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#12232735 - 08/26/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: teamprairiedog]  
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My dad took us to South Dakota and Nebraska more than once on DIY pheasant hunts when we were kids.

Didn't have any dogs. It was fun. We killed birds.

That being said if you could find something in the panhandle of Texas that allowed trespass or daily rates, you might be miles ahead. Some of the best COCK hunting in the country believe it or not. But private access is the name of the game.




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#12232742 - 08/26/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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Dogs or not should never be the determining factor in pheasant hunting. If one doesn't have a good dog, then they'd be far better off hunting without one than putting an dumb dog on the ground in a good pheasant field.

Having kept track of this over the past decade or so, visiting dogless hunters have an ever so slight advantage in birds bagged per day. Most people's dogs are a disadvantage to actually getting wild birds.

Fun and enjoyable, yes. Even close to necessary, no.

#12236353 - 08/28/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: DakotaDeer]  
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Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
Dogs or not should never be the determining factor in pheasant hunting. If one doesn't have a good dog, then they'd be far better off hunting without one than putting an dumb dog on the ground in a good pheasant field.

Having kept track of this over the past decade or so, visiting dogless hunters have an ever so slight advantage in birds bagged per day. Most people's dogs are a disadvantage to actually getting wild birds.

Fun and enjoyable, yes. Even close to necessary, no.


Do tell us more, DD.


"Miss Jean Louise, stand up. Your father's passin.'"
#12250347 - 09/04/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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Between the drought beating up chick production and emergency cutting of CRP allowed due to drought as well this isn't an optimum year. Chick production or lack thereof is fairly self-explanatory. Emergency cutting of CRP however will really concentrate hunters which is a HUGE detractor (it is for me anyway), way more so then low bird numbers. It's a rescipe for a fairly impressive crap-show. Think "busy boat ramp" on fishing opener or Mem/Labor Day/4th of July weekend and then add shotguns.


I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
#12251733 - 09/05/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: BKinSD]  
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Originally Posted by BKinSD
PrairieDog, I think maybe you should share your road hunting spots with him. If you're going to encourage him to come out here on his own with no dogs, and expect to have the same success you enjoy after having put in all the time and the miles, the least you can do is give him the full benefit of all that experience. wink

I myself do not think a guy or guys, with no dogs, can come out here for the first time and expect to shoot five day possession limits of roosters, for free. Some will. Most don't.
Some guys shoot six point bulls every year. Most don't. Same general proposition. Can they still come out here and have a good time? Absolutely. Unquestionably. Its up to them.

For what its worth, the state finally today released the pheasant numbers for 2017. The counts are down statewide and the average is -65% below the 10 year average. Good luck men!


^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^

For sure, PD should offer to guide him for a day, at the minimum. And then show us the pics to prove his "uber" pheasant hunting prowess and expertise. crazy

THANKS for keeping it Real World, BKinSD. cool


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#12265014 - 09/11/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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Ok, this thread is getting good! Who's gonna be my guide on day number 1? I'm ready to get this hunt rolling! I can taste those brazed pheasant legs! Robinhedd

Last edited by robinhedd; 09/11/17.
#12265050 - 09/11/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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#12266816 - 09/12/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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North Dakota summer brood counts are out now. In a nutshell, the entire state is down by 60% or more over recent years, which weren't all that high to begin with. Not good. Sharptails and Huns are down also.

#12269625 - 09/14/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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I drove 200 miles yesterday through the heart of pheasant country and saw exactly two birds. One mature rooster, and one chick which could just barely fly. I did see two hens flying night before last, just at dark. I would say 60% down is a very optimistic number. I presume there are pockets of birds here and there, there always are, but the lack of birds is very widespread.


"Miss Jean Louise, stand up. Your father's passin.'"
#12269792 - 09/14/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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Originally Posted by robinhedd
Ok, this thread is getting good! Who's gonna be my guide on day number 1? I'm ready to get this hunt rolling! I can taste those brazed pheasant legs! Robinhedd


I'm still waiting to hear whether or not you have dogs. Are you going with dogs or not? If so, are your dogs trained for birds? I was wondering because of so much debate here and I might want to try this sometime.

Last edited by StoneCutter; 09/14/17.

As you ramble on thru life, Brother
Whatever be your goal
Keep your eye upon the doughnut
And not upon the hole.
#12269820 - 09/14/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: DakotaDeer]  
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Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
Dogs or not should never be the determining factor in pheasant hunting. If one doesn't have a good dog, then they'd be far better off hunting without one than putting an dumb dog on the ground in a good pheasant field.

Having kept track of this over the past decade or so, visiting dogless hunters have an ever so slight advantage in birds bagged per day. Most people's dogs are a disadvantage to actually getting wild birds.

