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Campfire 'Bwana
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I have not heard of a MK VII (7) round in 175gr. Just 174.
The MK VIII (8) was in 175, really made for the Vickers MG, but again, both military rounds and anybody in their right mind would be loathe to use them on a nice double. And you're still an ass, but were still waiting for your answers,,,
Last edited by jorgeI; 08/26/17.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Good to know Jerry has one! As a non-British Commonwealth person, he should rightfully surrender that immediately to the nearest appropriate British Commonwealth person (subject of HM Elizabeth Regina), who would, of course, be me ...
Since I live between you two, I shall take it upon myself to act as deliveryman. Of course, it takes a very long time to travel from my place to Corpus Christi, maybe five or ten years if weather and road conditions cooperate.  Ed LOL Doc and Jorge, and yes, beings Ed's the centerline benchmark way point, he'll be delegated issuance.  to be serious, all three of you guys are welcome to use that little double on a hunt, just let me know when and where ;] The little 215 gr Woodleighs regulate beautifully at 2165 fps, ask Whelen Nut, he pulled up and rang TexnCals 100 yard steel with both barrels.
Trump Won!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Good to know Jerry has one! As a non-British Commonwealth person, he should rightfully surrender that immediately to the nearest appropriate British Commonwealth person (subject of HM Elizabeth Regina), who would, of course, be me ...
Since I live between you two, I shall take it upon myself to act as deliveryman. Of course, it takes a very long time to travel from my place to Corpus Christi, maybe five or ten years if weather and road conditions cooperate. Ed LOL Doc and Jorge, and yes, beings Ed's the centerline benchmark way point, he'll be delegated issuance. to be serious, all three of you guys are welcome to use that little double on a hunt, just let me know when and where ;] The little 215 gr Woodleighs regulate beautifully at 2165 fps, ask Whelen Nut, he pulled up and rang TexnCals 100 yard steel with both barrels. Man, you guys all in one place. That would call for a film crew... DF
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...Man, you guys all in one place. That would call for a film crew... DF No, it would call for a total media blackout. I have a reputation to maintain and blackmail is such an ugly word. Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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ACTION!!!!!..................................................................................................
Trump Won!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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...Man, you guys all in one place. That would call for a film crew... DF No, it would call for a total media blackout. I have a reputation to maintain and blackmail is such an ugly word. Ed Evidence...  And, you could trust us with the DVD, We're not like those Dems who Bleachbit a hard drive, bust up electonic devices with hammers, hide emails, then lie about it. We'd make sure it went viral...  Full disclosure, don't ya know... Inquiring minds and such...  DF
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Campfire Outfitter
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I have not heard of a MK VII (7) round in 175gr. Just 174.
The MK VIII (8) was in 175, really made for the Vickers MG, but again, both military rounds and anybody in their right mind would be loathe to use them on a nice double. And you're still an ass, but were still waiting for your answers,,, Yes, Mark VII's were 174. I used to shoot up a bunch of them.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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There is no chance that the 225 gr Accubond bullet I shoot in my 388 Win Mag would have been able to make that shot and kill that kudu.
And that is why I would take my 375 H&H with 300 gr A-Frames for Lord Derby Eland in the CAR, Jorge. prexactly. There's a reason for the adage"Use Enough Gun".... A 225 grain TSX would penetrate enough in my experience. JWP, I decided to test some 225 TTSXs. Got 2875 fps, easy bolt opening, no pressure (apparent) and this three shot group at 100. Rifle is a pre-64 Custom Shop rig w a Leupold VX-6 2X20X42 (ill duplex). It's my designated "cate rifle and it shoots anything you feed it. Had it sighted in w 210 TTSXs at 2930 fps, but JBM calculator has the 225 a bit less flat at 300. ![[Linked Image]](http://i.imgur.com/uJBiZhR.jpg)
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'd take my old FN/Sako in 375 Wby and shoot 300gr Partitions at around 2,800 fps, in other words, their factory offering. I can't load it any better or faster. It's a hammer at both ends.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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You have never seen or heard of any .303 British ball Mk7 and Mk8 both in 175gn....? They were using that kind of stuff way back 1940s.
what about .303cal 190 grain ball, never heard of that either?
Mk VII was a 174 gn bullet and Mk 8 while nominally a 175 gn bullet (though heavier bullets were sometimes loaded) was for beltfed machinegun use. While it could be de-linked such use was for emergencies only, as the Mk 8 load was known to be very erosive of rifle bores. It would be unlikely that anyone would pull apart some Vickers gun ammo to shoot in their double, and nor would it regulate if the rifle was regulated for standard 215 gn (as those I've seen have been) or Mk VII ammo. As well, the Mk 8 ball load is not what you actually described:
Some have used their favorite .303cal SxS chronographing 175gnRN 2000mv and drilled their eland dead at 195yd.
