Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 30-30 vs 7.62x39 Pro's vs Cons

I'm thinking of trading one of my numerous old 94's in 30-30 for one of the new Ruger RAR rifles in 7.62x39.

They seem really close, in comparable ballistics, other than the 30-30 having heavier bullets available in Factory loadings. Trajectory should be very close, with equal bullet weights, with a slight edge to the 7.62x39 because of the ability to use pointed bullets with a little better BC, verses the flat nosed 30-30 bullets.

The biggest advantage of the RAR in 7.62x39 IMO, is the cheaper ammo, that's more readily available in different factory loadings. And the fact that the RUGER RAR will except the 10, 20, & 30 round Mini-30 magazines.

What sayeth the Campfire Braintrust ???

Rubber tipped pointy 30-30 bullets for hunting? No interest here in large capacity mags, but that's just me. I'm all in favor of cheaper ammo, tho!

Thanks, I forgot to mention that there are pointed bullets available for the 30-30 with the Hornady Leverlution Ammo.

I carry a 30-30 a lot but haven't tried the Leverlution ammo for it. Anyone have experience with it? Just curious- the round nose stuff works fine for me.

It shot really high for me. Like 8 inches above 150 gr Rem Corlokt.

Do it.
Do it.

Your an Enabler!

No,just giving you the answer you want.

Yep

I bought a CZ 527 carbine 76239 just for the reason to shoot cheap ammo like 223 but heavier rounds. I love that little rifle. My 30/30 hasn't seen shooting time in good 5+ years

Best use I've witnessed for the wildly popular 7.62x39 is pissing off Air Cav scout pilots who in turn whine to their gunship air cover who will apply vast volumes of whithering minigun fire and devastating rocket fire on the perpetrators. The round can actually drive a bullet thru light aluminum skin, but the AP bullets will shed their core against anything structural and cease further penetration. I am therefore pleased that millions of people I don't know are so armed. A fella wants cheap, he gets what he pays for.

When I want to kill something stone dead, right here and now..........

.30-30 by a mile, but I am biased.

The Leverevolution ammo shoots great in my old Marlin. It is all I with in the .30-30.

Since you seem to have a number of 94s, trading one off, maybe the ugly one, wouldn't hurt, but keep in mind that while the Ruger might be a good rifle, it's not a nice one, so it might not satisfy your inner Loony. If you want a nice rifle for the little Roosky, sell two of the 94s and get one of the CZs. I just got one in 6.5 Grendel and it's very nice.

For deer, I'd say it's a ballistic wash between the two rounds, but I'd give an edge to the .30/30 for bigger stuff (having killed exactly one deer with it, and exactly zero with the 7.62x39).

CZ, by the way, promotes the use of steel-case cheap ammo in its rifles, stating that American-style ammo may not give as good results, whatever the heck that means.

Conceptually, I like the new x39 Ranch Rifle. Consider me an enabler too. Get one!

I've owned quite a few WW Model 94's starting back when I was 15 in 1975. Only killed one deer with one, but I've killed a ton of hogs, coyotes, and other vermin through the years. But they were used mainly as a truck gun at the Ranch, but never as a primary deer rifle.
And I've also killed deer and lots of hogs with other so so calibers like the 7.62x39 and .300 Blackout. They all killed stuff dead.

My main reason for wanting a Ruger American Ranch Rifle in 7.62 x 39 was for a cheap beater rifle I can throw on the 4-wheeler or Ranger at the Ranch, and not have to worry about beating it up or scratches. And the cheap ammo and the 20 round mag is the main appeal for me. And cheap plinking too.
If I'm seriously hunting deer or varmints, I've got several real hunting rifles that I use for that.

I'm still on the fence on this purchase, so any and all opinions are greatly appreciated! Keep em coming please.

Looks like you've got you answer then. The DM would be handy if you're required to unload while on the vehicle, although I'd be more inclined towards a 5-shot, if it fit flush or nearly so. Wouldn't want to bang one of the CZs around much, and they are true CRF, so you have to feed them with the mag as the bolt won't close on a round dropped on the follower or in the chamber.

