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Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900478 01/28/07
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Mak Offline
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The .375 was a stretch for the 336 action in the first place, as it operates considerably above the 336s safety threshold of 40,000 psi.
375 brass is heavier constructed than 38-55 in order to stand up to the extra pressure, an the .375 uses that size projectile, while the 38-55 uses between a .377 an .379.
Couple thousands of an inch might not sound like much, but thats all it takes to scatter bullets instead of droppin em in.
.38-55s have dimensions all over, some guns run as much as .380, others considerably tighter, brass also has been shortened recently. Marlin claimed their 38-55 to be right in the .379 range, but I know of at least one gun where the chamber was too small fer anything more than .377. Options here-chamber ream, or shoot jacketed.
Anywho, the reason folks tell all of you not to shoot .375s has to do with a few things-fist of all, the cartridge is shorter, an will not fill the chamber, if you follow up shootin with a standard oal number you could wind up imbedding the chamber, an at the very least creating a hassel of cleaning, at the most causing damage to yer gun.
Secondly, yer .375 is gonna be accuracy challenged at best, an at worst shootin that undersize of a bullet could wind up damaging both grooves an lands-at the very least, youll have a bunch of blowby, which greatly increases yer chances of extra work removin all that fouling.
Third is that the .375 pressures are rated well over the threshold for the standard Marlin action, an this means you could run into head space issues real quick.
Sure, the ol .375/336s look identical, but will anyone swear that the newer cb recieved the same heat treating? I sure won't.
Last, if you need yer 38-55 to have greater velocity, then go to a slightly lighter bullet-its no sweat to shoot 220s or even 200s an get to or even better a little the 2,000 fps range.
If you really have a hankerin for the .375, I know there are still a few floatin around, save yer coin, get one of em, an keep that cb in shape.
Good luck n good shootin

BP-B2

Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900479 01/29/07
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MAK's post is a little overstated but correct in substance.

Where did you find that arbitrary "safety threshold" of 40,000 psi? That is rubbish and you know it.

.
.

Last edited by JBLEDSOE; 01/29/07.
Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900480 01/30/07
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The .375 was a stretch for the 336 action in the first place, as it operates considerably above the 336s safety threshold of 40,000 psi.

375 brass is heavier constructed than 38-55 in order to stand up to the extra pressure...

Third is that the .375 pressures are rated well over the threshold for the standard Marlin action, an this means you could run into head space issues real quick.

Sure, the ol .375/336s look identical, but will anyone swear that the newer cb recieved the same heat treating?...


Mak -

Marllin seems quite happy putting a 44,000 CUP (.444 Marlin) or 43,500 PSI (450 Marlin) pressure limit on the 336 actions, so 40,000 PSI is a little low.

Whether .375 brass has thicker walls is a matter of debate. I have WW brass in both and will check for myself one of these days, but others claim they ahve found no difference.

Firing a .375 Win cartridge with a .375" bullet is going to reduce pressures considerably when bore is .377" or larger. How much I will leave to others to test.

The receiver part numbers for my Marlin 375 and Marlin 336's of the same era are identical. What does that say about heat treatment? Also identical.


Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.

A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900481 01/30/07
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Mak Offline
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OK-40,000 psi range.
Guess I just consider a few thou over or under still around 40,000. Besides, cartridge components will have pressure variations, just the nature of the beast, an with a 40,000 psi limit you'll never break yer gun.
Point is, the Marlin 336 in standard form has an acceptable pressure limit of around 40,000 psi, or about the same as the Winchester 94.

Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900482 01/30/07
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Yep, the 375 will have a bunch of lower pressure in the 38-55, cuz so much of the gas is whooshing on by-by the way that horrible sound will be your barrel sayin bye bye. I suppose I'll reiterate that the .375 is not interchangeable with the 38-55.
I tell ya, I'd sure as heck hate to get a hold of a used gun from you folks, probably work as a chile stirrer an not much more.
I dunno what ever happened to common sense in this counrty, but it sure gives one pause...
If pressure is an issue, you reduce your charge or you change your component/powder choice-you don go to a cartridge your gun is not chambered for.
I would not go by a cusrory review of part numbers to make my conclusion about pressure. Marlin, remember has never chambered another 50,000 psi cartridge in their 336-coincidence? Maybe, but I guess I like my guns an finger to be intact-I know, thats patently ridiculous, but there it is.
So, the advice from me, Mr. slow an low, is to review yer field performance before you fill yr head with all kinds of numbers, you'll find, if yer honest, that at levergun ranges, with good bullets, that those low velocity numbers work right fine-your ears'll agree an so will yer shoulder.
So, if you need more fire, refrain from usin the 375 in the 38-55. Go get you a real 375, or go custom an have one made from a BB action. Then, you can brethe all that fire till your shoulder is as numb as a politicians sense of honesty.

