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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
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They just don't get it. It must be miserable fighting so hard and losing at every turn. A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news for liberals
By Max Ehrenfreund
June 26, 2017 at 6:01 AM
A worker at a Subway in Seattle makes a sandwich. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)
When Seattle officials voted three years ago to incrementally boost the city's minimum wage up to $15 an hour, they'd hoped to improve the lives of low-income workers. Yet according to a major new study that could force economists to reassess past research on the issue, the hike has had the opposite effect.
The city is gradually increasing the hourly minimum to $15 over several years. Already, though, some employers have not been able to afford the increased minimums. They've cut their payrolls, putting off new hiring, reducing hours or letting their workers go, the study found.
The costs to low-wage workers in Seattle outweighed the benefits by a ratio of three to one, according to the study, conducted by a group of economists at the University of Washington who were commissioned by the city. The study, published as a working paper Monday by the National Bureau of Economic Research, has not yet been peer reviewed.
On the whole, the study estimates, the average low-wage worker in the city lost $125 a month because of the hike in the minimum.
The paper's conclusions contradict years of research on the minimum wage. Many past studies, by contrast, have found that the benefits of increases for low-wage workers exceed the costs in terms of reduced employment -- often by a factor of four or five to one.
"This strikes me as a study that is likely to influence people," said David Autor, an economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who was not involved in the research. He called the work "very credible" and "sufficiently compelling in its design and statistical power that it can change minds."
Yet the study will not put an end to the dispute. Experts cautioned that the effects of the minimum wage may vary according to the industries dominant in the cities where they are implemented along with overall economic conditions in the country as a whole.
And critics of the research pointed out what they saw as serious shortcomings. In particular, to avoid confusing establishments that were subject to the minimum with those that were not, the authors did not include large employers with locations both inside and outside of Seattle in their calculations. Skeptics argued that omission could explain the unusual results.
"Like, whoa, what? Where did you get this?" asked Ben Zipperer, an economist at the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute (EPI) in Washington.
"My view of the research is that it seems to work," he said. "The minimum wage in general seems to do exactly what it’s intended to do, and that’s to raise wages for low-wage workers, with little negative consequence in terms of job loss."
Economists might not readily dismiss the new study as an outlier, however. The paper published Monday makes use of more detailed data than have been available in past research, drawing on state records of wages and hours for individual employees.
As a result, the paper is likely to upend a debate that has continued among economists, politicians, businesses and labor organizers for decades. In particular, the results could exacerbate divisions among Democrats, who are seeking an economic agenda to counter President Trump's pitches for protectionism, reduced taxes and restrictions on immigration.
Meanwhile, states and cities around the country are continuing to implement increases in the minimum wage. In November, voters in Washington approved an increase in the statewide minimum to $13.50 an hour by 2020. The idea is popular in conservative states as well. In Arizona, for instance, the minimum wage will be $12 an hour in 2020 after voters there cast ballots in favor of a hike.
"If I were a Seattle lawmaker, I would be thinking hard about the $15 an hour phase-in," Autor said.
What makes this study different
Economists have long argued that increasing the minimum wage will force some employers to let workers go. In 1994, however, economists David Card and Alan Krueger published research on minimum wages in Pennsylvania and New Jersey that contradicted this theory, motivating dozens of studies into the issue over the coming years.
Card and Krueger conducted a survey of fast-food restaurants in the two states while New Jersey was implementing an increase in the minimum wage. They found that restaurants in New Jersey had, in fact, added more workers to their payrolls more than restaurants in neighboring Pennsylvania, where the minimum wage remained constant.
Since then, economists have brought better data and more sophisticated statistical methods to bear on the question of the minimum wage, but without resolving the debate.
Their studies examined the overall numbers of workers or their annual incomes, but lacked precise information on how much workers were being paid by the hour. As a result, past research might be less reliable because the results might reflect many workers who are not paid low wages, said Jacob Vigdor, an economist at the University of Washington and one of the authors of the new study.
Their research, using detailed records from the state of Washington, addresses that problem.
"That’s really a step beyond what essentially any past studies of the minimum wage have been able to use," said Jeffrey Clemens, an economist at the University of California, San Diego who was not involved in the research.