A 175 gn RN at 2000 fps doesn't match any .303 load of which I'm aware, and I've owned and used .303s for the better part of 40 years. Nominal velocity for a 174 Mk VII in a SMLE is 2440 fps, 400-odd fps higher. Who built a double to regulate for such a downloaded round?
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It would be unlikely that anyone would pull apart some Vickers gun ammo to shoot in their double,
I havent claimed anybody did such thing., it was simply a response to those two who said they had never heard of .303 175gn ammunition....nothing more nothing less. As well, the Mk 8 ball load is not what you actually described: Thats great, since nowhere have I said Mk8 and handloaded Hornady RN were the same thing.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Hornady's .303 RN is a 174 gn bullet, not 175. I have a box of them on the shelf in my gunroom. As well, you still have the issue of regulation with your "handload" to address. It tends to be quite tricky with smaller calibre doubles. Unless of course you are just making stuff up ...
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hornady's .303 RN is a 174 gn bullet, not 175..
LOL yes I know, is called a little typo...and by your own admission you still knew exactly which Hornady RN bullet I meant, it could only be that one, right? you still have the issue of regulation and you proved to have trouble with basic straight forward english. you accused the seperate Mk8 as not being the handloaded Hornady RN i described. which makes zero sense. Now, regarding regulation, I know you can regulate .303 SxS to a different weight by playing around with powers, or the more expensive regulation option of having barrels heated- jig adjusted then test fired etc, with the handload of ones preference....sorry, I dont know how the .303 double owner had it done. Unless of course you are just making stuff up ...
Not me, but somebody else maybe....I am not a member of AR but have outwardly followed some interesting threads over the yrs. .303 sxs 175RN Hornady was posted there under something about calibres for eland or other. The complete .500cal miss <15 yd jumbo report was posted by a long time regular member that frequented the Af. section, nobody else of the regular circle D-G AR 'Africa' crowd called him out..BS or exaggeration?. I dont know....how do you tell? iF I told you a guy desperately needed to borrow another spare big cal. rifle to kill his elephant with 13 or so shots total , because he only came afield with only 6 or so rounds, while a well know PH just watched the whole protracted fiasco unfold, would you believe it?....yes or no?.....ive seen footage a few times, will try to find it.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Ranger
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[
I've interviewed quite a few PH's over the past 4-5 years for a project I'm working on, and they almost all tell me that the vast majority of their clients these days show up with a rifle they are quite competent with, regardless of caliber. I wonder if the tales you're referring to are just that... tales, not facts. One PH told me that 25 years ago it was not uncommon for a man to show up in camp with a brand new rifle he didn't know how to handle, but that that has become a rare thing in the present day.
I think that part of that phenomina is that RSA and Nambian hunts can now be done in 7-10 days, and are affordable to a much larger range of working stiff than the classic safaris were. Before the late 1980's there was not much of a safari industry in South Africa, much less Nambia. I went during the Aparthied years, and an American was a curiosity. Traditional safaris in Botswana, Tanzania or going back to Kenya were still largely 21 day full bag affairs that were expensive, and affordable largely to a wealthier clientele that weren't red neck gun nuts. Now, red neck gun nuts (us) can save up enough cash to do a 10 day 7 animal RSA hunt, and work up 2 rifles and loads to go with it. Next part of the eqaution is where the clients are from. Brits don't practice much, and neither do most Europeans. No opportunity.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The above post has so much inane, wrong bullshit why bother pointing it out but preserved for posterity... Hornady's .303 RN is a 174 gn bullet, not 175..
LOL yes I know, is called a little typo...and by your own admission you still knew exactly which Hornady RN bullet I meant, it could only be that one, right? you still have the issue of regulation and you proved to have trouble with basic straight forward english. you accused the seperate Mk8 as not being the handloaded Hornady RN i described. which makes zero sense. Now, regarding regulation, I know you can regulate .303 SxS to a different weight by playing around with powers, or the more expensive regulation option of having the barrels heated then test fired etc, with the handload of ones preference....sorry, I cannot really tell you how the .303 double owner had it done. Unless of course you are just making stuff up ...