Fun and enjoyable, yes. Even close to necessary, no.


Even though I've never hunted wild birds, only release birds, I can see where an inexperienced dog might become a problem. I used to do a lot of rabbit hunting. Every time we took dogs, even though they were trained for running rabbits, it became a pain in the ass. We'd spend more time F-ing with the dogs than shooting rabbits. I always found it better and funner to just put on the brush pants and plow my way through it myself.


As you ramble on thru life, Brother
Whatever be your goal
Keep your eye upon the doughnut
And not upon the hole.
#12269902 - 09/14/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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If you can get your dog on A LOT of wild birds at a young age it really helps. I hunted along side a number of guys with high dollar professionally trained dogs( it was obvious they themselves did not spend much time training with them) and I witnessed again and again their dogs failing to deal with running roosters, sharpies or birds sitting tight and doubling back between hunters. . Most would just chase running birds a few hundred yards out, ignoring their owners, and kick them up way too far away. In the meantime the owners yelling, swearing, blowing their whistles and shocking them to near death on the ecollars. It was obvious they were trained on pen raised birds. Of course these professional dogs would do well on pen raised birds.

I put my most recent dog on 100's of wild birds the first year in the Dakotas and after a week or so she picked some of the tricks used by roosters, huns, sharptails.( I try and do this with every dog I have owned if possible and there is no substitute for wild wary birds) As soon as she picked up scent she would immediately run ahead in a wide circle a 100 yards or so, and using the wind work her way back to me. Stopping ocassionally to make eye contact with me to see I was involved. In high cover she would pogo to see my location. Both of us moving quietly, no constant yelling or tweet tweet tweet on a whistle. Does she managed to find every smart rooster? If i needed to nudge her in another direction a quick vibrate on her collar. Of course not but each time she learns more and more. Fun to watch. I see a good deal of guys whose dogs, even the very expensive ones, just run ahead and hunt for themselves. It is amazing how much a well bred, not necessarily expensive dog, can learn on their own when exposed to a lot of birds. just my opinion of course.

I'll hunt alone with no dog then with a poorly trained dog these days. If you can get a few guys who know what they are doing you can work cover quite well without a dog. Usually one guy has to bust cattails or the thick stuff.and if needed set out a blocker but of course be aware of safety. Park vehicles at least a 1/4 mile from area hunted and sneak into area hunting to minimize spooking birds.

Driving up to an area and slamming car doors wont cut it after opening day. Some gorgeous country and really nice folks in the Dakotas. Frustrating that more and more areas are tied up by outfitters but good hunts can still be had. Suggest first year call game bios, gets some good maps of hunting areass. Pick a spot and spend the first year scouting and developing contacts

Last edited by ribka; 09/14/17.
#12269907 - 09/14/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: BKinSD]  
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[quote=BKinSD]I drove 200 miles yesterday through the heart of pheasant country and saw exactly two birds. One mature rooster, and one chick which could just barely fly. I did see two hens flying night before last, just at dark. I would say 60% down is a very optimistic number. I presume there are pockets of birds here and there, there always are, but the lack of birds is very widespread.[/quot




thats sad

thanks for update

#12270157 - 09/14/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: ribka]  
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Originally Posted by ribka
If you can get your dog on A LOT of wild birds at a young age it really helps. I hunted along side a number of guys with high dollar professionally trained dogs( it was obvious they did not spend much time training with them) and I witnessed again and again their dogs failing to deal with running roosters, sharpies . Most would just chase running birds a few hundred yards out and kick them up way too far away. In the meantime the owners yelling, swearing, blowing their whistles and shocking them to near death on the ecollars. It was obvious they were trained on pen raised birds.

I put my dog on 100's of wild birds the first year in the Dakotas and after a week or so she picked some of the tricks used by roosters, huns, sharptails. As soon as she picked up scent she would immediately run ahead in a wide circle a 100 yards or so, and using the wind work her way back to me. Stopping ocassionally to make eye contact with me to see I was involved. In high cover she would pogo to see my location. Both of us moving quietly, no constant yelling or tweet tweet tweet on a whistle. Does she managed to find every smart rooster? If i needed to nudge her in another direction a quick vibrate on her collar. Of course not but each time she learns more and more. Fun to watch. I see a good deal of guys whose dogs, even the very expensive ones, just run ahead and hunt for themselves. It is amazing how much a well bred, not necessarily expensive dog, can learn on their own when exposed to a lot of birds. just my opinion of course.

I'll hunt alone with no dog then with a poorly trained dog these days. If you can get a few guys who know what they are doing you can work cover quite well without a dog. Usually one guy has to bust cattails or the thick stuff.and if needed set out a blocker but beware of safety. Park vehicles at least a 1/4 mile from area hunted and sneak into area hunting


Excellent advice. Esp about getting pups involved at an early age on WILD birds.