When the authors of the study took the same approach as Card and Krueger, measuring overall employment in the restaurant industry, they found similar results. The minimum wage did not substantially affect how many people were working in the industry or how many hours they were working.
The data, however, shows that about seven in 10 workers in Seattle restaurants make more than $13 an hour, suggesting that the overall level of employment in the industry might not be a reliable guide to how the minimum wage affects workers with low pay.
Indeed, while employment overall did not change, that was because employers replaced low-paying jobs with high-paying jobs. The number of workers making over $19 an hour increased abruptly, while the number making less than that amount declined, Vigdor and his colleagues found.
Vigdor said that restaurateurs in Seattle -- along with other employers -- responded to the minimum wage by hiring more skilled and experienced workers, who might be able to produce more revenue for their firms in the same amount of time.
That hypothesis has worrisome implications for less skilled workers. While there those with more ability might be paid more, junior workers might be losing an opportunity to work their way up. "Basically, what we’re doing is we’re removing the bottom rung of the ladder," Vigdor said.
Large businesses
There could be another explanation for the results, however: the fact that large employers are not included. It could be that even if employers with only a single location cut payrolls, large firms expanded at the same time, giving low-wage workers other opportunities to earn money.
Other researchers have found that large employers are better able to raise wages in response to changes in the minimum. Liberal economists often argue workers have less bargaining power when negotiating their contracts at larger firms, and that as a result, employees at those companies are often underpaid in the absence of a wage floor.
"I think they underestimate hugely the wage gains, and they overestimate hugely the employment loss," said Michael Reich, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley who was part of a group that published its own study of the minimum wage in Seattle last week.
Reich's study uses more conventional methods in research on the minimum wage, relying on a publicly available federal survey. His group's data did not allow the researchers to distinguish between high- and low-wage workers at a given firm, but they were able to separate large firms' locations in Seattle from those outside the city.
Their results from the University of California accorded with past research. The minimum wage increased wages for workers in the restaurant industry, without reducing employment overall -- in contrast to the findings from the University of Washington.
"Their results are so out of the range," Reich said.
One way of explaining the disagreement could be that small businesses in Seattle have been forced to downsize in response to the increased minimum wage, while larger firms have expanded.
Yet when Vigdor and his colleagues examined the overall number of workers at small firms with a single location, they did not find that employment had decreased. That fact could could suggest that small businesses have responded to the increase not by downsizing but instead by hiring more experienced workers.
Another big question
There's another explanation for the growth in high-paid jobs and the decrease in lower-paid ones. The authors of the study argue that that's occurring because employers are focusing on high-paid workers and leaving low-paid workers out, but it's possible that something far more positive is happening.
Seattle's economy is booming, and in a booming economy, more workers are likely to get raises or find jobs that pay better, and it may be that phenomenon -- of workers getting raises, promotions or better paying jobs -- that explains the shifts in the labor market the researchers see in Seattle.
Vigdor and his colleagues sought to address this problem, in essence, by constructing an index based on data from other parts of the state of Washington where local economies performed similarly to Seattle's before the increases in the hourly minimum.
Low-wage employment declined in Seattle relative to this benchmark. Even compared to parts of the state with similar economies, there was less low-wage work in Seattle, suggesting that the minimum wage might have forced employers to cut some of those positions.
The method Vigdor's group used to develop this index is on the cutting edge of economic research, but it is not perfect. It is possible that Seattle's economy simply took a different direction at the same time as the minimum wage began to increase -- even compared to economies in other places that seemed similar to Seattle's before the vote.
EPI's Zipperer argued that was the best explanation, given how pronounced the gains were for workers making more than $19 an hour.
"You’re just seeing an independent shift in the Seattle labor market toward higher wage employment," he said, calling the figures for better-paid workers "a red flag."
The broader national economy could have an effect on the results as well. In the past, noted San Diego's Clemens, increases in the minimum wage have occurred when the economy was expanding rapidly and prices are going up. Employers could expect to ask consumers to pay more and to give their workers wages anyway. Increases in the minimum wage might just have been part of the cost of doing business.
Currently, though, inflation is at historically low levels, and the minimum wage in Seattle will be indexed to inflation after it reaches $15 an hour, forcing firms to plan for the long term.
