Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Meet the fauX

A couple people I respect around here turned me onto the notion of a 6.5 SAUM; I'd been looking for my next build and that one lit me up. When I started researching it it saw the ginormous threads about the 6.5 GAP 4s (GAP's adoption of the cartridge) and that really fueled the fires.

My builds up to now had involved duping Remington barrel profiles so I could stay within the "drop-in" realm with stocks etc. I wanted to try something different, but that got into questions about balance and so on that I wouldn't know the answer to until I built the thing, which would then be too late to do much about... . So, I decided to shamelessly clone the GAP Extreme Hunter. I've never heard a bad word about those rifles and have read lots of raves. So, I named it (her) the FauXtreme Hunter, or fauX for short.

I bought a completely bare M700 short action from Bud's (not even a bolt) as my starting point. My thumbnail estimates had this route coming out about the same as buying a donor rifle then tossing all the stuff I didn't want, plus, I got a PTG bolt out of it. All the little parts- pins, bolt stop, bolt innards, etc drove the price up a bit higher than I'd thought but it was still roughly the same as starting with a donor rifle.

M700 stainless SA
PTG fluted one-piece bolt
PTG M16 style extractor
Manners SL stock with GAP camo
Bartlien #3 fluted stainless
Holland comp lug
PTG shroud and "hi speed" pin assembly
APA RTG bottom metal for AICS mags
I made a stainless bolt knob for it

I did all the smithing. Runout at the throat/rifling intersection point is under .0002" (two ten-thousandths) measured. The only difference between it and the GAP rifle is I didn't brake it, and of course they are using an aftermarket action.

She's still going to get a Timney Calvin Elite trigger. Currently has my best Walker trigger set under 2 lbs pull.

Using 6.5 GAP headstamped brass and 140 ELDM's she's crazy accurate. Balance is superb. Recoil is no biggie. The Manners SL is awesome- I'm already plotting a Mountain-weight build using one.

I'm in love.

Thanks to the guys who recco'd the 6.5 SAUM- you know who you are. Great call guys.

I can't say enough about how great the folks at GAP have been. If you can afford one of these from them, DO IT! Nuff said.

Here she is a couple days ago, getting set to hike in a couple new plates at my LR spot.

The shiny thing (other than the rifle itself, I haven beadblasted it yet) is a prototype replacement top-ring I made to fit Talley's... I had hoped to maybe sell them but it appears ITAR will make that too odious an endeavor... still working on that though. Got emails in to BATF and the agency that adminsters ITAR. Ugh.

Yesssssss. Very nice. Barrel length?

I like the looks of that. I have toyed with the idea of converting my Savage to the 6.5 SAUM.

Barrel length is 24".

6.5 SAUM is like a 6.5 Creed... only better!

If you use a M700 SA I'd suggest using the GAP spec'd reamer. It keeps the COAL short even with the long heavy bullets.

https://www.grizzly.com/products/6-...Turn-Neck-2962/T26771?utm_campaign=zPage

Nice rifle. PM sent with some extra questions.

Looks great - congrats on the build! Looks like you made it out to shoot before the weather went to heck again, been raining like crazy today

Yeah- got a lot of outdoors stuff done earlier this week cause I could see this storm coming! Hells bells man-I lit the woodstove today!

Edit: We should find out about tags here soon... hoping for Steens again (duh) but my 2nd choice is High Cascade... I'll be packing this rifle either way, but I REALLY built it for antelope... burned my 15 points this year, hopefully.

I did some load workups at 100 yards, which didn't take much doing as H1000 and 140 ELDM's agreed with the rifle, then took it to my LR spot... first shot at 600 yards, 10" steel plate..... WHAP! Same with the 2nd... 3rd... Gotta love that.

Supposedly, if you follow the GAP recipe (H1000, moderate-pressure loads) these have very long barrel life. We shall see! Now that I have the reamer I'm plotting a mountain-style build, blind mag, 22"-23" barrel, profile in the realm of a Rem Sporter... it just never ends...

Very nice Jeff.

What kind if velocity dies that 6.5 Shamu get with 140g slugs? How much powder?

Thanks Brad! Was a trip building from TOTAL scratch like that. I now know a M700 pretty dang well.

Jk16, in theory a 6.5 SAUM can drive 140's over 3200 fps. What George @ GAP found is that if you keep pressure moderate and fill 'er up with H1000 you can get ~ 2k round barrel life and superb accuracy; so it's about like a hot-loaded 6.5-.284... but with 2x the barrel life... is the story. Anyway, I'm running 60 grains H1000 and it should be about 3050 fps. Have not run it over my Chrony.

