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#12260611 - 09/09/17 Re: Powders for 7x57 Mauser [Re: mathman]  
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Originally Posted by mathman
If temp sensitivity is an issue then skip the W760/H414.


I have to wonder about that. Most of my load work ups have temps running anywhere from 80* to over 100* I have a neat load for a 30-06 pushing the 165 gr. Accubond close to 2900 FPS at 100*F. I used that load on my last elk hunt in New Mexico and took a nice cow elk at a bit over 100 yards. The temp in the truck was 6* above zero. The day before when checking my sights and figuring I might have to adjust some, the point of impact was unchanged. Temp was 14*F above zero.
I've had similar results in the .270 Win. and .300 Win, Mag. using WMR powder. (Winchester Magnum Rifle) Same with Re15 in my .35 Whelen.
The only rifle than showed any change in POI was my .280 Rem. using WMR and IMR 7828SSC but even then the change was very small. So far anyway W760 and the others have worked nicely for me.
Paul B.

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#12261302 - 09/09/17 Re: Powders for 7x57 Mauser [Re: tzone]  
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Thanks RevMike.


Ed

A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
#12262918 - 09/10/17 Re: Powders for 7x57 Mauser [Re: tzone]  
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Just my opinion but unless you hunt the world from northern Canada to the equator or are prone to firewalling every load to just short of locking the bolt up on your rifle the temp sensitive issues is overstated for the average hunter/shooter. I have reloaded for 45 years and used many of the now dreaded temp sensitive powders such as ww760, Blc2 . 4064, ,4350, 4831 and never really had any issues. Now I mostly hunt in Kentucky and the temps range from a high of around 90 in the summer to a low of just above freezing for in the fall but I nor the groundhogs and deer ever noticed the velocity fluctuation. Accuracy never suffered enough to notice. I'll admit I did do most of my load development in the summer not by plan but mostly because it was the off season. Use your 4350 and if it works for you well enuf said.

Last edited by bangeye; 09/11/17.
#12263036 - 09/10/17 Re: Powders for 7x57 Mauser [Re: bangeye]  
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Originally Posted by bangeye
Just my opinion but unless you hunt the world from northern Canada to the equator or are prone to firewalling every load to just short of locking the bolt up on your rifle the temp sensitive issues is overstated for the average hunter/shooter.


I agree 100% I've used double based powders like W760 & W748 for the last 25 years in all types of weather and never had a problem. In my opinion, the only time you'll ever have issues is if you left your ammo on the dashboard on a hot summers day. But nobody in their right mind does that anyway.

#12263114 - 09/10/17 Re: Powders for 7x57 Mauser [Re: bangeye]  
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Originally Posted by bangeye
the temps range from a high of around 90 in the summer to a low of just above freezing for in the fall but I nor the groundhogs and deer ever noticed.


But I hunt in CO where the temp can range from 90's to as low as minus 20-30 degrees. I have hunted in -10-15 degrees in fourth season. We also are more often presented with longer range shots than in KY where temp sensitivity can be an issue in changes in POI. I don't worry too much about temp sensitivity when hunting varmints such as coyotes since I do that mostly in the spring and summer as I hunt public land and don't want to interfere with big game hunters.


Ed

A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
#12263445 - 09/11/17 Re: Powders for 7x57 Mauser [Re: tzone]  
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I'm currently not real concerned about it since my shots will be 150 yards or less for this season. But It's good information IMO to keep in mind.

#12263482 - 09/11/17 Re: Powders for 7x57 Mauser [Re: tzone]  
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Temperature-sensitivity issues can and do occur, but not always, even when there's a considerable change in muzzle velocity. Some rifles are far more prone to point-of-impact changes in cold or warm weather with temp-sensitive powders, particularly those that tend to change POI noticeably with different powders charges when working up loads. I've seen POI changes of up to 3 inches at 100 yards when shooting the same load at 70 degrees Fahrenheit, and then again at zero F. That isn't common, but it can happen, and I've seen 2 inches quite a bit.

