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I wonder how long it's going to be until someone claims a kill at 3 miles. I cannot in my mind see a Sniper popping someone off at over two miles. Put an Orange colored ball on the shoulder of a long road, walk two miles away and see if you can see it. Now, you say there are Optics involved. Most Certainly. But the Bullet Drop Compensation would have made it impossible to get a target into view at that distance. It would be in feet, not inches. A .50 cal. Bullet is so heavy that it would have hit the ground long before that distance. Certainly not possible to maintain a ten second flight time. So, as the story get's around, people say, "WOW", or "Isn't that something?". I say BS So are you saying for the 3 mile shot it will require a lighter bullet? Kinda makes sense because of how fast heavy stuff drops compared to light stuff. I'm guessing when shooters get hip to this you'll start seeing more and more at the matches developing loads with 100 grain bullets instead of the 140's, especially as you get out past 600 yds. I shot a can of beef stew off a stump at over a mile once. True story.
Liberalism; The impossible yet accepted notion that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,132 |
Ignorance may be bliss, but common sense is not. are you pulling our leg or do not understand how that shot is possible, even though it would involve some luck.
God bless Texas-----------------------
Old 300
I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull
Its not how you pick the booger..
but where you put it !!
Roger V Hunter
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Campfire Ranger
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Ignorance may be bliss, but common sense is not. Your uninformed "common sense". Your lack of knowledge concerning ballistics is readily obvious.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Ignorance may be bliss, but common sense is not. The Maximum effective range of the .50 BMG round is 2,000 yards; Maximum range is 7,140 yards. Or 21,420 ft. Which is 4.06 miles (5,280’/mile). This assumes 647g FMJ ammo.
Specific data:
Initial Angle: 36.3 deg Terminal Angle: 62.9 deg
Terminal Range: 7140.0 yds Terminal Velocity: 585.2 ft/s
Terminal Time: 38.397 sec. Terminal Energy: 491.9 ft•lbs
If shooting .50BMG AMAX Match Ammo (from a bolt rifle), the BC is much better so the Maximum range would be 8,820 yards. Or 26,460 ft. Which is 5.01 miles (5,280’/mile). This assumes 750g AMAX Match ammo.
Specific data:
Initial Angle: 37.5 deg Terminal Angle: 61.5 deg
Terminal Range: 8820.0 yds Terminal Velocity: 677.4 ft/s
Terminal Time: 42.799 sec Terminal Energy: 764.0 ft•lbs
Maximum Distance - Maximum distance achieved.
Initial Angle - The angle of the barrel relative to the ground.
Terminal Range - The distance achieved by the bullet for the elevation.
Terminal Angle - Angle at which bullet strikes the ground. Ninety degrees is straight down.
Terminal Velocity - The final speed of the bullet in feet per second
Terminal Energy - Really the "Kinetic Energy" of the bullet. The kinetic energy is a measure of the maximum amount of work (force time distance) an object can do. [It is also a measure of the work done by the firearm/case/primer/powder on the bullet.]
Time of flight - The time of flight of bullet in seconds.
Given the above, it would be possible to kill something at the Maximum distances indicated.
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Campfire Regular
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I wonder how long it's going to be until someone claims a kill at 3 miles. I cannot in my mind see a Sniper popping someone off at over two miles. Put an Orange colored ball on the shoulder of a long road, walk two miles away and see if you can see it. Now, you say there are Optics involved. Most Certainly. But the Bullet Drop Compensation would have made it impossible to get a target into view at that distance. It would be in feet, not inches. A .50 cal. Bullet is so heavy that it would have hit the ground long before that distance. Certainly not possible to maintain a ten second flight time. So, as the story get's around, people say, "WOW", or "Isn't that something?". I say BS So are you saying for the 3 mile shot it will require a lighter bullet? Kinda makes sense because of how fast heavy stuff drops compared to light stuff. I'm guessing when shooters get hip to this you'll start seeing more and more at the matches developing loads with 100 grain bullets instead of the 140's, especially as you get out past 600 yds. I shot a can of beef stew off a stump at over a mile once. True story. The snipers need to put the 50's on the shelf and go to a proven lighter bullet like in the 270 Win.
Do not feed the bear!
White Bear sometimes treads on thin ice...