"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went"
Will Rogers
#12270750 - 09/14/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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http://gfp.sd.gov/hunting/docs/PBR2017.pdf 2017 pheasant survey. Down 45% from last year and 65% down for the ten year average. And these #'s appear optimistic. It was a cold and wet early spring, then terrific hail storms in June in the south central part of the state, then drought in July. The Winner area especially hard hit with hail.


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#12274614 - 09/16/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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I literally saw only two broods of pheasants all summer, and that was me driving tractor every day. They hatched extremely late this year, if at all. It's not going to be any fun this year. I suppose I will spend more time hunting coyotes in their prime instead.

#12278645 - 09/18/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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DD, its a bad year. I have heard better reports on the grouse than I expected and I will be giving them a go here pretty soon. Pheasants are in pockets here and there but widespread disaster is the rule.

Agree totally on poorly trained dogs, no question about that. Dogs can be a handicap. There is no substitute for experience. Most peoples dogs will not do well in an unpicked cornfield or in a strip of cover with hundreds of birds in it. They don't have that experience.

For what it's worth, I would never allow my dog to (or watch anyone else's) circle "100 yards ahead" of me; that is going to accomplish nothing but blowing most all the birds out of a cover. Dogs need to stay close and learn when to apply pressure for the flush. Pups get lots of callbacks in my world. Once pup is 20 yards away, she better be circling back to me.

For what it is also worth, in my opinion any dog is better than no dog when it comes to finding a downed bird. Hunters without dogs will shoot some birds; my experience is that they'll also find fewer of them. A poorly trained dog is generally able to be taken to the spot where the bird was downed and be able to find it, even if he won't bring it to hand. If you have to shoot five a day to put three in your bag, well, you do the math. Days get harder and longer.


"Miss Jean Louise, stand up. Your father's passin.'"
#12279316 - 09/18/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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Good luck with a dog that stays 20 yds from at all times when wild running roosters , Huns, chukars are running 50 to 200 yds ahead of you
Anyone who does a lot of hunting on pressured wild birds on public land knows the answer to this . That is why it is crucial, if possible, to expose your dog to as many wary wild birds as possible imo. A good bird dog with good breeding will figure how to properly hunt wild running birds.


Wild roosters, but mostly hens, will sometimes hold tight and run behind you but wild pressured birds will run quite a ways ahead of you or just take off a 100 yds or more a way on public land if you are not quiet. I have arrived dozens of times at public areas parked my vehicle to have wild bids flush a 100 or more yards away.

Sure on on private land with planted or unpressured birds the rooster might hold tigh in limited thick cover but a dog that has a lot of experience on roosters Huns chukar knows to run and circle at least 100 yds ahead in open cover when birds run


Your experience hunting non pressured or planted birds might be different

Have never experienced a problem with my dog's the past 30 years bringing a grouse goose duck woodcock quail rooster to hand

That's the basics any bird dog should do imo

Last edited by ribka; 09/18/17. Reason: Going a duck goose hun chukar quail pheasant grouse woodcock pigeon to hand
#12279574 - 09/19/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: BKinSD]  
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Originally Posted by BKinSD
,,Agree totally on poorly trained dogs, no question about that. Dogs can be a handicap. There is no substitute for experience. Most peoples dogs will not do well in an unpicked cornfield or in a strip of cover with hundreds of birds in it. They don't have that experience.



I expect the only way the dog gets that experience is through exposure to wild birds,,,the more times the better,,,,,an owner just needs to understand that the "learning times" could be tough!!


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#12279860 - 09/19/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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Sounds like BKin SD uses flushers and ribka runs pointers which would be consistent with their philosophies on how a dog should work. It is always amusing to listen to one group run down the other about which is "better" when both dog types are great for what they do when put on the correct ground type. A coworker had nothing good to say regarding pointing dogs over his labs as he hunted mainly preserves with strips of milo and corn for cover. Birds run in there as there is nothing to stop them. When I took him into the woods for grouse and woodcock, he had an eye opener on how a pointing dog worked. He had comparatively easy shooting as he could somewhat approach the dog from more open cover which gave him a chance to swing the gun. A single instance of right cover for the dog.

Pointers do not do well on pheasants in row crop fields, picked or not, as that is the absolute worst possible cover in which to get a bird to hold for a point. Much the same can be said for strip cover like fence rows, ditches, and shelter belts that are not overly wide and lack undercover. Cattails can be good or bad depending on the amount of canary grass, reeds, and what other lower story cover is available. Pointers also are not the best for groups of hunters conducting drives as that is not conducive to their hunting style. For these areas and conditions a flusher works best if one insists on taking birds as meant by the dog's breed type.