So, basically , its a 6.5- 06 in a short action..

Couldn't say; but I'll take your word for it. I've not played with a 6.5-06.

I'm a sucker for short actions. Plus, headstamped brass is kinda nice. Hornady makes 6.5 GAP 4s brass for GAP.

Couple thoughts on that front- with the AICS/DBM setup like this uses, a guy can get over 3" of COAL in a M700 SA... or, it's easy to get 2.925" with a Wyatt's WSM box. In either case it eliminates the only real knock on a short action with long bullets, which is COAL limits.

Well the 6.5-06 is lretty well documented..I just was not familiar with the 6.5 Shamwow ..

Looks like a neat rifle/cartridge combo. Whats the all up weight as pictured above?

What does it weigh?

Sweet rig, Jeff! Was curious on weight as well?

I could like that. A lot.

Great article in April Handloader by Rick Jamison. Pretty impressive velocities. Jeff, what is your COAL? powdr

Powdr, well, ironically (since I'm running the DBM and have miles of COAL), I'm at 2.820" with the 140 ELDM. That's right up at the lands. That's because I used the GAP-spec reamer I linked to; it has a short throat for that exact reason.

I'd gladly lend that reamer & gauges out by the way if any of you guys get a wild hair...

Weight... hmmm... we'll, it's whatever a GAP Extreme Hunter weighs <g>... I want to say with the 20 oz NF SHV in Talleys it's 9 lbs, because I seem to remember running across someone with the 2.5-10x42 NXS on one, saying so. I don't have a scale. I'll see if I can find that link.

He says 9 lbs here. He later switched it to the 42mm version of the scope.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/new-gap-extreme-hunter-6-5-saum-112973/index2.html

Looks like a keeper rifle, for sure. Very nice!



How does this fluted barrel compare to the Rem factory barrels in weight and balance? Is it slightly more muzzle heavy?

Yeah, the balance is pretty divine- one big reason I just copied a well-respected rifle builder's recipe! Slightly muzzle heavy at the front action screw.

The Bart # 3 is heavier than a Rem magnum profile and lighter than a Rem Sendero barrel... I'll try to quantify that better with some numbers. In the Manners SL stock, it's perfect.

I'm also pretty naive about high-end stocks; just haven't owned any and have only handled a few McMillans. . I do own multiple 'glass stocks from HS and B&C and they are nice; the Manners is in another category, which it should be at almost 2x the price I guess. It feels more refined and lively than the McMillans I've handled. The grip area is perfection incarnate for my hand/wrist position from prone. The slightly beefed up fore-end is likewise great from a rest or bipod. I'd build on this stock again in a second- I really like it.

It's almost like GAP and Manners know a thing or two!

Well done! If my kids didn't keep me broke, I'd like a sporter weight rife in that chambering. I'd consider building it off a Win WSM action as they can be had pretty reasonably, have more mag space, and all my other "serious" rifles have a 3pos wing safety.

PS- For the dough you have in that rifle you could have taken one of your others on one heck of a hunt!

Can't think of much not to love there man!

Ha!

You are like this tangible voice in my conscience, I kid you not.

(Pointer has been, correctly I might add, making that point for YEARS...)

It was not a cheap build. Over $2k in parts. Point conceded. I'll stop building rifles... after the next one... haha... and I hear you on the kids. My oldest graduates college in a few days... youngest will be a sophomore in college next year... we live in fear of texts from them <grin>...



Actually, what I've been trying to do, is to start looking at rifles as a barrel-holding chassis, and so I'm putting my main "chassis" together in a high-quality fashion, which is expensive the first time, but after THAT since I own the reamers and go/no go's and do my own work, they are just a ~$500 barrel away from being reborn... so far I have my heavy 7 WSM and this rifle built to that standard. That one has GOT to be reaching the end of that (superb) Pac-Nor barrel, I mean it's over 1500 rounds at this point, but it's putting 180 ELDM's into tiny groups so who am I to argue... but when it finally pukes I can just spin a new barrel onto that particular collection of parts for relatively cheap. Same now with the fauX. My Kimber 7 WSM was a worthy chassis right from the factory... but it's also getting up there in round count, though it's still also shooting lights-out (Pac Nor has really impressed me the last 2 barrels).... however I can't help but think what a KILLER package a 6.5 SAUM Kimber Montana would be. A nice drop down in recoil but essentially the same flight ballistics as a 7 WSM... and so it goes....

