Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Powder Choice for 140 TTSX in 7-08?

The books show this cartridge will run on just about anything, and maybe even on a stiff charge of floor sweepings...

On hand (and let's stay there, please), I've got:
Varget
R15
H414
H4350
CFE223
H4895

... along with some others mentioned less frequently for that bullet in this cartridge:

TAC
Benchmark
H4831SC
R22


I worked-up loads for the 120 TTSX in this rifle, and found this:
R15: Good groups, but slow
Varget: Meh groups and velocity
H414: Crap groups & good velocity
CFE223: Fair groups, and excellent velocity

My question: is there anything I can extrapolate to the 140's, from the 120 results in this particular rifle? I was really surprised that neither R15 or Varget got me the velocity I was expecting with 120's. Could it be they'd be more suited to the 140's, than 120's? Or, would the 2 that got me velocity with the 120's, but more likely to do so with the 140's?

Or is it all simply a crap shoot, and I'll need to work up loads with all of them?

What says the peanut gallery? (I mean, besides, "You need to go out and buy ______ powder that you don't currently have!")

FC

I use Rl-15 with 120's with decent velocity. IMR4350 works best with 140's in my guns.

Since I can't mention Big Game (the best of both worlds in two 7mm-08's) I've gotten good results with RL15, H4350, and Varget. A couple of other shooters that I know swear by H414. What works best for one as you know won't necessarily work for all. Good luck.

That was pretty much my experience with Varget and H4350 with 140gr ie not much velocity but good accuracy. I moved to Viht N550 and the rifle was transformed. I'd say N550 or RL17 or some such high energy powder. My barrel is only 20". N550 gives standard length barrel velocities.

My go-to powder for my 7/08 (140 grain BT's or Partitions) is 4064. I use 41.0 grains. It gives me good velocity and nice tiny dime sized bughole groups out of my custom Model 7. I know...BT's to TTSX results can differ, but I'd try 4064 and see what happens...assuming there is load date backed up by Barnes.

If it were me i would give H-414 a try.

2000MR followed by RL17 for that bullet with me.

I recall seeing pretty good velocity (2800 or thereabouts) with a 140 grain bullet and 4895 in the Nosler #8 manual yesterday. Might check that out.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ but I prefer H4350; Varget also works well with the 140's too.

I will be trying the new IMR4451 when I get around to it too.

MM

H4350 shoots very well for me with 140 TSX. 1.5" at 220 yards.

Since 1991 I have used either 43 grains of WW748 or 47 grains of WW760 with 139-140 grain bullets in my 7mm-08s. I have owned four with barrels from 18-12" (Remington Model 7) to 22.4" (Tikka T-3) to 24" (Remington 700). The only one I still have is the Model 7. I thought about buying another Tikka in 7mm-08, but if I buy another rifle I'm thinking 6.5 Creedmoor.

Velocity isn't tops with the 748 load, but accuracy is. My Model 7 will put 5 shots under an inch at 100 yards with it. I have a target I shot in 1991 using a 2-1/2x scope with 5 shots into 1/2". That was when I was only 45 and could see pretty well. At 71, my eyes aren't what they once were, but the rifle still is. I took it to NY State for the rifle season last year, but didn't see any shooters.

I have some Big Game and intend to try it as well as H4350 and perhaps CFE223. My rifle is a woods gun, so I'm not terribly concerned about velocity. A buddy has two Model 700s in 7mm-08 and he loads H4350 with 130 grain bullets for over 3,000 fps in a 24" barrel. I would use 120 grain TTSXs in that rifle if I were him.

I had luck with H414 and 140 TTSX's. Have not found a good load for 120's in my 7mm-08? I really need to sit down at the bench again and find something. I would also recommend trying magnum primers with this powder. I started some load development with the 154 Hornady but have yet to shoot it. I would like to stay in the 120/140 range for my needs. Good luck FC.

Tagging to follow along.

I have found that to get both velocity and accuracy, this is a pretty good technique:
1. Select your best load with a fairly temp insensitive powder, of approp burn rate. This would include H4895, RL15, and H4350.
2. Stick to a hard cup primer. This will include CCI, W-W, and Rem, at least, maybe others.
3. Pick your best load from three powders, and increase until casehead expansion says stop.
4. Now adjust seating depth [starting from 0.050 clear] carefully until you have the most accurate load w/o pressure signs. Reduce load if you run into them.
5. At most accurate seating depth, adjust powder charge to get best velocity.
6. This is not foolproof, be careful!. If you are really dedicated, do it for all three powders.

