Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 180 XTP at 1160FPS or 1287FPS with Longshot.

Anyone use Longshot to reload the 40SW?

Looking at Hogdon load data with a 40SW and a 4 inch barrel you can get 1160FPS at 32,350 PSI using 8.0 grains, interestingly the 10mm with 9.5 grains of same powder and 5 inch barrel only give 1287FPS with the XTP at 34,600PSI. Longshot looks like a good powder for this bullet weight.

Interesting you can get 90% of the velocity with 50% of the pistol weight using a 40SW in this bullet weight.

It can do a lot better than Hodgdon's data implies in the 10mm, and some others like AA9 and AA7 can push a 180 a lot faster than that.

Despite what you think the load data is implying, a .40 is not 90% of a 10mm, and a 40 S&W pistol does not weigh only half of what a 10mm pistol weighs.

Longshot is a pretty decent powder for both cartidges though, certainly one of the better choices.

I mean...its what the Hogdon website says is the maximum load for both, I would presume they know what they are talking about? Also a G23 weights 24 ounces while the new ruger 10 weights 44 ounces. Just sayin is all but willing to listen if there is some wisdom I am missing....

Probably comparing the G23 with a Glock 29 would be a more apples-to-apples comparison as far as weight goes.

Either way, that's nice performance from a 40 SW.

Yes, it's certainly good performance for a 40 S&W. It's not top end performance for a 10mm; I'm pushing 200 gr bullets to that speed in 10mm from a shorter barrel.

I could find an example of a heavy 40 S&W to compare to a G20 or G29 to "prove" a 40 weighs more than a 10mm, but it wouldn't mean any more than your comparison Jimmy. Glock lists the G29 as less than 27 ounces, is that 50% more than your G23?

Here's a more realistic look at these; compare Underwood's 180gr loads of 1100 fps for the 40 and 1300 fps for the 10mm:

https://underwoodammo.com/shop/40-sw-180-grain-bonded-jacketed-hollow-point/

https://underwoodammo.com/shop/10mm-auto-180-grain-xtp-jacketed-hollow-point/

That's ~40% more power to the 10mm, for another 3 ounces of pistol if it's a Glock, or no perceptible difference if it's a 1911.

I was doing some google-fu. Seems the loaded weight of a G23 and G29 are both around 32 oz, give or take an ounce for ammo weight.

The 23 gives a few more pokes, the 29 hits harder. Take your pick.

I was using the reloading web site. I bought a pound of longshot this afternoon. I get the 1300 fps but was going off hodgdons maximum loads. I just don't think I need a 10 based on a 180 at 1100.

I did find max pressure for the 10 is 37,500 psi per saami and 35,000 for the 40 smith and Wesson. Interesting that the hogdon loads are below this for both 10 and 40.

Sure you do with all of the weight savings.

The 40 is a way more versatile cartridge than it's given credit for. I liked the 10mm in the early 90's but shot it with full snort Norma loads. Watering it down makes it an expensive to shoot 40, more than anything else.

The "weight " claim is obviously rubbish. My M610 cares less load wise.

I did not mean to insult the venerable 10mm simply to point out that the 40SW could according to material listed on a major powder manufacturers website be loaded to 90% of the velocity that their maximum 10mm load was listed at and this is comparing a 4 inch barreled gun to a 5 inch barreled 10mm! In addition rather than carry a 44 ounce Ruger 10mm 1911, you could carry a 23 ounce G23 or sure a better comparison would be the 30 ounce G20 with a 4.6 inch long barrel. OTOH many of the 10's are quite heavy for the power they produce. The 10mm is not the 41 magnum or the 44 magnum and I own a 44 magnum. Like Sarge said above I think a lot of people overlook the capabilities of the 40 while most are shooting store bought 10mm practice ammo at 40 speeds.

Those are good speeds. Underwood ammo shows 1100 fps for a 180 grain JHP. The 10mm shows 1300 fps. I didn't see a barrel length listed.

I'm 20 grains heavier across the board but use Longshot in my 40 to fire 200 grain bullets to 1040 fps and 1244 fps for the 200's in my 10mm, my 40 is a P226 with a 4.25"? barrel, 10mm is a 5" barreled 1911.

decide what is more important to you energy or second shot time on target.

shoot both the Glock and Delta on 10, Glock will swell the case heads before Delta

case heads in 40, as a result of the small primer, have thicker web areas than 10 cases, in special cases, when rebuilding 1911s, longer link pins in combination with compensators can cause higher firing pin hits, resulting in a "rebore" and fitting of the firing pin.

40 makes easy major with a wide range of powders in my STIs throat freebore, 180 or 200 gr and seated out.

As above, store 10mm is loaded way down.

But I am glad to see the 10mm "reborn"

Jimmy this isn't the first time you've tried to justify a 40 being almost as good as a 10mm.

Was it just last year when you claimed a 40 was just as powerful as a 10mm and sometimes more? Too much looking at one data source, and not enough actual shooting.

I like the 10mm, but your first line is why I carry a 9mm.