When I saw the new Ruger, my first thought was: That's 90% of one for the Grendel. My second thought was: I wonder if I could get a .223 and replace the "bottom metal" with the 7.62 unit and use Mini14 magazines instead of the crappy plastic rotary ones. Interesting possibilities in both cases.

If you really want the 7.62 I also think the CZ is a better quality and by far better looking rifle than the RAR.

Buy a RAR,along with a low powered scope.

DD, thats a gorgeous '94!

My .02 worth........30-30

Do you want a hunting rifle or a shooting rifle.
Hunting gun, ammo price is no big deal.

Really, if you can afford it just buy the dam thing,
it's what you want. Now, anyway.

Or,

Wait for a month or two. There are many guns that I don't own, because I waited a while to buy, and then realized I didn't want them that bad.

On th CZ's, I love their bassackward safety. If it worked normal, I would have bought a Hornet, 7.62, and by now a Grendel. Sure as heck don't need them, but love that little gun.

Yes I could deal with that safety, but I don't want/have to.

More of a shooter than a hunter. On my serious hunting rifles, I don't sweat the ammo, a box of ammo should last most hunters 3 or 4 years on a deer rifle, as a lot of hunters rarely kill more than a couple of deer per year.
And I agree on waiting. I've been waiting ever since Ruger announced these, trying to convince my self I need one
And I can afford it, I'm just being a tight ass, and thinking of trading off one of the many lever action rifles I haven't used in years.

I bought one a couple of weeks ago and I really like it. No, it's not a fine rifle, it feels cheap especially the stock. Out of the box the barrel was rubbing the right side of the forearm really bad. I relieved that area and used some Emory paper to sand down some of the sharper edges on the stock. I adjusted the trigger by just using the trigger adjustment screw. I Tourqued the action screws and mounted a night force scope for accuracy testing. Rifle is light, accurate, low recoiling, Affordable , and just a ball to shoot. My thought on this purchase was to have a rifle young people can learn to shoot with. Cheap ammo equals lots of range time. By not breaking the bank on ammo, a young shooter can really learn the fundamentals of marksmanship and after becoming comfortable and confident behind the rifle they can use it to harvest game.

During accuracy testing, I shot the Ranch rifle out to 500 yards, making consistent hits with the Hornady Ammunition. Shooting the Tula ammunition, I had a bit more trouble making hits at distance, but hits out to 300 yards were possible. The targets were 2MOA steel. After accuracy testing, I mounted the scope I'd like to leave on the rifle, a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8.

I think the flimsy plastic stock really depreciates the accuracy possibilities of the rifle. Secondary, replacing the trigger would make a huge difference too.

As a round for hunting medium game, I prefer a lever or pump action 30-30 over any rifle that I've seen chambered in 7.62x39.

As a CF round for plinking, I'd prefer to shoot inexpensive 7.62x39 ammo. OTOH, I prefer to plink with rimfire rifles and handguns.

I have dozens of rifles chambered in 30-30, but only 2 in 7.62x39, a Norinco SKS and a stainless Ruger 77 that was a non-cataloged limited run made for Davidson's back in the early 1990's. While the Ruger is a fine rifle, if I'm going to carry a bolt action rifle with which to shoot medium game, there are many in my gun room that I would pick ahead of this particular Ruger.

I might buy a RAR-Ranch in 7.62x39 to play with, but not as a medium game hunting rifle. If Ruger would chamber the RAR-Ranch in 6.5 Grendel I'd be sure to buy one of them, as I'd like to play with that particular cartridge.

Wonder if a .30 cal suppressor will work on the Ruger 7.62 RAR. I know the Russian ammo uses a .311 diameter bullet. Surely there's a little larger hole I the Supressor than .308 ?

You can easily get your trigger pull down to 2# or lighter buy replacing the the main trigger spring with a lighter gauge spring from the hardware store..
Others have removed the little lever on the trigger face if that is a problem for you..

Yes, most .30 cal suppressor will work. I've got a Griffin Amament Recce 7 that I'm going to use on it.

