Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 45 Super vs 460 Rowland

Seems like there's a hunting vs wilderness defense divergence. One can't argue the better accuracy with a revolver, nor can the easier repeatability of an auto be ignored.

I was interested to read recently thatBill Wilson does not care for the .460 Rowland. Not sure why?

I don't carry my 1911's "in the field" in anything but a Tanker Man's shoulder holster. Was doing some post flood cleanut today, used the .45 on a snake.


Mike

They seem to like it when I placed my order. They would not use a case hardened frame for the .460. Their compensator is smaller. The Rowland/Clark comp works better. Their loaded ammo is about 80 to 85% of maximum. Which is not bad really. The Hunter model is available in 10mm also.

It is a very nice gun. It should be for that price.

Thanks for all the info, gentlemen. I've been wondering about the minutia of the Super vs. the Rowland too, and have been thinking of getting into a Super. A 45 cal 250 @ 1000 seems pretty useful for woods use.

Gibby,

What shoulder holster are You using?

And specifically what ear plugs are You referring to?

Thanks,

Jerry


Also,

I don't know how Johnny Rowland set his 45 Supers up or how many rounds until He beat them to death, but I have probably a thousand plus through mine to no ill effect. Either have Jack Huntington set it up to increase the time it is locked up or do as Yondering suggests and use a flat bottomed firing pin stop and a 25# mainspring to get there. I don't doubt that only using a very heavy recoil spring would batter them badly.

You can get the 45 close to that with a good powder choice and a FFPS, #18 recoil spring, without going over +p pressure in standard brass. Even at 850fps at standard pressure range the 250 gr has good performance and excellent penetration. With a wide flat profile bullet, I don't know that more velocity adds much impact on the target. Either way it's a lot of punch from a standard ACP.

Yep even in standard mixed 45 ACP brass I've been able to push a 230gr WFN to 1050-1100 fps. That's in a G21 OEM barrel too with it's very generous feed ramp; a better supported barrel can handle a bit more.

I do believe more velocity than 850 fps does add more effect on target though; everything I've seen in testing and shooting game indicates more velocity does hit harder with everything except a round nose bullet. There's more to terminal performance than just shoving the bullet through meat.

Galco Miami Classic holster. I like the four point pivot in the back. It moves with you. Good for all 1911's and Browning HI Power fits good in it also. Including the magazines. Good for field and dress up.

The earplugs. I just looked. The round plastic container's printing has worn off, so I do not know what brand. I do know I bought them from WW Grainger. When I get time, I will try to identify.

The 1911 is built to take a recoil slam of the slide and frame. Take one apart and look. The return trip of the slide is only stopped by the slide release and the small barrel foot. In addition, the frame around the hole for the slide release is relatively weak (thin). JB did not design the 1911 to be abused by a overly strong recoil spring.

That area was the problem with the 1980's version of Colt's first Delta Elite model. Using just a 23# recoil spring.

There are tricks you can do to handle the recoil impulse of the slide, but not much you can do to handle the increased slide return force using very heavy recoil spring.

As far as Glocks, I have no clue.

.....and don't care.

I run the Wilson flat wire 20# recoil spring in my 45 Supers. The 45 Super with a 230 grain JHP at 1100+ FPS is a hard hitting combo. The 185 at 1300+ is also a very effective load. And the 255 grain hard cast at 1070 FPS is also a very useful combo. The added speed definitely increases effectiveness.

The 45 is about 100 FPS faster than a good +P with equal weight bullets. If one wants more then the Rowland offers more velocity.

I have the Lee RNFP mold that casts 263 with my preferred alloy. I shoot them out of an 1860 Henry replica at about 1000. I'd love to do the same out of an auto. It was this bullet, at that speed, that got me digging into options to step up the 45 ACP. I have a few thousand policed brass, but have never owned an arm for them.

That's not a good bullet for pushing fast in the 45 Auto; it takes up too much case capacity and will require seriously high pressure to push to 1000 fps. You'd be a lot better off with a different bullet; if you want to stick with Lee molds the 230 TC is your best bet for a heavy bullet that can be pushed hard. The small weight difference doesn't matter that much downrange, but the velocity difference at safe pressures will be significant. You can push that 230 TC to 1000 fps from a 1911 safely with the right powder choice; Blue Dot is a good one.

Hornady 230gr XTP and 230gr (225) are about perfect balance for the .460 also. Although the XTP turns into a flying ashtray at .460 velocities. Still good enough for deer. They need to make a magnum style in .451 instead of .452.

Just shoot the .452" version then. If you're concerned about the extra .001" (no big deal in my experience) you can size them down with very little fuss but I wouldn't bother.

I've really wanted to convert my Les Baer 45 ACP to Super, but can't find any flies on the +P loads I already shoot in it, don't think the Super would give me anything more for the uses I have for that pistol.

185 gr tac-xp's at 1175
230 gr gold dots at 950
230 gr Nosler fmj-fp's at 1000

They all shoot and function so well I'm afraid to jack with changing anything.

an accurate to 25 yards 230 gold dot at 950 would do anything I need done here in the southeast.

I've got the 240gr. Hornady Magnums in .452. Have not worked up a load yet for the .460 using them. I did make up a dummy round. My lee factory crimp die did not like them one bit. The .452 cast no problem as expected but the .452 jacketed was a tough stroke. The mag style are a very thick jacketed design. A little shorter bullet in the case might work better. Maybe the .460 Starline brass is thicker closer to the mouth than their ACP brass. I just don't know. My OAL for XTP's is pretty much settled on. Due to magazine dimensions. Even .003 longer will jam them up.

Another thing is, we are not talking about using them at around 20k psi like the ACP. In the 30k range with no data available. In a 1911.

I am a conservative handloader.

Yup, same here, a 185 tac-xp at 1175 was fine buck deer medicine one afternoon too, little buck was hung up behind me, leaned around the tree with the 1911 and drilled him on the point of the left shoulder, he trotted 20 yards, stopped, then fell over.

That is good information. While the 10 mm is a great round the 45 is sure versatile

With AA#5 and a few others the 10mm can be loaded down for fun and plinking. Down way below .40 S&W levels accurately. Nobody ever thinks of the 10 that way. They want to hot rod it. But , if you like your weapon in the 10mm, why not have more fun with it.

You bet JP, I have no doubt the 10mm with 200 gr XTP's would have did same.