I had a Kimber MT 300WSM that I got used for a very good price with the intent to rebarrel it to the 6.5 4S. I ended up selling it to help defray the cost of drawing two limited entry tags in Idaho that year...

Might still go that route someday. Until then, I'll just take the clunker(s) I have after elk and mule deer in Montana this fall.

I wouldn't go that far

The 180 ELD at 3000fps still outpaces the 147 ELD at 3075fps, albeit at the cost of additional recoil.

Rifle looks great. You should make a dupe for me to shoot in next year's match season

I almost added a disclaimer about the 180 ELD-M. For those that don't know, it is a game changer with a G1 BC of .796... yeah.... Just came out, though Midway released a bunch of 2nds incognito a few months ago. I've been shooting those in my heavy 7 WSM and they are awesome.

180's in a Kimber might be a bit much for me as far as recoil. My rifle loves the 162's and I haven't even tried the 180 in it. Guess I should. But, since it's a pure hunting rifle, I'm more inclined to "almost" match the best 7mm flight ballistics, with say the 6.5 147 ELDM, but at a significant drop in recoil.

Mr. Gardner @ GAP has sure done well in matches with the Xtreme Hunter! I can see why. The Manners SL is just a superb stock from prone.

Yup. Gotta be the stock....

You just point it in the general direction and let 'er rip and the dang thing takes care of the rest!

Helluva stock.

What type of layup is the stock -does it have the Carbon Fiber option?

What does the stock weigh?

Probably won't make 3000 without tearing up brass but I'm liking the 180's , tough choice between the 7 mag and 6.5 Saum there both a lot of fun!

Tell me about that rifle Ackleyman.

It"s a Borden Timberline in a MCM Classic with a Bartlein 8.2 twisted 2b @24"
Metal work done by. Jon Addis of Area 419!
Stock work done by GA Precision!
Just pulled the scope and am trying to decide on some new glass!

Rifle looks great, AF. I'm about to start load development with the 180 ELD, and I'm getting 2915 fps in one 7WSM with the 195 Berg, with 9 firings on that batch of brass so far, so I expect to hit 3000 with the 180's.

I am getting 3060fps with the 180 eld-m in my 26" GAP 7WSM and R 26. Brass looks great, primers still round, new primers seat smooth and tight. I won't push it any further as Accuracy is superb at that load and oal.

I wish I could find R26 a little more reliably. I'm using 7828ssc simply because I can always find it. The best I can do with R26 is a few odd pounds every once in a blue moon.

Wow. I need to try some '26.

Jk16, yes, the Manners SL is carbon-fiber. Their website says 27 oz and gives some layup info too.

http://mannersstocks.com/hunting-stocks/

Jordan your getting some good speed and brass life with your short 7 and I agree 3000 should come pretty easy , I too would like to give RL26 a go as soon as I see some on the shelves, but I'm pretty happy with the way it is shooting with Retumbo for now!

I'm nowhere near 3000 fps with the 180 ELDM (with 7828) in my 7 WSM. I'll be interested to see what Jordan comes up with. That bullet changes things. Now, if it will just hold together a bit better than the 162.........

Did some testing today. Best accuracy came at 2979 fps. Only a few shots, but ES was 6 and SD 3. Looks promising.

Took a couple more pics as I sit here in paradise this morning watching the dogs cavort. Man, western Oregon is awesome this time of year. Anyway... some closer shots, and with the Accurate DBM inserted. I hadn't gotten around to ordering that. When I got it, I found I still had some work to do on the feed rails; I'd opened them up to match my factory M700 WSM's spec, I thought, but I needed to take a bit more off where the feed rails meet the feed ramp. No worries, and now she feeds slick as can be!

I also made a 3rd bolt knob for it. I'd made a big honking aluminum one, a small stainless one, and then I just made this one in between. I like it. It's stainless; might make one just like it in aluminum... but the extra weight of the steel does make for a decisive bolt throw!



You can also see the prototype rear ring-bubble I made to fit Talleys. Working great, but it's a bit stalled out as a project as I try to discern if I can make/sell them without running afoul of ITAR restrictions. Ugh.