Hope this will at least give you someplace to start. If you hate all the results, get a new Kreiger barrel installed by a really good smith.

Good Luck!

Recommend H4350 or H414 with the 140 TTSX. Play around with seating depth and try mag primers with 414. You should get where you want to be with both velocity and accuracy.

The most accurate load I have found for a 7mm-08 was 46.3 grains of H-380. This is a maximum load so start low and work up. Barnes at one time listed this load on their website. For some reason they do not list it any more. This load shot 1/2 inch groups in my Browning X-Bolt and Ruger American. I have neither rifle now, but the TTSX was a good bullet for deer and hogs.

Ramshot HUNTER or BIGGAME

I don't mean to hijack the thread but what powders are you guys using for heavier bullets (156 to 160 grain bullets)? Factory Norma 156 grain Oryx's work really well in my 7-08, and I would like to try to come close the results if possible. I've used RL 15, 17 and Varget on 140 grain bullets with decent results. Varget seems to do the best with RL 17 being a close second with respect to accuracy.

H4350 is usually my first powder of choice in the 7-08

Mine loves. H-380 also. 47 gr will give 1/2 inch groups all day with the 140's TSX

Another very good 7mm-08 powder is Norma 204. Norma URP is pretty close, may be the same.

Very consistant, clean and accurate. Norma makes a premium powder.

Not on the list, just threw it in.

DF

Thanks for the ideas, all.

I'll finally get a chance to get to the range tomorrow, and I've got some test loads made with H4350 and H414. We'll see what it tells me.

FC

I'd be looking at Varget before H414. It and H4350 are generally winners, and neither will give the big temp-related velocity swings of H414.

I would also check the CFE223, since you already have it, and based on Barnes online data.

When I had a 7mm/08 many years ago H4350 gave top velocity with 139gn/140gn bullets and W760 performed well with 130gn bullet.
A few weeks back I bought a new Winchester model 70 Supergrade in 7mm/08 and the first powder I plan on using with 140gn Nosler Accubonds will be Reloder 17.

The H4350 gave accuracy at lesser charges, but opened-up near max. If I'd be content with a measly 2,619 fps, I'd have a great load.

The H414 got really close to 2,800 fps, but with lousy groups.

Next up: Varget, R15, and CFE223.

FC

What was your 4350 load?

48.0 gets me 2,810 in my 22" Montana.

48.0g H4350 got me to 2,695 fps this morning... and a 2.253" 4-shot group.

47.0g H4350 put 3 in .437", and the 4th edged it out to 1.103", total.

Again, with 120's, this rifle didn't get the velocities I was expecting with R15 (2,978 fps @ 45.0g) and Varget (2,994 fps @ 45.0g). CFE223 did perk them along, though (3,193 fps with 49.0g).

Now that I've seen that the 140's are capable of hanging tightly together, I'm eager to see if they'll do so at a faster clip with CFE223.

If nothing else, I enjoy the pursuit.

FC

I understand wanting to use powder that's on hand, but with Big Game readily avaible why don't you buy a pound?





P

Was that the one that got recalled? Or was that Hunter?

FC

Some lots of Hunter, no Big Game. It's all I use in 3 7mm-08s, but 140 Partitions.






P

Surprisingly, I had no Big Game in the house so picked up a pound to try in my current 7-08 (Kimber MT).

So far this rifle seems to dote on Varget and H4350 with a 140 Accubond. It can't abide Partitions (too bad).

To shoot this week I have Varget, H4350, Big Game, RL16, RL17, and 2000 MR loaded.

Like FC, I enjoy the pursuit (sometimes).

Folic, in your shoes I'd add enough H4350 to hit 2,800, or a bit less (if yours is a 22" or longer bbl).

It was already fairly crunchy at seating time. And yup, it's a 22": Gander Mtn version of the 700 MR.

FC

Yeah, I get that.

Varget will give a lot of room for the long Barnes, and get you close to 2,800.