Pointers excel in larger areas of more open cover such as grassy CRP. as pheasants hold in these areas and often tend to be scattered about. A dog that can range a fair distance and hold point can save a lot of time and foot steps in covering ground to find the birds.Pointers are also beneficial on other bird types as many of them hold well in more open cover than pheasants and may be even more spread out. Huns, and prairie grouse come to mind first as I have often walked for miles before contacting them. Their cover requirements and population size are such that a dog that works only a couple dozen yards will leave you covering much of the property yourself which is time consuming and tiring.

I run both types of dogs depending on the cover type/size, the condition of the dog, the experience level of the dog, and personal whim. Just as I would pick the gun, ammo, clothing, or footwear for a given hunt, so do I for the dog. The proper tool for the job to be done generally makes things go better. There is no "best" dog type, just the "best" for the individual. The better one understands the various types of dogs, the better one can appreciate their differences and capabilities.

Last edited by woodmaster81; 09/19/17.
#12280130 - 09/19/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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Hey I didn't run anybody down. I will not argue that hunting prairie grouse is much more a pointing dog game. By all means, have at it. Similarly, if someone wants to plod along chasing pheasants with a pointing dog, they can go right ahead and knock themselves out. It matters not to me. If someone wants to only shoot birds from points, I can understand that. Have at it. If I thought having a pointing dog would work better on pheasants, I'd have one.


"Miss Jean Louise, stand up. Your father's passin.'"
#12280999 - 09/19/17 Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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I'm planning on going this year to SoDak to see what I can kick up on "walk in areas" or other public spots.
But, for me,its a chance for memories and exercise. I just love walking around new to me areas and exploring. Don't have a dog. As I said, I just like "the hunt" and seeing new terrain. Do I want to take a few birds? Heck yeah, but if I don't, I won't go home disappointed.
As for the OP, I would strongly suggest saving up some extra cash and hiring a guide, or going to some preserve. If you want to see plenty of birds, and since you've never tried it, that would be my recommendation.
I'm in it for the memories at this point, me and my dad, me and my son. I'll be by myself thinking about time with them.
I hope you find something that fits your budget, best of luck to you.

#12286349 - 5 hours ago Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: woodmaster81]  
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good points and yep comes down to one's own style and taste

probably came across too preachy in my last post



Originally Posted by woodmaster81
Sounds like BKin SD uses flushers and ribka runs pointers which would be consistent with their philosophies on how a dog should work. It is always amusing to listen to one group run down the other about which is "better" when both dog types are great for what they do when put on the correct ground type. A coworker had nothing good to say regarding pointing dogs over his labs as he hunted mainly preserves with strips of milo and corn for cover. Birds run in there as there is nothing to stop them. When I took him into the woods for grouse and woodcock, he had an eye opener on how a pointing dog worked. He had comparatively easy shooting as he could somewhat approach the dog from more open cover which gave him a chance to swing the gun. A single instance of right cover for the dog.

Pointers do not do well on pheasants in row crop fields, picked or not, as that is the absolute worst possible cover in which to get a bird to hold for a point. Much the same can be said for strip cover like fence rows, ditches, and shelter belts that are not overly wide and lack undercover. Cattails can be good or bad depending on the amount of canary grass, reeds, and what other lower story cover is available. Pointers also are not the best for groups of hunters conducting drives as that is not conducive to their hunting style. For these areas and conditions a flusher works best if one insists on taking birds as meant by the dog's breed type.

Pointers excel in larger areas of more open cover such as grassy CRP. as pheasants hold in these areas and often tend to be scattered about. A dog that can range a fair distance and hold point can save a lot of time and foot steps in covering ground to find the birds.Pointers are also beneficial on other bird types as many of them hold well in more open cover than pheasants and may be even more spread out. Huns, and prairie grouse come to mind first as I have often walked for miles before contacting them. Their cover requirements and population size are such that a dog that works only a couple dozen yards will leave you covering much of the property yourself which is time consuming and tiring.

I run both types of dogs depending on the cover type/size, the condition of the dog, the experience level of the dog, and personal whim. Just as I would pick the gun, ammo, clothing, or footwear for a given hunt, so do I for the dog. The proper tool for the job to be done generally makes things go better. There is no "best" dog type, just the "best" for the individual. The better one understands the various types of dogs, the better one can appreciate their differences and capabilities.

#12286930 - 46 minutes ago Re: Pheasants on a budget? [Re: robinhedd]  
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I hope everyone is safe and has a great time. This isn't the best year to be trying to come here. Things are way off this year. If you are coming, I would suggest taking a look at south central SD, as they seemed to have timely rains and stayed green all summer. North central SD had the worst of the drought.


"Miss Jean Louise, stand up. Your father's passin.'"
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