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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lots of talk about horizon. Can anyone tell me what distance to the horizon has to do with making the shot?
The horizon is uniform only over water. From my house the horizon is 40 plus miles to the North and East.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I wonder how long it's going to be until someone claims a kill at 3 miles. I cannot in my mind see a Sniper popping someone off at over two miles. Put an Orange colored ball on the shoulder of a long road, walk two miles away and see if you can see it. Now, you say there are Optics involved. Most Certainly. But the Bullet Drop Compensation would have made it impossible to get a target into view at that distance. It would be in feet, not inches. A .50 cal. Bullet is so heavy that it would have hit the ground long before that distance. Certainly not possible to maintain a ten second flight time. So, as the story get's around, people say, "WOW", or "Isn't that something?". I say BS The BC of Hornady's .50 caliber bullet is 1.050, almost twice that of good bullets of .30 and smaller caliber. At the same muzzle velocity it will therefore have a FLATTER trajectory. As for bullet drop compensation, don't you think the military is smart enough to procure scopes with more elevation adjustment than Leupold hunting scopes? This reminds me of the Adobe Wells battle in the 1870s, when a buffalo hunter shot an Indian chief off his horse at 1500 yards or thereabouts with a black powder buffalo rifle. About 20 years ago some guys tried to duplicate this, using a large drawing of an Indian and a horse on a large sheet of cloth. IIRC, only one shot even hit the cloth. I've done enough competitive shooting at (only) 1000 yards to realize that the Canadian's feat was more luck than skill. But if he hadn't had a lot of skill the luck would not have mattered.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I wonder how long it's going to be until someone claims a kill at 3 miles. I cannot in my mind see a Sniper popping someone off at over two miles. Put an Orange colored ball on the shoulder of a long road, walk two miles away and see if you can see it. Now, you say there are Optics involved. Most Certainly. But the Bullet Drop Compensation would have made it impossible to get a target into view at that distance. It would be in feet, not inches. A .50 cal. Bullet is so heavy that it would have hit the ground long before that distance. Certainly not possible to maintain a ten second flight time. So, as the story get's around, people say, "WOW", or "Isn't that something?". I say BS I will just address one point of this BS post. If you want to shoot something at 2.1 miles, it helps to have the rifle originally zeroed at 1.5 miles. Not so many minutees of comeup to dial in that way. And remember, each minute of comeup at 3500 yds is 35 inches. As to the rest of your post, I reference you to Sir Issac Newton.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Sure, Jeff. Better to remain silent than to bring up the obvious common sense question and get a response from some one more knowledgeable than myself? Not my style. I don't believe everything I read in the press. If you need verification of the kill, wait until a Ballistic expert joins in. Then you might have a better idea of what the actual circumstances would have been. I fired the BMG .50 in the Marine Corps. I'm no expert, but if you asked me to take down a target at two miles, I would have laughed at you. One mile, maybe, but not two.
Better to be over the hill than under it.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Because the bullet was too heavy to fly that far?
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,857
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Sure, Jeff. Better to remain silent than to bring up the obvious common sense question and get a response from some one more knowledgeable than myself? Not my style. I don't believe everything I read in the press. If you need verification of the kill, wait until a Ballistic expert joins in. Then you might have a better idea of what the actual circumstances would have been. I fired the BMG .50 in the Marine Corps. I'm no expert, but if you asked me to take down a target at two miles, I would have laughed at you. One mile, maybe, but not two. The King of 2 Mile matches are being held at the Whittington Center starting on June 27th. Google it, see what people are accomplishing these days. Ain't the .50BMG of days past.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 19,495 |
I don't believe everything I read in the press. Hopefully no one does.
Retired cat herder.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,861 |
Sure, Jeff. Better to remain silent than to bring up the obvious common sense question and get a response from some one more knowledgeable than myself? Not my style. I don't believe everything I read in the press. If you need verification of the kill, wait until a Ballistic expert joins in. Then you might have a better idea of what the actual circumstances would have been. I fired the BMG .50 in the Marine Corps. I'm no expert, but if you asked me to take down a target at two miles, I would have laughed at you. One mile, maybe, but not two. Just a thought, what does a 155 howitzer round weigh, and what is its range? How about a 16 inch naval gun?