I had a CZ 527 in 7.62x39. It was a very nice rifle, as mentioned above, but I got rid of it for 2 reasons. 1, I didn't want to beat it up and that's exactly what would have happened if I had continued using it for the purpose I had bought it for, and 2, that protruding magazine made for an awkward carrying rifle when in the hand. I see the same issue with this new RAR.

My 2 cents.

Yep, I hate a magazine sticking out right at the balance point where you want to carrry it. Ain't no way it's going to carry as nice as a tube fed lever gun.

+1

Keep the Winchesters and buy the Ruger too.

My main reason for wanting a Ruger American Ranch Rifle in 7.62 x 39 was for a cheap beater rifle I can throw on the 4-wheeler or Ranger at the Ranch, and not have to worry about beating it up or scratches.

Don't think the "balance point" matters while riding around in a 4-wheeler or Ranger.

Buy the 7.63x39,Chl.

A note from down under, I shoot the CZ 527 carbine. Recently got hold of some CFE BLK powder this is the way to go 30.0 gr gave an average of 2,540 fps from that 18 1/2"barrel with hHornady 123 gr SST & Barnes TSX. I have three good size sambar deer to the SST all one shot and they are a big solid animal. Love x39 and would really like one of the new CZ's with the 22"barrel but the little carbine is a winner

Johno

Prezactley! And I did.
It followed me home from my LGS this evening. Now to scope it to see if it's accurate like the others here on the CampFire say theirs is. I'm thinking maybe a Leupold 2x7 VX-1 or Rifleman ought to make a great lower priced scope.

I'll take it out and shoot 3 or 4 different types of Factory ammo and see how accurate it is. Hopefully I will have time later on this week. And I'll post some 5 shot groups to show if it's accurate or not, for those of you who are interested.

And Thanks to all the Campfire members for your comments / opinion.

Great choice for the scope Chl!

Yes,please post some pics of the groups you shoot.

Oh and CONGRATS!!

If you want a quiet RAR, get the 300 BO. Fast twist to stabalize heavy for caliber bullets. To me the 300 BO is a more appealing modern alternative to the 30-30 in a bolt gun than the 7.62X39.

Agreed. And I've already got a AR-15 in 300 Blackout. I was just wondering out loud if I buy a 30 cal Supressor for it, could I also use it on the 7.62x39, too. While picking up the new rifle, they had a set of calipers, and we measured the inside diameter of one of the Sig Sauer .30 cal Supressor they had in stock.
It measured .375, so plenty of room for the .311 bullets of the 7.62x39 rounds. The Sig Supressor is just under $600 bucks. I plan to use it on my .223, 243, 300 BO caliber rifles as well as the 7.62x39 RAR.

I'm way to tight to buy a suppressor for each rifle.

You could just go around the ranch saying "PEW,PEW...PEW PEW PEW" at hogs and coyotes.

Nice to see some people still have a sense of humor.

I prefer "achoo" spoken with a sibilant hiss.

Too late, but I'll add my 2 cents worth anyway.

1. The .30-30 in a lever has a lot of nostalgic value to me, the 7.62x39 in any platform has none. I bought a Marlin .30-30 some years back and love it.

2. I don't need a 10-20-30 round mag in a bolt gun. Nor do I want one. For my Ruger .308 Scout I purchased both 3- and 5-round mags. Have not used the 10-round factory mag since.

3. The Ruger Scout .308 uses standard .308" bullets, which I use in a variety of other rifles - don't want oddball .311" bullets taking up space on my bench.

4. With a $30 suppressor attached, the Ruger Scout "has no recoil" according to my hunting buddy. An exaggeration, but recoil is really low - probably similar to a .30-30, maybe less.

5. For my first AR I went with a .300 Blackout. As a reloader, I'd do the same if choosing between a .30-30, 7x39 or .300BLK in a bolt rifle.

6. Only accurate rifles stay in my safe. I don't know if factory 7x39 ammo would meet my standards, especially the cheapo stuff. I know 7x39 handloads can be very accurate. The .300BLK factory ammo I've shot in my AR has been acceptably accurate.

7. If inexpensive, accurate ammo is desired, reloading is the way to go. I understand not everyone is interested in or capable of doing so.


chlinstructor made a different decision than I would have, but we have different needs/wants/priorities. Hope the 7x39 works out well for him and am looking forward to seeing the RAR's target groups.

