Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Big Game Points System 101

Same age as Mudhen here. I have killed more than that ,but I have been after it for 47 years.I didn't hunt every year for the ten years I lived in NM,but most.Since moving to Colorado in 74,I probably have not missed two elk seasons. For quite a few years now Colorado has been offering A and B tags ,therefore a person could purchase two elk tags a year.. One year ,it was three. I have always hunted resident, public land, I don't go out of state. All DYI ,except for one hunt in Alberta. . I did do one hunt where I had 21 points to draw here in Colorado. During those 21 years, I did OTC and still killed elk most every year. Most guys I know do not have the drive to hunt that hard.I see it every year. I'm not so much on deer I'll shoot them,but don't hunt them hard like I do elk.

Landowners can get private land owner tags,but it is not guaranteed.Many of those tags are used by outfitters that pay a fee to the rancher and CPW offers some pretty generous seasons , time wise to private land compared to public land

If you hire a guide or an outfitter are you exempt from points requirements?

Quick answer, no, however some states have landowner tags that you can buy from the landowner.

So if I wanted to hire a Montana elk guide for 2019, how would I book when I am not even sure I would be drawn?

I don't know if MT still does it, but if you submit an outfitters contract, it gives you an up to draw a tag.

"If you hire a guide or an outfitter are you exempt from points requirements?"--------------- Depends on where the outfitter is conducting business, public land or private land. If the landowner has private landowner tags ,they can sell them to anoutfitter.

Actually I've killed ~45 elk , most in Colorado, but also in a number of other states and BC. Prior to the 90's relatively few units in Colorado were limited license, only a few deer licenses/seasons were limited.

When I began deer and elk hunting in 1971, a guy could kill an elk in archery season and one in rifle season. Archery was generally 5 weekends long, the single rifle season spanned 4 weekends. By the time I graduated from high school I had killed 5 elk with rifle and/or bow. It wasn't until the late 70's that you were limited to one elk per year, but could buy an archery tag and if unsuccessful could still rifle hunt for elk. In the late 70's Colorado began shorter, multiple seasons. In the 80's I could draw--and did--draw archery or 1st season rifle tags for Unit 61 with 1 preference point (unit 61 was among the first 3-4 units to go to a draw system for "quality" elk hunting).

By the 90's, the Colorado elk population was increasing almost exponentially (while the deer population was decreasing almost exponentially) the CPW started making tons of cow tags available, and to encourage more cow elk hunters began to create "B" and "C" tags, allowing a hunter to kill more than one elk.

I was fortunate to have a father who was an elk hunting looney back when there were not very many elk or elk hunters, and who was willing to drag a young boy on many of his elk hunts. Consequently I saw a quite a few elk killed before I was old enough to start elk hunting myself--I had a head start on the learning curve.......

As I like to tell my now 18 year old son (who has killed 5 elk) between his grampa and dear old dad, he has over a century of elk hunting experience to draw on!

As an added note, back in the 60's, when Colorado had 1.1 million deer (as opposed to today with 450,000 deer) Colorado was desperately trying to reduce deer numbers--especially in some areas like the Uncompahgre Valley.
--A guy could draw an early season rifle tag.
--OTC archery tag.
--OTC rifle tag, and the CPW would offer a doe tag, and throw in another buck tag for free for enticement.
--Draw a December rifle tag.

That's 5 deer. My dad pulled that off in 1966, and among the 5 deer he killed one buck scores 197 2/8 B&C and another buck scores 179 and change.

As an additional added note, in 1991 I drew an archery bighorn ram tag in the Sangre De Cristos with 2 preference points, and in 1993 drew the same tag with 1 preference point--those days are long gone.

In other words, what we see today in season structures and limits is quite different than in the past.