Dunno how I missed this. I've beeen planning exactly the same project, but I'm still hung up on a couple of details. I'm really tempted to build it in 7rsaum, instead of 6.5. I was all set to go with 6.5, and then I kept thinking, that anything the 6.5 can do, the 7 should be able to do better, expecially now that the 180 eld has arrived. Then again, more recoil, so probably a brake. The other thing is DBM, or Wyatt's? I have a TERRIBLE feeling that I'll end up chambering up a barrel in each. Ain't no thang to swap barrels back and forth...

I could see that! I shoot the 180 ELDM's from my heavy 7 WSM.

For that matter, now that Hornady is making brass <insert celebration emoticon here> 7 WSM should be in the conversation again. I've had very good results from my two 7 WSM's.

IF you use the latest GAP-spec 6.5 GAP reamer, and I can get you a PTG part number if you want, then a Wyatt's would give more than enough COAL, and I have personal experience with a Wyatt's and the short/fats in my heavy 7 WSM. It feeds slick as can be. If I were doing the fauX again, I'd go blind-mag and Wyatt's. If nothing else the DBM bottom metal GAP uses, and I used, is quite expensive. But in a hunting rifle I think the blind mag would be a cleaner carry as well as keeping the action interior cleaner.

On that note, I'd skip the fluting on the bolt next time too.

So you've had a bit more time with the rifle. Anything you would change? I scored a Manners stock, and a Piercision mini muscle break, so I'm ready to get the ball rolling. Still on the fence on 6.5 vs 7, but am leaning toward 6.5 at the moment. My 6.5 reamer is a .081 throat, as I believe yours is. What sort of velocity are you getting with that throat? Are they taking up too much boiler room ?

Jeff,

How does it group?

John

Jeff, what bolt knob is that.

. That bolt knob is one JeffO cobbled up for himself.

Hey fellas!

Things I would change... I'd probably go blind magazine with a Wyatt's extended box next time. The DBM setup is very high quality stuff and feeds great but at the end of the day I think I'd prefer a smooth closed bottom on the stock for carrying. As I think I mentioned earlier I used the Wyatt's on the 7 WSM I built and it feeds great too. You do get really long COAL with the AICS mags, but if you use the GAP spec reamer, it's not needed anyway.

I wouldn't use a fluted bolt again on a hunting rig. At Steens chasing antelope in the desert last summer it was demonstrated what I've heard: that fluted bolts transport debris into the action.

To be honest I've been a bit busy with a boat I bought and big new customer I picked up and haven't fired the rifle since late last fall. I've only messed with the 140 ELDM's in it. I haven't chrono'd them. They do blow right through an antelope.

I believe the bolt knob in that pic is the second one I made. I first made a small stainless knob; next I tried a big-ass aluminum one, then finally I made sort of a medium sized one from stainless. So I think that's the big aluminum one. It actually feels great in the hand, but it gives me TOO much leverage on the bolt and it wants to bind a bit at the rear of its travel. Doesn't do that with the smaller knobs.

The rifle shoots very, very tiny groups. As does the 7 WSM I built. Both do things I hadn't seen from even my other customs. Probably just luck and the nice components- stocks in particular- but I choose to believe it's my mad skilz!

Beautiful rifle. Great blueprint to copy.

Somewhat similar to the CTR, but with some nicer components.

Well done.

I agree- great blueprint. That was why I cloned it- I figured GAP had sorted out things like the balance, which is excellent, and which I'd have no clue about given it was a stock I'd never used, barrel profile I'd never used, etc. Hats off to GAP for a job well done!

I love that Manners SL stock. If my boat wasn't sucking down all my spare coin I'd order another one, and set it up blind-mag or, perhaps, BDL... but then I'm into bottom metal. I have leftover Remington bottom metal but it'd be hard to stick that on a premium build.

The only thing I didn't functionally clone was that GAP brakes theirs. I figured I'd try it first, see how it went. Recoil is no biggie at ALL as you'd expect. It'd be nice to be able to call my shots, no question there. I can't remember now but I *think* I even made a brake for it already so if I decide to go that way it's pretty easy... hmm... now I'll have to look in the box of fauX stuff. I went on a brake-building binge there for a bit a while back. Spare time and machine tools will do that. Don't have much of the former at the moment as the latter are busy as heck.

WHAT A NEAT BOLT KNOB!!! WOW!!!




Clark

Takes one to know one!

I personally can't wait to see how many critters you happen to shoot with it....

Laughing...

So far so good.



Now show me a critter you killed with a rifle you built yourself from a completely bare action. Until then:

Laughing.......

WOW!

WHAT A TROPHY!

THANKS FOR POSTING!!!!

Laughing....

Killer knife work...