I only have 20 years left of being young enough to shoot a gun.
I am not wasting the time I have on commie block ammo.

Recently I was watching a female instructor as her platoon was making its way along a creek bottom, she cut loose on them by yelling “bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”,“bang”.

She rattled on like that for five minutes alternating between full auto and semi.

I had to sit down on the track because it was so damn funny.

I'd take the .30-30 everytime but since you have multiple 30-30's I guess you're good either way.

I know people have had some issues with the RAR magazines so I can see where the Mini 30 mags are appealing, my Ranch in .300 BLK feeds flawlessly with five rounds in the magazine. However, I don't like long magazines sticking down below my rifles I use for hunting. When I used to coyote hunt with my AR I always preferred 20 round magazines or smaller. I couldn't imagine even using anything other than the 5 round magazine in the bolt action Ruger Ranch.

I think that the .300 BLK would be a more versatile rifle especially with suppressor use, but the ammunition is a little more expensive if you're buying it. .308 caliber bullets are far more plentiful for the reloader than what's available for the X39. The other reason is I imagine the .300 BLK is cheaper to find right now, I bought mine used for $500 but it had the Nikon P300 scope, muzzle brake, bi-pod, AR15 style soft case, and 250 rounds of 120 OTM and 220 Sub Sonic Remington ammo with it.

I used to have an older CZ Mini Mauser in 7.62 x 39. It was a beautiful little rifle, nice walnut stock and flush bottom metal. I messed with it for a few years, trying domestic factory ammo, cheap Chinese and Russian stuff, and all the handloading tricks I could think of. I never could get it to shoot any better than my SKS, so it went down the road. Are you guys with bolt 7.62's able to get good groups? Three to four inch groups just didn't do it for me.

I finally found time to shoot my Ruger Anerican Ranch in 7.62 x 39 that I bought after posting this thread. It's my first Ruger RAR rifle and I'm impressed with the way it shoots. Haven't found a super price on a Leupold 2 x 7 Compact scope I want to mount on it, so I threw a little Nikon 3 X BDC scope that used to be on one of my 30-30's. Which makes the 100 yard groups I shot after sighting it in even more impressive. All the loads I tried yesterday were the cheap steel case Wolf ammo from Russia. Most of the ammo grouped from 1.75 to 2".

And the best load for accuracy was the Wolf steel case 123 grain HP, which as you can see, was less than an inch.
Here's my 100 yard target with that ammo.



I guess I enlarged the image too much. Those squares on the target are 1"
I'll try some more ammo and some of the better American mfg ammo once I find a reasonably priced Leupold 2 x 7 or 3 x 9 to mount on it for night time hog shooting at the Ranch. My nephew popped two hogs with it last night at about 80 yards in one of our wheat fields. The Russian 123 gr HP put them down with no problem at that distance.

That's not bad at all. Should be good enough to kill a pig or two...

Agree with the small capacity magazines. For my mini 14, I have two Five rounders that we use. Yes, I have numerous twenty rounders, but they are for social work, should it be required. Bumming around the pastures, fives are plenty.

Jack

Pretty good shootin' for an old man.

Elk hunter ,

I won a T/C barrel in a $5 raffle . When I got it and saw it was 7.62x39 x.308 I was disappointed.
You have to understand that this bore will not handle the AK/SKS cheap ammo as it’s all .311 .
So I loaded some .308 -125 JSP and was much surprised . With a scope on it it shoots “ SUB MOA “, benched naturally for this old mans eyes . And it is very pleasant to shoot , a good setup for a youngster to start with.extremely accurate .Still the 30-30 is all over it . With that 125 grain bullet I couldn’t get what a 30-30 gets with a 150 grain pill . I’m guessing it was at best about 2250 FPS .
But to 100 - 125 yards with good shot placement it should be effective on our NE wt deer.

Good luck and good shooting.
Semper Fi
Soup

Fixed it for you

I was very pleased! Being a "cheap" rifle and ammo, I figured I'd be lucky if it shot a 3" group!