Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire London towering inferno

Are you suggesting that this isn't what normally happens??? I can point to three examples of it in New York City, all on the same day.

No. I'm suggesting that you are a smooth brained idiot.

they're reporting 6 dead, 74 injured

Unfortunately, I believe it will go up significantly. I heard no one survived on the top 3 floors.

Muzzies burned it down. They have a scorched earth plan.

.....The HELL did they make that "Rain Proof Siding / cladding" out of,

.....looks like they compressed old out of spec highway flares, slurried with napalm.

GTC

Which implies that I'm wrong, because smooth brained folks are often wrong, right? So tell me why it's not the case that it's normal for modern, steel framed, skyscrapers that catch fire to come down perfectly into their own footprints? I need education on that. Did I, or did I not, see three such examples in New York City? Or are you suggesting that those three examples were exceptional somehow? If so, how?

Nightmare right there.

Wow !!! My bride, DIL and grandson were scheduled to leave Dublin for London about 2 hours ago . . . hope they are not supposed to stay anywhere near there.

Sad to see a "modern" construction building go up in flames (apparently very fast, too) like that. Prayers for the residents and their families. Doesn't look good for survivors, I'm sure the death toll will rise dramatically.

Obtuseness is such a winning strategy.

Different standards in high rise construction over there. HOw did the sprinkler system not kick in?

Grenfell Tower didn't have an working Grinnell fire protection system.

I know, I know. Terrible play on words. But it seems that once something isn't working or systems in place it precipitates an whole chain failures. Flammable materials, blocked escape ways, no alarm.

Just wondering how they came to the conclusion is was an fridge failure so quickly. That's an pretty quick determination

It was built in 1974, modern is a relative term. Fire alarm and sprinkler systems need to be routinely inspected and maintained to function properly.

As was already mentioned, any pressurized (and those that aren't pressurized but has liquid plus space) vessel can "explode" when heated. This is called a BLEVE and there are many interesting videos of such events. I've seen them ranging from aerosol cans and vehicle struts on up to 40 lbs propane cylinders and water heaters. The latter have been sent 30 feet into the air through 2 floors, a ceiling, and the roof so there was plenty of energy provided by the water left in the heater.

The "exploding" pressure system only drew attention to the problem, it wasn't the cause of the fire.

As for the material covering the building, that is too difficult to tell on the information available. It is possible that the material was rated as "fire resistant" but that does not mean "fire proof". The material could also have degraded through exposure to the elements or lack of maintenance. Once this occurs, the possibility of the material catching fire increases.

As for the sprinklers not working, that is to be expected for a fire that spreads from the outside in. Sprinklers are set up to control a fire starting in the open spaces inside a building and would not even trip until the fire burned into the building. By the time that occurred, the fire would too large to control, even if the sprinklers could hit the flames.

And if only the common areas such as hallways were the sprinkled areas, and not the individual units which is not uncommon in retrofits in this country, a fire in an apartment can spread easily. The same can be said if the fridge was blocking the fire from the sprinkler. If the fridge was near an open window, the fire would spread that direction and could spread to the outside before heat built to the point of setting off a sprinkler head.

This is a horrific tragedy and prayers go out to all affected. Hopefully, what is learned will prevent similar tragedies from happening in the future.

All I'm saying is that it's normal for this to happen. That it happened three times in a row (all on the same day) in NYC is proof (or at least strong evidence) that I'm correct, is it not?

What position are you taking on this question? Is it your contention that what happened in NYC on 9/11, i.e., three modern, steel framed, skyscrapers collapsing perfectly into their own footprints as a result of catching fire, isn't normal??? What's your evidence for that extraordinary claim? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, do they not? Support your claim that what happened in NYC on 9/11 was abnormal for modern, steel framed, skyscrapers. If you cannot, then how is it unreasonable to expect the same for the London fire?

My only claim is that you are an obtuse smooth brained idiot. I shall amend that claim to add that you are also obsessed and have poor reading comprehension.

9/11 was both normal and abnormal.

Normal in that many of the structural members were affected more or less equally by fire at the same time. That would likely cause a pancake collapse as occurred. It was abnormal in that such widespread fire is rare with a fire starting at a single point and moving out from there. That would lead to varying points of strength/weakness most likely causing a collapse to the weak side rather than straight down.

There is no single result that occurs in these situations, there are too many variables. That is why there is more than one type of collapse.

Ever hear the word grandfathered.... I'm not saying it was, but it could have been prior to sprinkler codes....

I take it, then, that you cannot support your claim that the NYC events in question were abnormal. Therefore, lacking proof to the contrary, it's reasonable to conclude that they were normal. Therefore, absent proof to the contrary, one should reasonably expect the same to occur in London.

The building was full of Muslim tenants. The fire is supposed to have started on the 4th floor and I'll bet the investigators will find that most of the tenants on the 4th floor were Muslims. Muslims don't mind killing other Muslims as long as they can kill some infidels. No way this was an accident.