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OP
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hell no !...end of my discussion.
You better be afraid of a ghost!!
"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops
Woody
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Snowflake military?
Better off without them.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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If we live long enough, we all have regrets. But the ones that nag at us the most are the ones in which we know we had a choice.
Doug
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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[bleep] no ... volunteer army at least they know what they got themselves into. Conscript is not the way to go.
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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A draft might have a few good results. Letters from draftees to their Senators/Congressman might break up some of the fiefdoms that have developed in the military.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Snowflake military?
Better off without them. You can be sure that the snowflake mentality we presently see would be lessened by the cloud of duty looming in front of many of them. That said, we're better off without.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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OP
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I guess my point was, Once they went thru boot camp and served, they would no longer be snowflakes. They might grow up.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
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I guess my point was, Once they went thru boot camp and served, they would no longer be snowflakes. They might grow up. Not the Boot Camp we are running nowadays, not even in Parris Island. Incidentally, the "Greatest Generation's" war was fought with mostly a conscript armed force (about 66%). In turn Vietnam had only about 25% draftees.....
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
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I guess my point was, Once they went thru boot camp and served, they would no longer be snowflakes. They might grow up. They might grow the fug up if the government quit giving them all the money for college, quit subsidizing their schools, and started enforcing the law when they break it, and they knew they weren't gonna move into mom and dad's basement after 8 years of college with a doctorate in Snowflakeism.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
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I guess my point was, Once they went thru boot camp and served, they would no longer be snowflakes. They might grow up. The idea that the Armed Forces should be some sort of Reform School went out a long long time ago. We don't want and cant use anyone who does not want to be there and who does not meet the very strict standards for enlistment. These people simply drag others down with them and gum up the works, being vastly more trouble than they are worth. I served under both the draft era and the all-volunteer force and I can tell you from personal experience the difference in the quality of the force is the difference of night and day . Today, only about 30% of persons aged 17-27 can meet the qualifications needed to enlist , if we start dragging in the other dregs we will have nothing but trouble.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Hell no !...end of my discussion. Ditto. I don't know a single person still in uniform that proposes to bring back the draft. No exceptions. While 95% of the people that serve with me are extraordinary, that other 5% are difficult to motivate even to do what they voluntarily swore to do. No thank you.
Last edited by David_Walter; 08/21/17.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Campfire Member
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Thanks for the input. Guess it was a bad idea. I know the military helped me. Jerry
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The snowflakes would have to toughen up to pass the test we currently have.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
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I think that the idea would be bad for all involved.
Those who sign up for the military, whether they need to shape up or not, do so of their own free will and the benefits are different when you want to be then when you don't... just like college...
Also, it'd turn the military into another leftist social experiment. The public schools have already been co-opted; how long would it take for Leftists to recognize forced military service as an opportunity to indoctrinate beyond high school years?
The reason the greatest generations' war had so many more volunteers was likely effected by the consensus in the country that we faced an existential threat. A big difference between WWII & Vietnam, where we never even could manage a formal declaration of war.
To me the fundamental question has to be "does the state own us?". If so the great American experiment has failed; if not then where does gov't get the authority?
Scary stuff to me; particularly when Conservatives start entertaining it.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
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_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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It may be the only way to reverse this indignant/communist momentum.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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A professional military is the best. You don't want screw ups fouling things up.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It would put skin in the game. It would make Americans have an American identity again.
It would need to be mandatory for all 18-20 year olds, not simply a lottery draft, like they do in Israel.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
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I do not think it should have stopped back when. But to start a draft now? I can't see it.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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4 year of collage for 4 years of service. Service comes before the collage unless the military has enough interest in the education.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,607 |
Hell no !...end of my discussion. Ditto. I don't know a single person still in uniform that proposes to bring back the draft. No exceptions. While 95% of the people that serve with me are extraordinary, that other 5% are difficult to motivate even to do what they voluntarily swore to do. No thank you. You know one now, even though I retired in 08. In my view a Draft does several good things. It relieves the constant high pressure business of recruiting and believe me it is tough, provides the services with a ready use manpower pool in the less sophisticated MOS, then after their tour is up they can decide whether to stay and make a career out of it. We certainly should have started one after 9/11.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
Hell no !...end of my discussion. Ditto. I don't know a single person still in uniform that proposes to bring back the draft. No exceptions. While 95% of the people that serve with me are extraordinary, that other 5% are difficult to motivate even to do what they voluntarily swore to do. No thank you. You know one now, even though I retired in 08. In my view a Draft does several good things. It relieves the constant high pressure business of recruiting and believe me it is tough, provides the services with a ready use manpower pool in the less sophisticated MOS, then after their tour is up they can decide whether to stay and make a career out of it. We certainly should have started one after 9/11. if there's a problem or constraint on volunteerism, recruitment, then it's a sign that the inducements being "offered" by the military are insufficient to meet their needs. they need to re-organize their recruitment strategies.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091 |
Might do some people some good.