Of course, 2-3 inches at 100 won't make any difference on the ribcage of a deer or elk. But it becomes 4-6 inches at 200 and 6-9 inches at 300.

One of those pesky gun writers recently wrote an article on this what will be published this fall in some magazine. For those who don't read magazines, the basic point of the article (which is based on considerable shooting at different temperatures) is that, yes, most of the time temperature-sensitive powders don't make any difference, especially when shooting at big game (which is by definition big) at modest ranges. And yes, it can make a difference in some rifles, with some loads, in some conditions--but to assume that it never makes a difference might result in a surprise someday.

Most humans are quite fond of "examples of one," especially if the example agrees with their point of view. But examples of one, such as shooting an elk at 100 yards in cold weather, don't prove anything.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#12263835 - 09/11/17 Re: Powders for 7x57 Mauser [Re: tzone]  
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Thanks MD.


Ed

A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
#12263941 - 09/11/17 Re: Powders for 7x57 Mauser [Re: Mule Deer]  
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Thanks MD.

Really, the only reason I'm not concerned with it is because I'm shooting at 150 yards and under. Probably a lot under. I will be on the lookout for some of the powders that are resistant to the temp change. I tried this weekend and was unsuccessful...I figured there was a reason for that. smile

Thank you for the help on this subject. It's much appreciated.

#12264006 - 09/11/17 Re: Powders for 7x57 Mauser [Re: tzone]  
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I get good results with 42-44 gr IMR 4320 and a 140 gr Ballistic Silvertip, (41.5 gr behind a 150 gr Part. in the 7mm-08 is what I hunt cow elk with). A charge of 46 gr of IMR 4064 and 120 gr B-tip is my go to lope load. From a 21" barreled 98, they all shoot under an inch at 100 yd and have the same point of impact.


J & S Stuff & Smithing
FFL in Western CO
#12264196 - 09/11/17 Re: Powders for 7x57 Mauser [Re: Mule Deer]  
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John,
Those rifles that changed their point of impacto so much when shooting at different temperatures, would also change their precision, or does precision tend to stay the same?
Thank You,
Alvaro

#12265679 - 09/12/17 Re: Powders for 7x57 Mauser [Re: ColoWyoMan]  
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Joe Offline
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Originally Posted by ColoWyoMan
I get good results with 42-44 gr IMR 4320 and a 140 gr Ballistic Silvertip, (41.5 gr behind a 150 gr Part. in the 7mm-08 is what I hunt cow elk with). A charge of 46 gr of IMR 4064 and 120 gr B-tip is my go to lope load. From a 21" barreled 98, they all shoot under an inch at 100 yd and have the same point of impact.


Have you by chance checked the velocity on these loads? Reason I ask is because I recently got a 20" barrel carbine and the greatest loss from factory loads was only 42 fps less than from my 22" barrel Mauser but, one of my handloads was 130 fps slower. This 65 fps per inch of barrel puzzles me.

#12266186 - 09/12/17 Re: Powders for 7x57 Mauser [Re: Joe]  
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ColoWyoMan Offline
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When I started working with 4320 in the 7x57, 45 gr would give me 2730 fps with a 120 gr Hornady SP. I left it at that as that's about as fast as I wanted to drive a "varmint" class bullet for antelope. The 46 gr 4064 load gives 2880 fps with the 120 gr Btips from my 21" tube and it is lights out on antelope out to 230 yds. These are 10% reduced Ken Waters' Pet Loads so I have a few grains to play with using 4320 & 4064 with the 120s but have never found the need to. In Pet Loads he lists 45 gr of 4320 as a Max load for a 140 gr Solid Base at a velocity of 2885 from a 22" barrel. I reduced that 10% and worked up to 44 gr, that's where I was comfortable with the brass and primer combo I was using and I suspect they might be running about 2800 but don't know for sure.


J & S Stuff & Smithing
FFL in Western CO
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