The second line may be true in the old gen2 and early gen3 Glocks, but not in the newer stuff; i.e. that statement hasn't been true in at least 15-20 years, from personal experience.

My main 10mm load is a 200gr at 1275 fps in a stock G20 barrel, and 1350 from the 6.5" long slide. Neither one swells the case head or any other pressure sign, but that load is NOT safe in a Delta Elite.



They'd be service length barrels; Underwood is pretty honest about the velocity of their ammo in common pistols rather than test barrels. That 1300 fps load is significantly faster in my 6.5" barrel.

yup its been about 20 years.

Know anyone who wants to buy a 200 gr. NEI 4 bullet mould?

but yondering I love the conversations, its more fun sometimes than arguing with my friends at deer camp! I have had a couple of 10's myself and would consider the 40MOS in the future. Right now I am doing things backwards got the powder, dies, getting ready to buy 500 170 grain LSWC missouri coated bullets.

Serious question though, I had avoided the glock 40's for a while due to the issue of more of them blowing up than 9mm's, did someone say that the cases are better supported these days?

might look at a barrel replacement, more support in the web area, and rifled--- both a big plus

Not really.

The quality of more recent Glock barrels is excellent, and better than most of the aftermarket barrels out there, and as I said earlier, have better case support than older barrels. The rifling thing is just inexperience talking; too many people repeat that same dumb stuff they read online.

The quality of your Glocks may have been excellent but not the case here, have problem with leading with the polys.

Not really much experience with glocks though, had to slow down a lot getting older. Used to run 50k thru them a year during competitive years. Had one of the first 40s out, won several state IPSC champions in A class. Down to 12-15k now.
only kept a couple 21,19,34,35,37,38,17,23, 17L.

by your comments I would guess your in the 100k group

Just occurred--- probably talking apples and oranges here

Im guessing your talking about mostly jacketed bullets.

Im talking about hard cast lead which I buy 10k to 25k at a time trying to get uniformity throughout the lot. In most cases were I used the guns for competitive shooting, a replacement barrel helped.

speaking about internet ---- I invite you to drop over to Brianenos.com and post your suggestion about Glock barrels, etc. and see what their inexperience says.

I love this place, reminds me of that movie "the burbs". ETOH you have seen problems shooting coated brinell 18 hard cast bullets?

thank you I love specific questions, have a really hard time with double negatives, gerunds, rhetoricals, and present perfect tenses.

haven't shot enough to have a solid opinion.

most I shoot aren't coated.

99% of what I shoot in handguns is cast. I don't buy them, I make them. There are some basic requirements to make cast bullets work really well in any barrel, and a lot of commercial cast bullets don't measure up. Not to mention a lot of cast bullet reloaders don't bother making sure their bullets fit the bore.

If you have leading in a Glock barrel, 9 times out of 10 it's your bullet and/or loading practices, not the barrel. Every load I've found that leads OEM Glock barrels also leads aftermarket barrels. Do you know what your Glock bores measure, and are you buying bullets appropriate for that? Or just buying whatever the manufacturer has?

I'm not claiming Glock barrels are dummy proof, but they are generally very good, including for cast bullets.

I buy Missouri coated bullets, that are brienell 18, they have done most excellent in my 44 magnum, their 170 grain .401 diameter coated SWC is my choice for a Glock barrel in 40SW. Thoughts?

According to Hodgdon data, you can get 1139 fps with a 185 grain bullet at only 19,700 psi in a .45 auto. Pretty much the same velocity with a slightly larger bullet. You can get 1142 fps with a 200 grain cast SWC in a .45 auto, surpassing the 40SW in your example.

Not that I can remember. The cases are better supported by most aftermarket barrels.

The coated bullets are generally pretty forgiving and often work well even when the size and hardness isn't quite right. The .40 bullet you mention will work great in most barrels since it's coated, but still best to slug yours to be sure. It only takes a minute; I like to use soft lead muzzleloader round balls, and drive them into the barrel with an aluminum rod. Measure the resulting diameter of the lead slug, and buy bullets at least .001" larger, .002"-.003" larger is fine too as long as the loaded round isn't too fat for the chamber.

For a bare lead bullet, that 18 Brinell is a bit hard, and if your barrel slugs at .401", it's gonna lead with a .401" bullet. If it's .400" or smaller, it'll generally shoot OK. Biggest .40 cal barrel I had was a Beretta 96, at .403", it wouldn't shoot any commercial cast bullets without severe leading.

The take-away for me is that perhaps Longshot is not the best powder for 10mm with that particular bullet.

You are right. Longshot will work if you are looking for a mid-range load but it is too fast for heavier loads in the 10mm. The 10mm has about twice the available space for powder with a 200 grain bullet compared to the 40 so a slower powder is needed to get real 10mm loads. Blue Dot works on the lower end and AA9 has performed the best for me when velocity is needed with the 180s and up. Even Blue Dot is slower than Longshot. It just depends what you want the 10 to do because it is versatile.

I've shot several boxes of MBC's plain, cast version of that bullet through Glocks & M&P's. A very accurate bullet that at 900 fps will through & through a big groundhog longways and kill him instantly. .