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Posts: 265
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 265 |
I think everyone who's not a paraplegic should be required to serve 4 years in the armed service of the USA
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I think they should only draft women for the next couple of centuries.
It's been an all male effort so far and the feminists are stickin' pussy hats on their heads and marching for equality.
Show them what equality entails.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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just give them a choice and allow them to serve the usa, china, russia, india, brazil, or?
the freedom to choose is worth dying for. not much else is worth dying for.
if the "cause" was great enough, we'd be run over by volunteers.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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100% participation in the armed forces sounds good in theory. But consider that even during WW II, lots of able bodied men were given deferments when their job stateside was deemed more valuable to their nation than they could be as cannon fodder.
Point 2: We have difficulty funding the armed forces as they exist today. Some want to increase the size by a factor of ten? Twenty? The money for wages and equipment has to come from somewhere!
What would we do with all these bodies? Put them to work building hiways, and dams, like they do in China? Or just stand them on the street corners with a live automatic weapon as they do in China?
Our gov't seems to be headed in the direction pointed by Chairman Mao fast enough, I do not wish to encourage it to accelerate.
At this point in time, we are fielding sufficient numbers to do their job of defending our nation. I would not favor adding draftees to the mix, and I certainly would not favor 100% conscription.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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I think they should only draft women for the next couple of centuries.
Yep. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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i would rather they bring back the CCC or somesuch.
My diploma is a DD214
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Somebody has to do the fighting. The world is lining up against America. The best volunteers are vastly outnumbered by the immense and onerous obligations of the Service. As good as they are, and they are very good, the Volunteer Service could use a little help now and then.
Me solum relinquatis
Molon Labe
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Currently, there are standards to be met before a young person is eligible to join US armed forces. For example HS graduation and no felony convictions.
What is the service supposec to do with these rejects when drafted into today's military? Cannon fodder is a bit of an outdated concept.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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The Navy can't steer its ships now with "professionals". What would happen with draftees?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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No! .
I don't see how conscription on any worthwhile magnitude would be fiscally sustainable nowadays nor necessary with modern day high tech warfare, short of full out declared war.
Back when the draft was used to fill quotas the US Army generally got the bulk with the US Marines sometimes getting a few. During the Vietnam era the US Air Force and Navy stayed swamped with those wanting to enlist and likewise National Guard, hoping to avoid being drafted into the Army or Marines.
A good many of those who enlisted during the Vietnam era did so in order to choose a MOS and duty station that hopefully would allow them to avoid going to Vietnam altogether and being assigned to any combat arms MOS, especially Infantry.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Most of the people in this country these days aren't worth the risk of defending.
Z
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,092 |
Mixed bag for the military but something that can be reinstated if necessary. Perhaps we should consider drafting our representatives in D.C. instead?
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,607 |
The Navy can't steer its ships now with "professionals". What would happen with draftees? Read my post. Draftees wouldn't be driving, they'd be doing entry level work. Besides, we did ok during WWII w 66% of the force were conscripts.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Posts: 19,106
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,106 |
I served under both the draft era and the all-volunteer force and I can tell you from personal experience the difference in the quality of the force is the difference of night and day . I was a draftee during the Vietnam era, and I had several old Sergeants, E-7 and above that much preferred the draftees to the men that joined on their own. At least that is what they said. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 9,056 |
I have always been a fan of mandatory service. Not necessarily military, but not political "organization" groups either.
Maybe one year of service in which your individuality is stripped, you work for a higher cause and have a subsistence wage. I think it would do wonders for our country.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 66,948 |
Then we'd have another million potato peelers, supply cage clerks, bradley mannings, bowe bergdahls and rust chippers that we would be guilt-stricken over having to thank them for thier service. Ole seafire would be falling all over himself buying remmingdog 783 rifles for them.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 18,994 |
In today's world you would have draft both sexes.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,951 |
Mixed bag for the military but something that can be reinstated if necessary. Perhaps we should consider drafting our representatives in D.C. instead? 535 Random citizens couldn't do any worse than our current representatives.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
Mixed bag for the military but something that can be reinstated if necessary. Perhaps we should consider drafting our representatives in D.C. instead? 535 Random citizens couldn't do any worse than our current representatives. finally, there's some thinking going on in this illustrious orgn, i'm so thankful for that.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,471 |
The Navy can't steer its ships now with "professionals". What would happen with draftees? Read my post. Draftees wouldn't be driving, they'd be doing entry level work. Besides, we did ok during WWII w 66% of the force were conscripts. During WWII there was a pretty clear and defined mission. A purpose that had a clear threat and a 'fairly' clear end state. These days, I just see a bunch of malingering were there to be a draft. Military (at least Army and Marines) is still turning away enough applicants that a bunch of unwilling snowflakes will bring nothing to the table.
Liberalism; The impossible yet accepted notion that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,074 |
I always thought that Heinlein's bit in Starship Troopers might have some merit.
You only get a vote if you have served in the military.
In other words, if you have put your ass on the line, then you get a say in running the country. Not otherwise.
That would put me into the non-voting section.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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