IC-A

Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900483 01/30/07
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Mak -

I’m not recommending shooting a .375 in a .38-55, just pointing out that the pressure would be lower than in a properly sized .375 barrel. In fact I DON’T recommend it. If I was going to hot-rod a .38-55 I’d use .38-55 brass and properly sized, gas-checked bullets. Not recommending that, either, but I do recommend a .375 Win.

I like my guns intact, too. BTW, Marlin DID chamber another 52,000 CUP round in the 336 frame – it was called the .356 Winchester. I have not heard of any .356’s or .375’s blowing up with factory ammo or even handloads for that matter.

A cursory review of part numbers? You go to order a blued receiver for a Marlin .375 Win or a 336 made in the same time frame and there is only one part number to order. If you can find a different part number please let me know.

By the way, the .356 Winchester may have had the same receiver part number as well – I think so but can’t recall, looked it up once but since I don’t have one the answer didn’t stick in my memory.


Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.

A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900484 01/30/07
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All the .356, and .375 receivers are the same as every other .336 receiver. Marlin did try using a different barrel thread design to strengthen the action for the .307, but abandoned it.

That is until now. They use the modified barrel thread design on the new .308 marlin express receivers.

Weagle

Last edited by weagle; 01/30/07.
Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900485 01/31/07
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Mak Offline
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Yep, the 336 was also chambered in the late, great .356 WCF.
If I recall correct, the .375 predated the .356/.307, an like W. says, the 307 was announced an never built.
In any case, the 356 was indeed a high pressure number.
My point about heat treating is that certain parts may have had a lil extra dose, or may not, I've asked this question of others more in the know than me.
Marlin in those days apparantly did not do a ruger, they did a kimber-their parts were chosen for their gun, an rode along together till done-thus part no.s alone won tell the whole story.
Maybe you know more n me, an maybe you can put it to rest?
Anywho, were lucky that there still are .375s/.356s out there-they really are great cartridges.

Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900486 01/31/07
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Quote

Marlin in those days apparantly did not do a ruger, they did a kimber-their parts were chosen for their gun, an rode along together till done-thus part no.s alone won tell the whole story.
Maybe you know more n me, an maybe you can put it to rest?
Anywho, were lucky that there still are .375s/.356s out there-they really are great cartridges.


The other parts would not go along for the ride during heat treatment, and that’s where the difference in strength would come from. Here are a few part numbers from Marlin schematics:

407690 = Receiver, Marlin and Glenfield 336C (.30-30)
407690 = Receiver, Marlin and Glenfield 336ER (.356 Win)
407690 = Receiver, Marlin and Glenfield 375 (.375 Win)

That’s Marlin’s part numbers and the Marlin drawings they were taken from. The actual description is the same in every case, including for the Model 375:

“Receiver, .30-30, .35, .44, .307 & .356 Cal. (FFL Req'd)*”

Note that the .307 is listed, even though Marlin never shipped any.

I agree those who have .356’s and .375’s are lucky.


Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.

A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900487 02/01/07
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Please take this as intended. I do not wish to raise hackles or throw insults.

Among the cartridges that will “shoot” in a .38-55 rifle are the .38-55 (duh!), the .22 Savage Hi-Power, the .25-35, the 7-30 Waters, the .30-30, the .32 Win Special, and the .375 Win. Add to that list a host of non-factory rounds like the .30 Herrett, .357 Herrett, 7mm IHMSA, .25 Bullberry, .35-30, .30-30AI and several more.

But “shoot” should mean more to us than the ability to chamber and go “bang” - or perhaps “pop” or even “fizz.”

If Marlin had intended their rifles to shoot both the .38-55 and the .375 Win, they would be roll-stamped as such. They are NOT. A person can argue all day long about part numbers, barrel alloys, heat treatment and pressure levels, but those arguments prove absolutely nothing except the possession of a creative mentality or perhaps wishful thinking.

Doing so is poor judgment, period. It serves no useful purpose. If you want a .375 rifle, by all means buy one. The .38-55 is perfectly useful and usable as is – and that's how it should be used: AS IS.


Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

IC-B

Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900488 02/01/07
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This little exercise has been a bit of an adventure for me, and once again by simply stepping around the stones and ruts in the road I have ventured forth and learned a good deal of useful information. I would like to thanks those with a likewise adventurous spirit for the assistance they provided and to the others I hope the dust of our passing by wasn't too uncomfortable.

Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900489 02/01/07
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Quote
...

