Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Helping Solve The Medium Bore Conundrum

How many heavy bullets does a man need? Midway lists 4 bullets over 250 grains. Woodleigh makes a .358 bullet at 275 grains and 2 at 310 grains (RN and solid), Swift makes their A-Frame in a 280 grain .358. Besides these, Hawk Bullets makes a 265 grain, 275 grain and a 300 grain bullet in various profiles and jacket thickness and Northfork makes a 270 grain bullet as well. There's a host of makers at 250 grains for .358 caliber rifles. I've seen the 250 Partition and A-Frame from a Whelen penetrate enough moose (and mature brown bears) that I know heavier bullets of similar construction offer no advantage when fired from the Whelen. I once thought that the .358 Norma would be a noticeable improvement, as compared to the Whelen. I twisted mine 1:12 and I've used the "bigger" bullets enough to know that the only measurable difference in the field is increased recoil. If limited to standard cup & core bullets, maybe there are some advantages to heavier bullets on large animals, but I've zero interest in them for hunting moose and brown bear with a Whelen.

I find myself agreeing with Brad above. If you need something more than a 30/06, get a .375. Somewhat lacking from this thread is why a medium is needed.

Most mediums, IMO, have very little to no advantage over 30/06 class cartridges today simply because of today's better bullets. I love the .338, as an example, but it simply isn't needed today. It came about as an answer to reliable terminal effects in the cup and core bullet era. Lighter calibers simply didn't work so well on larger game; now they do.

I'm separating need from want. If a person is filled with euphoria with the thought of a medium bore, I'm all for 'em. Get one. I just don't need one any more. But I do have a nice .375 H&H that they will put in my coffin with me!

I'd go 9.3x62.

I shoot a 9.3x62 which seems to have the advantage because it was once an '06, so it carries like one, but hits stuff like the .375 that weighs about 3 pounds more and has been retired from hunting since the 9.3 arrived. I have yet to see a .308 180 or 220 grain partition act like a 286 grain 9.3 partition. Yet strangely the 286 grain 9.3 does the exact same job the 300 grain .375 partition does. At least on the deer, mountain goats, and brown bears around here.

I think that you've made a good argument for the 9.3x62 over the 375 H&H.

My 375 is a post-'64 Model 70 that is a little longer and heavier than I'd prefer to carry very far, but whenever I fire it, I appreciate the extra weight. OTOH, my 9.3x62 is a mannlicher stocked carbine that is light, handier, much more pleasant to carry, and not at all unpleasant to shoot. The 286 grain Partition seems like a winner for thin-skinned game and Nosler's 286 grain solid might be equally good for thick-skinned game, but I've never loaded or shot any of them, so I don't know that they are.

You're right about slow twist. Remington has been stubborn to keep their slow twists in a lot of chamberings, incl the 35Whelen which remains 1:16". I've had several 7600s in 35W and all would shoot 250s w/o problems but I would prefer a 1:12" for good measure. I just had a M700 re-tubed with a Lilja 1:12". For most NA hunting, a 250gr bullet is plenty heavy in a 35cal. Between NPs and TSX/TTSX, one could do ok finding a good 250gr bullet. If I wanted heavier, I'd get a 375magnum.

Here is my .02 on the matter.

The 338-06 is a great round but I would rather have a 30-06 loaded with 200 gr + bullets, I just am not sure it is much more gun than a 30-06. If I wanted to 338 I would look at the 338 Win Mag and use something like RL 15, Varget or H 4895 for performance a bit better than the 338-06 plus the ability to buy factory ammo if necessary.

To me it comes down to the 35 Whelen or 9.3x62, if you are a heavy bullet type of guy then the 9.3x62 is the one you want. For running 200-250's then the Whelen is the one you want. I realise you can get light bullets for the 9.3x62 and heavy bullets for the 35 Whelen but I'm just talking in general terms. I had my Whelen built with a 1 in 12 twist so I could shoot the heavy bullets but in the end decided that for a heavy bullet 250's are more than enough for anything here. I will say the 275 gr Woodleigh is an impressive bullet and was accurate.