I've gotten great velocity/accuracy results with 140's with both H4350 and Big Game, but don't trust non-tipped TSX's to always expand in calibers from 6mm to .30, having encountered a few that didn't over the years. The Tipped TSX's always have always expanded so far in those calibers (or at least all that I've seen at work), but they're longer, and the H4350 load I used was with 140 Partitions, where 50 grains got 2900 or so and sub-inch accuracy. But even with the considerably shorter Partition, that was just ALL the H4350 that could fit inside the case and still seat the bullet, the reason I haven't tried it with 140 Tipped TSX's.

Big Game solves the powder-room problem easily, and so far has proven pretty darn temp-resistant in cartridge/bullet combinations including the .30-06 with 150's and 9.3x62 with 286's.

I like IMR 4350, great groups good velocity

Interesting line up of powders.

I have them all and am also working up loads.

Look forward to your data.

DF

Looks like CFE223 is going to be the ticket for this rifle with 140 TSXs, too. I've seldom seen Barnes data (updated on the web site) be hotter than Hodgdon's, but the Barnes max got them to 2,785 fps in the 22" barrel. Groups were slightly < 1", even with the horrendous X-mark trigger. I can live with that.

...until I can get ahold of some Big Game to try...

FC

If that was with a max load, your velocities are somewhat slow based on my experience with a couple different 7-08s, but I don't think 100 fps is going to matter much. CFE-223 has given me some very good groups but for whatever reason has not been as consistently repeatable as some others. Glad it's working for you, and best of luck going forward. Great cartridge.

IMR 4350

That's what it looks like, gauging from the data I've seen. I've got other rifles that show more velocity for a given load than I'd have expected, so I suppose it all comes out in the wash.

If animals can't read head stamps, they probably can't read chronys, either.

FC

This is right in-line with what my Montana does.

48grns of H-4350 under a 145 Speer GS gets me 2820fps and slightly sub-moa accuracy.

+1 BG.

You can find it if you persist. Powder Valley has had it in the past, not sure about now.

DF

I'm heading across the Southern Tier next week. Maybe I can find a shop along the way that's got it.

FC

I burn H4350 and CFE223 in the 7mm-08 with 140's and 120's, respectively.

Just checked. Powder Valley has BG in stock.

DF

Barnes 140 gr. data with their recommended powder, BG, and accuracy load at 2,910 fps.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/files/2017/08/7mm-08Remington.pdf

DF

Just found some. A few dead-ends pointed me to a little store I'd never heard of. There wasn't a single other item in the place that interested me, but they did have BG. Time to cook-up some test rounds.

FC

IMO and in the opinions of others, BG is the best for speed plus accuracy in the 7-08. There are a few marginally faster powders, but not by much.

BG, like others in the family, meters beautifully. Load some with std. and mag. primers. Some say a mag primer will tighten groups with ball powder, although I've not seen much difference with my 7-08.

I like Varget with 120's and notice that Barnes does, too.

DF

Big Game is "messy" with my Chargemaster! I always get powder falling onto the scale (misses the pan) for some reason? Still testing it out but found a possible load with 140 TTSX and both 46.0 grains and 47.0 grains. The 46.0 grain shot under an inch with a cold barrel shot. The 47.0 managed two bullets in the same hole and 1 bullet vertical 1 inch?

I wonder if 49.1 (c) loading of it would be too much pressure in my firearm?

No need for the chargemaster with Big Game. It meters great thru a common powder measure, like my old Uniflow.

That caught my attention, too. Ramshot's top # is 47.8 grains of Big Game with the 140 TTSX. I can't remember the last time I saw Barnes have a higher max than a powder mfgr.

FC

It bounces out, I made a taller riser for the pan & get less mess but some still makes its way out.

Yup! Only downside to Big Game. Can you change the speed on the chargemaster? That speed is great for 4350 however.

Don't have a Chargemaster, first I heard of that.

It meters so slick and uniform thru a Uniflow or similar, may not need the Chargemaster with BG.

I love working with it and shooting it.

DF

Good to know Dirtfarmer, I haven't tried out my redding powder measurer yet. Guess it's time to start.