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
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Idaho Shooter: If I recall correctly the "guns" on the U.S.S. Missouri were 16 inch guns?
Anyway on the tour of the U.S.S. Missouri I took I distinctly remember the naval fellow giving the tour, stating, (in response to a question!) that the projectile from the U.S.S. Missouri's "big guns" weighed nearly as much as a VW Bug and flew for 25 miles.
Then (again IIRC!) I later read a story regarding these guns back in the Viet Nam War era and they were used then - the story alluded to where the U.S.S. Missouri sailed up near the shore of that country flooded some tanks on the offshore side of the battleship thus allowing the "big guns" to elevate their muzzles numerous more degrees and then some projectiles went 30+ miles inland to hit targets.
Someone please correct me if need be on these interesting facts regarding 16" naval guns.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
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Idaho Shooter: Indeed "Wikipedia" verified that the U.S.S. Missouri had nine 16 "big guns"!
The projectiles those big guns fired weighed 2,240 pounds (two thousand two hundred and fourty pounds!)!
The 2,240 pound projectiles from these 16" guns flew for 23 miles!
I bet that is a LOT of muzzle energy!
Let alone the explosive power of those projectiles.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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Idaho Shooter: UPDATE!
Those 2,240 pound projectiles were the "original" intended shells!
Those were replaced with projectiles that weighed 2,700 pounds (two thousand seven hundred pounds!) each!
Those projectiles flew for 23 miles.
Then in a less clear reference Wikipedia gave muzzle velocities thusly:
AP = 2,300 F.P.S.
HC = 2,635 F.P.S.
I am guessing the "AP" above is in reference to an "armor piercing" projectile?
I don't know what the "HC" refers to.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Ignorance may be bliss, but common sense is not. On this particular subject, you are as ignorant / stupid as a bag of hammers, sitting on a tub fulla potatoes, with a coupla' front loaders fulla' horsechit dumped over the works. GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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But Rondrews told us for fact the 50 BMG could not shoot two miles because the 750 gr bullet is too heavy. But our dreadnaughts routinely tossed 2000 pound plus projectiles over 20 miles.
They are all just bullets.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 13,941 |
Idaho Shooter: UPDATE!
Those 2,240 pound projectiles were the "original" intended shells!
Those were replaced with projectiles that weighed 2,700 pounds (two thousand seven hundred pounds!) each!
Those projectiles flew for 23 miles.
Then in a less clear reference Wikipedia gave muzzle velocities thusly:
AP = 2,300 F.P.S.
HC = 2,635 F.P.S.
I am guessing the "AP" above is in reference to an "armor piercing" projectile?
I don't know what the "HC" refers to.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy The High Capacity (HC) shell can create a crater 50 feet wide and 20 feet deep (15 x 6 m). During her deployment off Vietnam, USS New Jersey (BB-62) occasionally fired a single HC round into the jungle and so created a helicopter landing zone 200 yards (180 m) in diameter and defoliated trees for 300 yards (270 m) beyond that. More interesting info here: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-45_mk5.phpAnd here: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.php
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Ya' know,....something nobody's tossed into this variegated and pretty damned "broadest spectrum" of comments is, to this humble scribe, GLARINGLY absent. ....this being "Intermediate Weather data Transmitters / Sensors",....available in an almost DAZZLING array of sizes, shapes, forms. Some simple line of sight, some Satellite uplinked, some on a "Net" that can involve MANY different recipients of WIND, TEMP, Barometric Pressures, and probably a whole lot more, up to and including a geophone function.....They can be airdropped, fired into place out of mortars, or, as in the case here,...EMPLACED by the troops going forward under his gun. They can be fabulously pricey,....or in real battlefield dominance terms, considered disposable,.....self destructing when mission's accomplished, via a freq. burst,....in other words, VERY similar to the self destruct capability of lotsa' UAV / Drone electronics. The man on the rifles not doing a whole lot of calculating,......the "solutions mean correction" factors, CONSTANTLY updating via mega-bit miracles do however appear on his handheld device. Nothing particularly NEW about this, either,....the devices I'm presenting here for consideration were available to American Military shooters during Gulf War 1,....and have no bloody doubt, vastly improved, since. Not dismissing, "Luck",.....just trying to suggest that some of the "experienced marksman" posting in response to this thread ought to study up a bit,..... 
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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