The 35 Whelen shoots a bit flatter with something like a 225 gr Accubond and is excellent on game but the 9.3x62 with it's long heavy bullets would be a hammer. Like someone said earlier it would be like comparing a 270 Winchester to a 280 Remington, there are differences but in the real world there is no difference on how well the work on game. Unlike the 338-06 you can find ammo for the 35 Whelen and 9.3x62 if you ever needed to.

I haven't owned the 9.3 but have the other two (both Improved models). I've had this conversation with hunting buddies ad nauseum. Although I LOVE my 338-06AI and hunt with it a lot, I'd remove it from your choice. Others have talked about an '06 with a 200 grain bullet, and I agree--it flat works. From my perspective, a medium bore should legitimately handle a 250 grain bullet. As an example, I don't shoot anything above a 215 grain in my 338 (right now, I'm using the 210 NPT), but I know many others do (especially 225's). I experimented with the 230 Fail Safes when they were being closed out by Midway, and they worked alright but the velocities were wanting.

My 35 Whelen AI shoots bugeyes with the 225 SGK over Reloder 12 & 15, and I think most owners would argue the Whelen earned its stripes as a 250 grain rifle.

I have thought long & hard about the 9.3--the energy from the 286 grain offerings is awfully compelling. That said, I own .375 caliber rifles and am happy with the 270/300 grain selection there. Plus, .366/.375 is big bore to me, but we're splitting hairs.

Enjoy the decision!

Exactamundo. I was also thinking this. One of my favorite m1917's was a 300wby, but 338wm would get my vote...

Found those pics ....... perfect for this project

I don't need 36 bullets, or 197, or 13. I need one good bullet. Construction trumps sectional density.

I'd like to know what I couldn't kill cleanly in North America with a 225gr Barnes or a 250gr Nosler Partition from a Whelen that a 9.3x62 will flatten because of a magical .02 increase in sectional density.

If the biggest consideration was bullet selection, we'd only shoot 30cal. There's enough out there now to keep any shooter happy.

A few years back I too was considering what to do with my old, sporterized 1917 30-06 rifle... 338-06, 35 Whelen, 9.3, 375...

Tried some 220 and 200 gr bullets in it, left it as a 30-06, and now my son uses it regularly to take bucks 'n bear.

Simple, effective, easy. However, it's not a "medium bore." Just a great old rifle still working well, 100 years later!

Regards, Guy

Note that .35 Whelen and 9.3x62 have a lot more options in loaded factory ammo according to Midway. I admit I'm a Whelen fan, but someday might like a 9.3x62.
I've had good results with the Whelen with 225 gr Accubonds.

If the donor action were a standard length and weight (eg, Win M-70 or Rem M-700), I'd consider either the 35 Whelen or the 9.3x62 depending on whether you want a bit lighter bullet (225 gr, .358") or heavier bullets (eg 286 gr, .366"), as the terminal ballistics are indistinguishable from each other. Modern bullet construction makes the exact choice largely moot, as once you find a bullet weight and type, you're likely to settle on it - mediums tend to be specialist rifles for a specific range of hunting situations, like Africa - at least IME. Additionally, if you choose to rebore, the chances are high that if it's doable for one, either bore would work, provided your current barrel is not a very light contour.

However, you're starting with a pretty hefty action in the Enfield, so it makes little sense to me to go with a 338-06 or even a 35 Whelen. If you're leaning to a metric, I'd go with the 9x64 Brenneke, even though it'll need opening the bolt face, it's a step up from the 9.3x62 - heavier bullets can be pushed faster - and knocking on the door of the 375 H&H.

I consider typical mediums to be true mediums starting with the .375 and better yet, the .416s and 404s (.423"). Depending what use you have in mind, with your 1917 action and your stated intent to re-barrel, I'd choose a medium medium bore (.375") or a heavy medium (.416 or .423"). OTW, a good heavy bullet in the -06, or a rechamber to a 300 H&H or 300 WM, would seem to make sense.

Guess it depends on the level of lunacy you're ready to entertain. If you've truly been afflicted by medium bore fever, you're entering a world of incurable possibilities - medium bore mania.