Vigdor agreed that the effects of increasing the minimum wage could differ by time and place.
"The effect of the minimum wage depends on a lot of things. It depends on where you’re starting form. It depends on what kind of economy you’re raising it in," Vigdor said. "There is no one 'the effect of the minimum wage.' "
That means that future research on the question could come to different conclusions. Vigdor said he looks forward to receiving criticisms of his group's paper and suggestions for improving their approach.
"It’s really important to emphasize it’s a work in progress," he said.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Campfire Regular
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And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that would happen. Hard to believe that anyone with an ounce of intelligence know this, but the average liberal doesn't.
Kelly
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Campfire Tracker
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It's so cute how you old guys have figured out how to put an article in the quote box but unfortunately it makes reading a lengthy article tedious at best.
A worker at a Subway in Seattle makes a sandwich. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)
When Seattle officials voted three years ago to incrementally boost the city's minimum wage up to $15 an hour, they'd hoped to improve the lives of low-income workers. Yet according to a major new study that could force economists to reassess past research on the issue, the hike has had the opposite effect.
The city is gradually increasing the hourly minimum to $15 over several years. Already, though, some employers have not been able to afford the increased minimums. They've cut their payrolls, putting off new hiring, reducing hours or letting their workers go, the study found.
The costs to low-wage workers in Seattle outweighed the benefits by a ratio of three to one, according to the study, conducted by a group of economists at the University of Washington who were commissioned by the city. The study, published as a working paper Monday by the National Bureau of Economic Research, has not yet been peer reviewed.
On the whole, the study estimates, the average low-wage worker in the city lost $125 a month because of the hike in the minimum.
The paper's conclusions contradict years of research on the minimum wage. Many past studies, by contrast, have found that the benefits of increases for low-wage workers exceed the costs in terms of reduced employment -- often by a factor of four or five to one.
"This strikes me as a study that is likely to influence people," said David Autor, an economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who was not involved in the research. He called the work "very credible" and "sufficiently compelling in its design and statistical power that it can change minds."
Yet the study will not put an end to the dispute. Experts cautioned that the effects of the minimum wage may vary according to the industries dominant in the cities where they are implemented along with overall economic conditions in the country as a whole.
And critics of the research pointed out what they saw as serious shortcomings. In particular, to avoid confusing establishments that were subject to the minimum with those that were not, the authors did not include large employers with locations both inside and outside of Seattle in their calculations. Skeptics argued that omission could explain the unusual results.
"Like, whoa, what? Where did you get this?" asked Ben Zipperer, an economist at the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute (EPI) in Washington.
"My view of the research is that it seems to work," he said. "The minimum wage in general seems to do exactly what it’s intended to do, and that’s to raise wages for low-wage workers, with little negative consequence in terms of job loss."
Economists might not readily dismiss the new study as an outlier, however. The paper published Monday makes use of more detailed data than have been available in past research, drawing on state records of wages and hours for individual employees.
As a result, the paper is likely to upend a debate that has continued among economists, politicians, businesses and labor organizers for decades. In particular, the results could exacerbate divisions among Democrats, who are seeking an economic agenda to counter President Trump's pitches for protectionism, reduced taxes and restrictions on immigration.
Meanwhile, states and cities around the country are continuing to implement increases in the minimum wage. In November, voters in Washington approved an increase in the statewide minimum to $13.50 an hour by 2020. The idea is popular in conservative states as well. In Arizona, for instance, the minimum wage will be $12 an hour in 2020 after voters there cast ballots in favor of a hike.
"If I were a Seattle lawmaker, I would be thinking hard about the $15 an hour phase-in," Autor said.
What makes this study different
Economists have long argued that increasing the minimum wage will force some employers to let workers go. In 1994, however, economists David Card and Alan Krueger published research on minimum wages in Pennsylvania and New Jersey that contradicted this theory, motivating dozens of studies into the issue over the coming years.
Card and Krueger conducted a survey of fast-food restaurants in the two states while New Jersey was implementing an increase in the minimum wage. They found that restaurants in New Jersey had, in fact, added more workers to their payrolls more than restaurants in neighboring Pennsylvania, where the minimum wage remained constant.