Try RL17 , I am using it in My 7-08 with the 150 eldX , Barrel is 24" and im getting 2860 fps, my son shot a bull elk last night at 330 yards at the bullet went in just behind shoulder and exited thru the far shoulder.. Awesome performance in the 7-08, the gun will do 4" groups at 700 yards.
And i dont need guys to tell me thats way to fast in the 7-08, I have 5 loading on the nosler brass now and it is as tight as the first time i loaded it..

tag

Very well said 243win ,bravo!!!

Pm sent for details.





P

I hit pressure at 48.5 grains of big game with cci mag primers and 140 ttsx today. I had several primers fail to ignite? 5 out of 22 rounds loaded failed to go off? Did not have that issue with the standard cci large rifle primers. Mag primers appeared to help the group's though slightly

Bad batch, seated too deep...?

DF

I used the same hand priming tool, not sure why it would seat them deeper than standard? I'm guessing bad batch.

What kinda primer strike did you get?

DF

They looked ok, the primer looked "coned" or "bubbled" around it? I hit one primer, recocked and hit it again and it went bang. The other 4 would not fire even if I attempted to re fire it. I purchased these primers several years ago and don't usually use magnum primers. I will contact CCI when I get a chance and see what they say?

That's where I ended the chase, too. 48.0 had a good group, velocity, and an ES of 6. 48.5 had an awful group, velocities all over the place, and some shiny marks on the case heads.

Next, to shorten COAL and see what happens. May also try a magnum primer.

FC

Nice, what velocity did you get?

i got 2,850 fps average and just a hair over a 1" group for 4 shots. I used Hornady brass and CCI 200 primers. For a 22" barrel that's been slow with every powder I've tried, I'll gladly take it.

The next best powder in this rifle (again, with the 140 TTSX) was CFE223, where a max load gave me 2,779 fps and a 1.8" group for 6 shots.

I suppose the next quandary would be whether I'd chose a .284 140 grain TTSX at 2,850, or a .308 165 grain TTSX at the same 2,850, to take as a backup on the goat hunt next month. Ah, but such a multi-page pissin' match would be better suited to it's own thread in another forum.

FC

Go magnum primer, you might be surprised. I use WLRM in mine. New primers, not subject to the recall.





P

Well go kill a goat....

tag

This

H414 is very temperature sensitive....

I have not had any issues with H414 when hunting Nebraska from 90 degrees and humidity to low teens. I love H414.

I did so today, and was really surprised:

* Rem 9 1/2 Magnum: slowest, and by far the biggest group.

* CCI 200: good velocity, low ES, and excellent group

* Fed 210: fastest, bigger ES than CCI, and group opened up


I'd have figured the magnum would have been fastest, and I've never seen Fed 210's outpace CCI's. I guess ya never know 'til you send 'em down the tube to check for yourself.

Anyhoo, I figure .66" groups and 2,800+ fps is goat-worthy. Hopefully there'll be pics to show in about 3 weeks.

FC

So what is your final load? I'm guessing 48 grains of Big Game, but not sure. I ask because I recently bought a Nosler 48 Liberty rifle in 7mm-08 and am working on 140 grain bullet loads for it. In my rifle, 46 grains of BG gives me 2,800 even. My old favorite load of 43 grains of WW-748 is about 30-40 fps faster. Same for my other go-to load, 47 grains of WW-760. I would prefer using BG as it is less temp-sensitive.

What gun are using for this load.

Bullet: 140 grain Barnes TTSX
Powder: Ramshot Big Game
Charge: 48.0 grains
Brass: Hornady, 3x fired since virgin and annealed
Primer: CCI 200
COAL: 2.800
Rifle: Rem 700 Cabela's Mountain Guide (22" barrel)

This rifle has been slow with every powder/bullet combination I've tried. I'd have stopped at 2,800-ish if I had gotten there with another powder, or a lesser charge of this one. As it was, I was usually in the low-mid 2,600's, even near max with CFE223, R15, Varget, H414, and H4350.

Surely one of those would have worked well. Nope. Magnum primers will tighten groups with ball powders. Nope. Of course a Barnes likes a good jump to the lands. Not in this rifle.

I'm grateful for all the advice I've received. I just had to run through all the permutations with this quirky rifle. I'm kind of unsure why I bothered, other than being really curious... and more than a li'l stubborn...

FC