Casey

Thanks to all who responded to my question. Basically if I understand what you are saying a lot of it was some years ago and would be more difficult under the current point system unless you had a lot of time like saddle sore. Would that be a fair statement.? Maybe it m a bit confused still as some of you mentioned otc tags . Does that mean that states have areas that are on the point system and others that are Still it sounds as if it was set up by a. Philadelphia lawyer .

bangeye
In CO
There are OTC unlimited elk tags for the 2nd and 3rd rifle seasons in multiple GMUs for hunting on public land or private land with permission (difficult to get unless you have connections or big $$$ for trespass fee).
Draw licenses are good for public land or private land with permission with in the designated GMU only.
There are draw licenses that are only good for use on any private land with in the designated GMU WITH PERMISSION - not good for public land.
There are land owner tags which may be bought from the land owner which are only good for that particular property, though they are not necessarily tied to the usual season structure.
Typically when hunting private property with a guide/outfitter the price of a land owner tag is included with the hunt, again $$$$.
As I understand it when hunting with an outfitter on public land you must have an OTC tag or have drawn a tag for that unit.

Right or wrong, I blame the internet and forums like the 'fire for the huge upswing in western hunting which makes it so hard to draw a tag. And yes, I understand that the energy outfits have also contributed by putting so many non-resident guys in the oil and gas fields.

I started hunting colorado in the early 1970s because we had family there. Then my cousin from colorado and I went on a multi state hunting spree through colorado,wyoming, south dakota, and ending in Minnesota. I fell in love with Wyoming. And it used to be so easy...
Even 5 years ago it was much easier than now.

Sounds like a great,question for the guide. If I was thinking of booking a hunt, that's who I'd be asking, no one on here can give you as good an answer.

Guides operate in different areas. SOme have multiple areas they hunt, some don't. One had me apply for a tag I had a slim chance for, with a back-up plan if I didn''t draw. Only your guide will know what options you have. That's assuming you would pick your guide first, before the unit. Which is what I'd do.

Unit 36 in Idaho is an open elk hunt. It's in the Sawtooth Nat Recreation Area and is some of the prettiest country you'll find anywhere. For years, we'd apply for tags farther south and if we didn't draw, we'd buy OTC tags in 36. We'd just have to drive an extra 50 miles or so to hunt. They have a quota of about 1500 tags in 36 to keep it from being overhunted but they're 1st come, 1st served. Then things changed. A few years ago we didn't draw tags so a few weeks later we went to buy them, like we always had before, and they were sold out. That was unusual. Then they started selling out earlier every year. Now it's a total fiasco. Now they set a date a few days after the draw hunt results are out. At 10am they put 1/2 of the tags up for sale at vendors across the state. Then at noon they put the other 1/2 up for sale on the internet. They're sold out within a couple hours. I read that this year there were people waiting in line in front of the IDFG office 24 hrs in advance.

I'd bet guides in areas that are limited entry, there'd be a contingency on you drawing the tag. If they guide in a general unit, your odds of drawing are pretty darn good. Not sure about this year, but in the past few years the elk combo has been 100% draw.

Racking up a number of elk kills is still possible depending on where you live. My pard in ID kills one, and often, 2 a year and he doesn't hunt or put in for cow tags. In WY, I think it's not unheard of for a resident to end up with 2-4 elk tags in a year if they play their cards right. Couple those types of opportunities with the willingness to hunt as a NR and you can still rack up some pretty impressive numbers over time.

I just thought I was confused before... after reading this thread, I'm thoroughly confused. I admit, I didn't look up any of the suggested info.

I'm glad all I have to do is go to the store, ask them to give me my tags, permits, license, etc., and go hunting. Of course, we dont have elk, sheep, goats, moose, mule deer, etc, but what we got, we got plenty of and dont have to worry about drawing for a chance to hunt it.

In ID, there is a way to get a 2d elk tag. They put a quota on NON-resident tags. If there are any left on Aug 1, they go on sale to residents but still at the non-res price. Your 2d tag is going to be considerably more expensive than your 1st one.

I read into New Mexico's hunting regs yesterday. There a large chunk of the non-resident draw licences are issued to the guide pool. If I were interested in booking an elk hunt with ABC Guide Service, they would apply on my behalf with a deposit. If I were drawn, I am in with them. If not, they return the deposit. Many of the guides report draw success rates in excess of 50 percent.

Yep.Outfitters have a big inflence on G&F departments