Since then, economists have brought better data and more sophisticated statistical methods to bear on the question of the minimum wage, but without resolving the debate.
Their studies examined the overall numbers of workers or their annual incomes, but lacked precise information on how much workers were being paid by the hour. As a result, past research might be less reliable because the results might reflect many workers who are not paid low wages, said Jacob Vigdor, an economist at the University of Washington and one of the authors of the new study.
Their research, using detailed records from the state of Washington, addresses that problem.
"That’s really a step beyond what essentially any past studies of the minimum wage have been able to use," said Jeffrey Clemens, an economist at the University of California, San Diego who was not involved in the research.
When the authors of the study took the same approach as Card and Krueger, measuring overall employment in the restaurant industry, they found similar results. The minimum wage did not substantially affect how many people were working in the industry or how many hours they were working.
The data, however, shows that about seven in 10 workers in Seattle restaurants make more than $13 an hour, suggesting that the overall level of employment in the industry might not be a reliable guide to how the minimum wage affects workers with low pay.
Indeed, while employment overall did not change, that was because employers replaced low-paying jobs with high-paying jobs. The number of workers making over $19 an hour increased abruptly, while the number making less than that amount declined, Vigdor and his colleagues found.
Vigdor said that restaurateurs in Seattle -- along with other employers -- responded to the minimum wage by hiring more skilled and experienced workers, who might be able to produce more revenue for their firms in the same amount of time.
That hypothesis has worrisome implications for less skilled workers. While there those with more ability might be paid more, junior workers might be losing an opportunity to work their way up. "Basically, what we’re doing is we’re removing the bottom rung of the ladder," Vigdor said.
Large businesses
There could be another explanation for the results, however: the fact that large employers are not included. It could be that even if employers with only a single location cut payrolls, large firms expanded at the same time, giving low-wage workers other opportunities to earn money.
Other researchers have found that large employers are better able to raise wages in response to changes in the minimum. Liberal economists often argue workers have less bargaining power when negotiating their contracts at larger firms, and that as a result, employees at those companies are often underpaid in the absence of a wage floor.
"I think they underestimate hugely the wage gains, and they overestimate hugely the employment loss," said Michael Reich, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley who was part of a group that published its own study of the minimum wage in Seattle last week.
Reich's study uses more conventional methods in research on the minimum wage, relying on a publicly available federal survey. His group's data did not allow the researchers to distinguish between high- and low-wage workers at a given firm, but they were able to separate large firms' locations in Seattle from those outside the city.
Their results from the University of California accorded with past research. The minimum wage increased wages for workers in the restaurant industry, without reducing employment overall -- in contrast to the findings from the University of Washington.
"Their results are so out of the range," Reich said.
One way of explaining the disagreement could be that small businesses in Seattle have been forced to downsize in response to the increased minimum wage, while larger firms have expanded.
Yet when Vigdor and his colleagues examined the overall number of workers at small firms with a single location, they did not find that employment had decreased. That fact could could suggest that small businesses have responded to the increase not by downsizing but instead by hiring more experienced workers.
Another big question
There's another explanation for the growth in high-paid jobs and the decrease in lower-paid ones. The authors of the study argue that that's occurring because employers are focusing on high-paid workers and leaving low-paid workers out, but it's possible that something far more positive is happening.
Seattle's economy is booming, and in a booming economy, more workers are likely to get raises or find jobs that pay better, and it may be that phenomenon -- of workers getting raises, promotions or better paying jobs -- that explains the shifts in the labor market the researchers see in Seattle.
Vigdor and his colleagues sought to address this problem, in essence, by constructing an index based on data from other parts of the state of Washington where local economies performed similarly to Seattle's before the increases in the hourly minimum.
Low-wage employment declined in Seattle relative to this benchmark. Even compared to parts of the state with similar economies, there was less low-wage work in Seattle, suggesting that the minimum wage might have forced employers to cut some of those positions.
The method Vigdor's group used to develop this index is on the cutting edge of economic research, but it is not perfect. It is possible that Seattle's economy simply took a different direction at the same time as the minimum wage began to increase -- even compared to economies in other places that seemed similar to Seattle's before the vote.