Not me, but somebody else maybe....I am not a member of AR but have outwardly followed some interesting threads over the yrs. .303 sxs 175RN Hornady was posted there under something about calibres for eland or other. The complete .500cal miss <15 yd jumbo report was posted by a long time regular member that frequented the Af. section, nobody else of the regular circle D-G AR 'Africa' crowd called him out..BS or exaggeration?. I dont know....how do you tell? iF I told you a guy desperately needed to borrow another spare big cal. rifle to kill his elephant with 13 or so shots total , because he only came afield with only 6 or so rounds, while a well know PH just watched the whole protracted fiasco unfold, would you believe it?....yes or no?.....ive seen footage a few times, will try to find it.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jul 2012
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The above post has so much inane, wrong bullshit why bother pointing it out but preserved for posterity... Hornady's .303 RN is a 174 gn bullet, not 175..
LOL yes I know, is called a little typo...and by your own admission you still knew exactly which Hornady RN bullet I meant, it could only be that one, right? you still have the issue of regulation and you proved to have trouble with basic straight forward english. you accused the seperate Mk8 as not being the handloaded Hornady RN i described. which makes zero sense. Now, regarding regulation, I know you can regulate .303 SxS to a different weight by playing around with powers, or the more expensive regulation option of having the barrels heated then test fired etc, with the handload of ones preference....sorry, I cannot really tell you how the .303 double owner had it done. Unless of course you are just making stuff up ...
Not me, but somebody else maybe....I am not a member of AR but have outwardly followed some interesting threads over the yrs. .303 sxs 175RN Hornady was posted there under something about calibres for eland or other. The complete .500cal miss <15 yd jumbo report was posted by a long time regular member that frequented the Af. section, nobody else of the regular circle D-G AR 'Africa' crowd called him out..BS or exaggeration?. I dont know....how do you tell? iF I told you a guy desperately needed to borrow another spare big cal. rifle to kill his elephant with 13 or so shots total , because he only came afield with only 6 or so rounds, while a well know PH just watched the whole protracted fiasco unfold, would you believe it?....yes or no?.....ive seen footage a few times, will try to find it. You're right. The bloke is either very drunk, or a complete idiot. Maybe both.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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That would be an insult to drunks and stupid people...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Outfitter
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Given the "popularity" of killing, stopping, enough power etc, threads, I thought to start one here and hopefully avoid the freak show and the usual suspects with this example: Let's say you just dropped large coin on a deposit for Lord Derby Eland in the CAR. BIG COIN. You have just about every caliber/rifle available in your arsenal. So, do you take the "only shot placement/bullet construction" matters angle and take your 243 or whatever "AI" or your 375 H&H with (my choices) 270gr Barnes Triple Shocks, Swift AFrame ? Fire away....
PS: My philosophy:
In my experience, which is of course limited, all else being equal - and by that I mean equal bullet performance and shot placement, and non-CNS hits - bigger diameter bullets at higher velocities kill faster. If that's the choice, the answer's obvious: .375. Personally I would use North Fork 300 grain soft points, having had success with them in the past. But everything has it's purpose. John Kingsley-Heath, in his book, "Hunting the Dangerous Game of Africa," claims that the .243 is the best cartridge for leopard over bait. Why? Because the nervous system of cats is very susceptible to shock from high velocity and leopards don't weigh very much.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Campfire Ranger
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Given the "popularity" of killing, stopping, enough power etc, threads, I thought to start one here and hopefully avoid the freak show and the usual suspects with this example: Let's say you just dropped large coin on a deposit for Lord Derby Eland in the CAR. BIG COIN. You have just about every caliber/rifle available in your arsenal. So, do you take the "only shot placement/bullet construction" matters angle and take your 243 or whatever "AI" or your 375 H&H with (my choices) 270gr Barnes Triple Shocks, Swift AFrame ? Fire away....
PS: My philosophy:
In my experience, which is of course limited, all else being equal - and by that I mean equal bullet performance and shot placement, and non-CNS hits - bigger diameter bullets at higher velocities kill faster. Begs the question, "Is there "too much" gun? Well, maybe. As you have seen, I have a full mount bongo. Took him with my .450 #2 NE in the shoulder with 500 gr Woodliegh SP. Taxidermist had some work to cover up the exit hole.  Truth is, mostly because the hide was not prepared well in the field, but that is another story. If I had that hunt to do over, I'd use my 9.3 x 62, though I can't think of a better hunt to use a Savage 99 TD in .300.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Campfire 'Bwana
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[
But everything has it's purpose. John Kingsley-Heath, in his book, "Hunting the Dangerous Game of Africa," claims that the .243 is the best cartridge for leopard over bait. Why? Because the nervous system of cats is very susceptible to shock from high velocity and leopards don't weigh very much.
Well, there's another example. I have that book as well. But he's a PH, so what does he know (sarcasm font on)
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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