If Marlin had intended their rifles to shoot both the .38-55 and the .375 Win, they would be roll-stamped as such. They are NOT. A person can argue all day long about part numbers, barrel alloys, heat treatment and pressure levels, but those arguments prove absolutely nothing except the possession of a creative mentality or perhaps wishful thinking.

Doing so is poor judgment, period. It serves no useful purpose. If you want a .375 rifle, by all means buy one. The .38-55 is perfectly useful and usable as is – and that's how it should be used: AS IS.




If you go back and reread my posts you will see where I stated:



"I’m not recommending shooting a .375 in a .38-55, just pointing out that the pressure would be lower than in a properly sized .375 barrel. In fact I DON’T recommend it. "



That said, the receiver part numbers are indeed identical.



FWIW, my .375 chamber is overly long and I have used .38-55 brass to build longer .375 Win loads. Shooting .375 brass in the chamber is somewhat like shooting .38 Specials in a .357 Mag chamber. After some experimentation, however, I gave it up as I only had 50 .35-55 cases and 500 .375 cases and didn't feel the effort to keep them separate was worth any potential gains I might get from the .38-55 brass.


Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.

A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900490 02/01/07
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weagle Online Content
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Guess what I got back in the mail today! My marlin 30TK rebored from 30-30 to .375 winchester. Took 12 days including ship time and cost $170 including shipping and insurance both ways. I hope it shoots as good as it feeds.

Weagle

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Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900491 02/02/07
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Great news, Weagle. Anxious to see how it performs.

Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38-55 Marlin #900492 02/02/07
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Weagle,who done the work ?

I've used 38-55 brass in my 94 BB 375 Win. for several years,since the brass is thinner you can get more powder in it.I also make brass for my 375 Winny useing 30-30 brass...
no problems..ask PACO over at Leverguns.com forum..He will tell you the same...

Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38 [Re: Buckeye] #1230344 02/04/07
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weagle Online Content
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Jesse Ocumpaugh out in Oregon did the conversion. He advertises on Gunsamerica.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/classifieds/none/_976722469.aspx

He doesn't list the .375 conversion on his flyer, but I talked to him and he said he could do the .375.

I ran a couple of boxes of factory ammo through it yesterday and it was very accurate. Most of the 3 shot groups were right at an inch and I think it would do a litlle better once I clean the trigger up (possibly the worst marlin trigger I've ever tried)

Weagle

Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38 [Re: Buckeye] #1230409 02/04/07
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Buckeye, it is my considered opinion that much of what Paco Kelly says is downright dangerous. Many if not most of his top-end loads raise the hackles on my neck in trepidation.

Using reformed .30-30 brass for full power .375 loads (or above with even MORE powder!) is simply foolhardy. Again, my opinion only. It's your face snuggled up next to that receiver, not mine. I sincerely wish you well.


Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38 [Re: Coyote_Hunter] #1230498 02/04/07
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Mak Offline
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While I find it potentially interestin to imagine any 336 capable of digesting BB pressures, I also find it interestin that when Marlin creates their own cartridges, they stay well below Win BB pressure limits.
The exception to this rule seems to be their new 30 cal, yet Marlin admits to several upgrades to handle this lil number.
I've been called old, slow n low, an in fact even worse, but my personal point of view goes back to 40,000 or so. Maybe I'm just a stick in the mud, but I think theres a reason Marlin stays around 40 thou with darn near ever cartridge.
Goin back, the .375 was a bold move by Win an Marlin. It was an attempt to update the ol Ballard number with modern components. They changed it around in order for the two rounds to be obviously different, thus most folks would be savvy enuf to not load one round in the other type of gun.
Paco has been all over the internet with his views on hotrodding anything that fires a cartridge, an hes been vocal on usin 38-55 brass in the 375 for more powder capacity. He seems to think that even the .375 should go faster. Well, considerin how many guns hes blown up, other folks should be lookin at his stuff a lil sideways.
1ST-the 38-55 brass wont hold up to BB + Paco levels of pressure past a couple of loadings. Bein straight walls, they won't warn ya before they let go. Paco should know this, but I guess hes a great internet hero, an above all this mundane stuff.
Just like with the .35 Rem., the 38-55 is limited to its pressure levels. Thats why we have the .358 Win and the .375 Win.
Any who, any 336 may be able to handle BB pressure levels, but I personally am more comfortable in the 40 thou range.

Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38 [Re: Mak] #1230608 02/04/07
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You are a wise soul, Mak.

In the flying community, we have an axiom:

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots.
But there are no old AND bold pilots.

That holds true for reloaders as well. At least for reloaders with all their original body parts still intact and attached.


Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

Re: Can I shoot 375 Winchester ammunition in my 38 [Re: RockyRaab] #1230714 02/04/07
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What about Chuck Yeager, Neil Armstrong, etc?

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