EPI's Zipperer argued that was the best explanation, given how pronounced the gains were for workers making more than $19 an hour.
"You’re just seeing an independent shift in the Seattle labor market toward higher wage employment," he said, calling the figures for better-paid workers "a red flag."
The broader national economy could have an effect on the results as well. In the past, noted San Diego's Clemens, increases in the minimum wage have occurred when the economy was expanding rapidly and prices are going up. Employers could expect to ask consumers to pay more and to give their workers wages anyway. Increases in the minimum wage might just have been part of the cost of doing business.
Currently, though, inflation is at historically low levels, and the minimum wage in Seattle will be indexed to inflation after it reaches $15 an hour, forcing firms to plan for the long term.
Vigdor agreed that the effects of increasing the minimum wage could differ by time and place.
"The effect of the minimum wage depends on a lot of things. It depends on where you’re starting form. It depends on what kind of economy you’re raising it in," Vigdor said. "There is no one 'the effect of the minimum wage.' "
That means that future research on the question could come to different conclusions. Vigdor said he looks forward to receiving criticisms of his group's paper and suggestions for improving their approach.
"It’s really important to emphasize it’s a work in progress," he said.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." **Edmund Burke**
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." **Benjamin Franklin**
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jul 2004
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"This strikes me as a study that is likely to influence people," said David Autor, an economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who was not involved in the research. He called the work "very credible" and "sufficiently compelling in its design and statistical power that it can change minds." Just not the minds of lieberals, who have not yet met a lie they couldn't embrace. "Like, whoa, what? Where did you get this?" asked Ben Zipperer, an economist at the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute (EPI) in Washington.
"My view of the research is that it seems to work," he said. "The minimum wage in general seems to do exactly what it’s intended to do, and that’s to raise wages for low-wage workers, with little negative consequence in terms of job loss." "Like", see what I mean?
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,327
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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It's so cute how you old guys have figured out how to put an article in the quote box but unfortunately it makes reading a lengthy article tedious at best. Oh, look............. A snowflake who only wants it his way. How cute.
Last edited by BayouRover; 06/26/17.
It's official. I missed the selfie deadline so I'm Maser's sock puppet because rene and the Polish half of the fubar twins have decided that I am.
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ μολὼν λαβέ
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,369 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,369 Likes: 2 |
[color:#3333FF]It's so cute how you old guys have figured out how to put an article in the quote box but unfortunately it makes reading a lengthy article tedious at best.[/color]
Well thanks for the sarcastic tip a-hole. It also doesn't take up half a page that way.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
there's just no way to defy nor beat "the invisible hand." the markets shall & will rule.
it's an old law, been passed down nearly from day one in eternity.
defying the old law helps to reconfirm it's existence.
give people a chance to move up the ladder.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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There's a little scrolling button on the quote box. Use it. I'm shocked you haven't figured out our cute way of reading it. Your whiny little bitch about your personal inconvenience makes everyone think you are a tool, at best.
Last edited by WyColoCowboy; 06/26/17.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor." ![[Linked Image]](http://www.rockymtnrefl.com/TetonFenceBarncd1985987.jpg)
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,306
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,306 |
[color:#3333FF]It's so cute how you old guys have figured out how to put an article in the quote box but unfortunately it makes reading a lengthy article tedious at best.[/color]
Well thanks for the sacastic tip a-hole. It also doesn't take up half a page that way. You're welcome ass-hole. I see that I gave you too much credit in thinking you knew how to use the quote function.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." **Edmund Burke**
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." **Benjamin Franklin**
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,306
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
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There's a little scrolling button on the quote box. Use it. I'm shocked you haven't figured out our cute way of reading it. Your whiny little bitch about your personal inconvenience makes everyone think you are a tool, at best. Twelve scrolls down in the quote box as apposed to five in the main body of the post. Are you on the rag WySissyCowGirl.LOL
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." **Edmund Burke**
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." **Benjamin Franklin**
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,327
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2013
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There's a little scrolling button on the quote box. Use it. I'm shocked you haven't figured out our cute way of reading it. Your whiny little bitch about your personal inconvenience makes everyone think you are a tool, at best. Twelve scrolls down in the quote box as apposed to five in the main body of the post. Are you on the rag WySissyCowGirl.LOL Maybe its a JeffO clone with a pissy attitude. Cute combination, bro.
