, lighter guns that carry more ammo....and cost less.
And why exactly does that mean that the 1911 is "obsolete"? What you cited as reasons are just characteristics of personal preference. MM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
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good tools are never obsolete... There it is! Sure they are. I have an excellent quality miter box passed down to me from my wife's grandfather. It uses a hand saw that is still sharp, and was a high-end carpenter's tool when it was made. It's obsolete now, obviously, because newer tools do a better job for anyone using them seriously. As a carry pistol, the 1911 fits that description as well. For me that doesn't mean I don't like them, or don't see their attributes; it just means I'm not emotionally attached to a particular design, and will use the best tool available.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,950 Likes: 21
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,950 Likes: 21 |
It's obsolete now, obviously, because newer tools do a better job for anyone using them seriously. I think you meant to say 'faster', rather than 'better'...... I still install recessed door pulls with a brace and bit. And not because a cordless drill is 'better' (and a Yankee screwdriver never has dead batteries)..... And if YOU took the time to learn that old miter box, the joints it will produce will rival one of them fancy-smancy sliding miter saws......
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612 |
For the most part, yes they are. There are more compact, lighter guns that carry more ammo....and cost less.
And why exactly does that mean that the 1911 is "obsolete"? What you cited as reasons are just characteristics of personal preference. MM Alright then....
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,890
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,890 |
Some things are "obsolete" or (more precisely) outmoded by fashion -- thumb safeties, grip safeties, mag release type, etc.
Handguns are a mature product and it would be difficult to argue that any particular LEO would be significantly handicapped were he forced to carry a 1911.
On the other hand, it's impossible to argue that "state of the art" pistols can't be made much lighter, smaller, simpler and of higher capacity than the early 20th century designs.
Last edited by night_owl; 06/09/17.
abusus non tollit usum
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
It's obsolete now, obviously, because newer tools do a better job for anyone using them seriously. I think you meant to say 'faster', rather than 'better'...... I still install recessed door pulls with a brace and bit. And not because a cordless drill is 'better' (and a Yankee screwdriver never has dead batteries)..... And if YOU took the time to learn that old miter box, the joints it will produce will rival one of them fancy-smancy sliding miter saws...... No, I meant better. Faster is part of it, but cleaner cuts, just as accurate or more so, etc with the newer tools. I full well know how to use the old one, but there's nothing better about it. I learned woodworking and drafting with all manual tools, the old way, but have no reason to deny that the newer stuff really is better. Face it, sometimes old stuff really is old and obsolete, whether it's tools, pistols (which are tools to me, not sentimental trinkets), or whatever. Sometimes they're not, but just because something is old is no reason to think it's better somehow.
Last edited by Yondering; 06/09/17.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,346 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,346 Likes: 1 |
My stainless 1911 gun in black leather holster looks good on my medline steel emerald green rollator walker. The chicks at the assisted living home all dig me cause I am bad.  I would want a 1911 in a hunting gun for the trigger but no more in a carry gun. I am used to striker fired pistols.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,275 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,275 Likes: 2 |
A lot happened in the year 1911.
This is 2017 with all the technology advances and 106 years of history.
If you type in only 1 9 1 1 in a Google search you get dozens and dozens of pages about some gun that was named that year.
Must be something to it.
I think I will get one.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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