It's official. I missed the selfie deadline so I'm Maser's sock puppet because rene and the Polish half of the fubar twins have decided that I am.
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ μολὼν λαβέ
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,900
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
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There's a little scrolling button on the quote box. Use it. I'm shocked you haven't figured out our cute way of reading it. Your whiny little bitch about your personal inconvenience makes everyone think you are a tool, at best. Twelve scrolls down in the quote box as apposed to five in the main body of the post. Are you on the rag WySissyCowGirl.LOL Might as well include me on the [bleep] list. GFY.
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,306
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,306 |
There's a little scrolling button on the quote box. Use it. I'm shocked you haven't figured out our cute way of reading it. Your whiny little bitch about your personal inconvenience makes everyone think you are a tool, at best. Twelve scrolls down in the quote box as apposed to five in the main body of the post. Are you on the rag WySissyCowGirl.LOL Might as well include me on the [bleep] list. GFY. For a dude that can't lift his own body weight using his legs,I'll take your GFY with a grain of salt.LOL Oh and GFY also.LOL
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." **Edmund Burke**
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." **Benjamin Franklin**
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 |
[color:#3333FF]It's so cute how you old guys have figured out how to put an article in the quote box but unfortunately it makes reading a lengthy article tedious at best.[/color]
Well thanks for the sacastic tip a-hole. It also doesn't take up half a page that way. You're welcome ass-hole. I see that I gave you too much credit in thinking you knew how to use the quote function. Do you enjoy picking flyshit out of pepper?
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,306
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,306 |
[color:#3333FF]It's so cute how you old guys have figured out how to put an article in the quote box but unfortunately it makes reading a lengthy article tedious at best.[/color]
Well thanks for the sacastic tip a-hole. It also doesn't take up half a page that way. You're welcome ass-hole. I see that I gave you too much credit in thinking you knew how to use the quote function. Do you enjoy picking flyshit out of pepper? I leave that chore to the Cubans.LOL.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." **Edmund Burke**
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." **Benjamin Franklin**
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Posts: 59,115 Likes: 23
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2011
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Slow learners.....This won't teach them anything at all.
Paul
"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.
Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Joined: Jul 2013
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2013
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There's a little scrolling button on the quote box. Use it. I'm shocked you haven't figured out our cute way of reading it. Your whiny little bitch about your personal inconvenience makes everyone think you are a tool, at best. Twelve scrolls down in the quote box as apposed to five in the main body of the post. Are you on the rag WySissyCowGirl.LOL What the phoucq do you do that is so important that 5 scroll downs versus 12 scroll down is an issue in your day? Do you have a God complex?
It's official. I missed the selfie deadline so I'm Maser's sock puppet because rene and the Polish half of the fubar twins have decided that I am.
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ μολὼν λαβέ
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,034 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,034 Likes: 6 |
Hatari: You are absolutely right "the libs just don't get it"!
Guilt and stupidity are a bad mix and demonrat libs are overwhelmed with these two "attributes"!
55+ years ago I was a "minimum wage" worker out there (Seattle and its suburbs) and I feel sorry for the folks negatively affected by this guilt ridden libtard demonrat policy.
Whats that old saying "socialism works just great til you run out of other peoples money"!
Witness kalifornicationcopia and Illinois!
Both morally, and soon to be, FINANCIALLY, bankrupt.
Sad.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,369 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,369 Likes: 2 |
Hatari: You are absolutely right "the libs just don't get it"!
Guilt and stupidity are a bad mix and demonrat libs are overwhelmed with these two "attributes"!
55+ years ago I was a "minimum wage" worker out there (Seattle and its suburbs) and I feel sorry for the folks negatively affected by this guilt ridden libtard demonrat policy.
Whats that old saying "socialism works just great til you run out of other peoples money"!
Witness kalifornicationcopia and Illinois!
Both morally, and soon to be, FINANCIALLY, bankrupt.
Sad.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy Well stated!
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,251 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,251 Likes: 6 |
good gosh where do these imbeciles come from............
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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