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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
Not one to analyze and abscess over every detail.
I drew a big bull permit (Elk) in Washington state (Peaches Ridge). The angle I'm going to take is to go in light on foot and cover some ground. Once the Elk is down. My brother will bring my horses in for the pack out.
I'm not looking for Google-Fu experts! I'm looking for real world advice from having been there and done that. Price doesn't matter, what's ones life worth and or comfort worth in the extreme changing weather conditions here in the Great NorthWest?
I want a super lite weight/ compact sleeping system that is good to 17 degrees or so.
Please let me know your thoughts. I may need to pack it for up to 12 days.
All the best things in life, live on the other side off fear.
The true eye sees not the despair of its victims, only the elegance of equilibrium. It's a demonstration of superior judgment.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273 |
-Synthetic bag rated to 15 or 20 degrees (I use a MountainHardwear Ultra Lamina 15).
-ThermaRest NeoAir X-Therm or X-Lite.
-Thermarest Z-pad.
The closed cell Z Pad will help a lot with insulation from the ground and comes at a minimal weight penalty. Doubles as a great glassing pad. Synthetic insulation is the only thing I'd consider in the Northwest. If sub 20 temps are expected I may consider a light sleeping bag liner as well.
Disclaimer: I'm just a Google Fu expert
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,078 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,078 Likes: 5 |
That's what I use but since I'm mostly hunting in CO, I use a 15 degree down bag, Marmot helium. When I did brave the rains that tanner googled, I used a Kifaru 20 degree slick bag, worked great. At least, that's what all the reviews I read said.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748 |
I'm trying an REI Magma bag this year with a Therm-A-Rest Neo-Air. Used a 15deg Kelty for many years which worked but required extra layers when temps were in the teens. I've used, and been happy with, the Exped downmat 7pad. It's a bit bulkier and heavier though and thus the reason I'm trying the NeoAir. I also have a Z-Pad or a Roll of foam that I may, or may not, include. Tanner is right that weigh is not an issue, but space may be. Need to see if I have space available. Probably will on shorter hunt, not sure about longer where I have a lot more food. If moisture is a real possibility I agree that synthetic would be the way to go on the bag.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,390 Likes: 4
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,390 Likes: 4 |
Read up on backpacking quilts. They're considerably lighter than sleeping bags and can be found in 10 to 20 degree versions.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,852
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,852 |
I'm trying an REI Magma bag this year with a Therm-A-Rest Neo-Air. . I use the same setup. I bought the REI Magma last year and used it in WY and CO. It is a Marmot Helium knockoff. I was comfortable in WY when temps went into the 20's. In CO, we had temps in the 30s and it was too warm. The bonus is that I bought it at an REI sale for $179 shipped to my house <G> Good bag.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,936
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,936 |
Take a look at enlightened equipment's quilts...if you pair them with Tanner's pad suggestions you can be less than 3 lbs all up.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Z-Lite, inflatable, quilt. Easy.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,516
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,516 |
X-Lite and Enlightened Equipment 20 degree quilt for me. Most reviews say the EE ratings are anout 10 degrees optimistic so keep that in mind. Those guys are great to work with. Were very helpful when I was spec’ing out my quilt.
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7 |
Look into back packing quilts/ hammocking quilts I've got a down 30 degree quilt that when paired with my down puffer will get me well into the 20s on the ground. A slightly lower rated quilt and your base layer should get you down well into the teens if not single digits. Check out these - http://www.hammockgear.com/econ-quilts/ I run their 10 degree bottom quilt with my 30 degree sierra design top quilt ( i would have bought a hammock gear top quilt if i had known about them at the time!) and ended sweating down the upper twenties, had to strip off my puffer and ended up using it as a pillow. As for ground pads. look into a klymit insulated short or ultra light. if you feet stick out past the end who cares.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,575
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,575 |
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,575
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,575 |
Look into back packing quilts/ hammocking quilts I've got a down 30 degree quilt that when paired with my down puffer will get me well into the 20s on the ground. A slightly lower rated quilt and your base layer should get you down well into the teens if not single digits. Check out these - http://www.hammockgear.com/econ-quilts/ I run their 10 degree bottom quilt with my 30 degree sierra design top quilt ( i would have bought a hammock gear top quilt if i had known about them at the time!) and ended sweating down the upper twenties, had to strip off my puffer and ended up using it as a pillow. As for ground pads. look into a klymit insulated short or ultra light. if you feet stick out past the end who cares. Who cares? Anyone who does not want to freeze all night. Those feet need to be on the pad,
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,852 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,852 Likes: 2 |
I like the Kymit pads but full length. The design prevents the rolling on parallel cell pads. And a little wider too so my arms don't flop off when I'm on my back. Here's the one I use https://www.klymit.com/static-v2.html Comes in at about a pound, but still use a closed cell pad on top like Tanner suggested.
“Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.” ― G. Orwell
"Why can't men kill big game with the same cartridges women and kids use?" _Eileen Clarke
"Unjust authority confers no obligation of obedience." - Alexander Hamilton
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7 |
that pad isn't insulated, if you end up sleeping on top of snow or ice, or just in really cold temps, your gonna be really cold. especially with a quilt because quilts are used more like a blanket sleep bags do give some slight insulation on bottom, here's what OP should get - https://www.klymit.com/insulated-static-v-lite.htmlObviously you need to use a somewhat puncture resistant ground cloth or mat foot print to protect an inflatable mat. could argue that foam is better, but I sleep better on an inflatable and sleeping well in cold weather is important, because the more I'm awake the colder i tend to get just sitting there trying to fall back asleep. IMO in an alpine environment, I don't ground sleep any more, I use a hammock with quilts and a tarp. My winter system only weights 8 1/3 lbs and I can sleep any where there's trees, and I can use my tarp for 2 hammocks around the same tree (you also stay warmer with a second person) plus I don't need level ground.
Last edited by OReloader; 11/08/17.
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7 |
Look into back packing quilts/ hammocking quilts I've got a down 30 degree quilt that when paired with my down puffer will get me well into the 20s on the ground. A slightly lower rated quilt and your base layer should get you down well into the teens if not single digits. Check out these - http://www.hammockgear.com/econ-quilts/ I run their 10 degree bottom quilt with my 30 degree sierra design top quilt ( i would have bought a hammock gear top quilt if i had known about them at the time!) and ended sweating down the upper twenties, had to strip off my puffer and ended up using it as a pillow. As for ground pads. look into a klymit insulated short or ultra light. if you feet stick out past the end who cares. Who cares? Anyone who does not want to freeze all night. Those feet need to be on the pad, who cares is no one who's actually running this stuff in the back country. your head doesn't need to be on the pad either, I typically shove extra cloths under my head inside a stuff sack or on my main pack. if your heels just extend past the pad, but are inside a quilt, that and a good pair of socks will take care of your feet just fine. Do you even quilt bro? if your body and legs are warm on top of a nice insulated pad then your feet will be fine even in sub freezing temps. By going with a short pad you can shave 4-5 ounces in some cases, and still have a very robust pad. On the other side of the argument if you skimp on insulation you can have a full pad with extra width and your ass is going to freeze off right around 32* Ounce's add up quick out there, especially when your talking food and water and a rifle.
Last edited by OReloader; 11/08/17.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,575
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,575 |
Look into back packing quilts/ hammocking quilts I've got a down 30 degree quilt that when paired with my down puffer will get me well into the 20s on the ground. A slightly lower rated quilt and your base layer should get you down well into the teens if not single digits. Check out these - http://www.hammockgear.com/econ-quilts/ I run their 10 degree bottom quilt with my 30 degree sierra design top quilt ( i would have bought a hammock gear top quilt if i had known about them at the time!) and ended sweating down the upper twenties, had to strip off my puffer and ended up using it as a pillow. As for ground pads. look into a klymit insulated short or ultra light. if you feet stick out past the end who cares. Who cares? Anyone who does not want to freeze all night. Those feet need to be on the pad, who cares is no one who's actually running this stuff in the back country. your head doesn't need to be on the pad either, I typically shove extra cloths under my head inside a stuff sack or on my main pack. if your heels just extend past the pad, but are inside a quilt, that and a good pair of socks will take care of your feet just fine. Do you even quilt bro? if your body and legs are warm on top of a nice insulated pad then your feet will be fine even in sub freezing temps. By going with a short pad you can shave 4-5 ounces in some cases, and still have a very robust pad. On the other side of the argument if you skimp on insulation you can have a full pad with extra width and your ass is going to freeze off right around 32* Ounce's add up quick out there, especially when your talking food and water and a rifle. I've 'run this stuff in the back country' for longer than I care to dwell on. If your heels are on the ground, you will feel it. If you want to use a short pad and perch your head and feet on dirty underwear or dead marmots for insulation, be my guest.
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7 |
Look into back packing quilts/ hammocking quilts I've got a down 30 degree quilt that when paired with my down puffer will get me well into the 20s on the ground. A slightly lower rated quilt and your base layer should get you down well into the teens if not single digits. Check out these - http://www.hammockgear.com/econ-quilts/ I run their 10 degree bottom quilt with my 30 degree sierra design top quilt ( i would have bought a hammock gear top quilt if i had known about them at the time!) and ended sweating down the upper twenties, had to strip off my puffer and ended up using it as a pillow. As for ground pads. look into a klymit insulated short or ultra light. if you feet stick out past the end who cares. Who cares? Anyone who does not want to freeze all night. Those feet need to be on the pad, who cares is no one who's actually running this stuff in the back country. your head doesn't need to be on the pad either, I typically shove extra cloths under my head inside a stuff sack or on my main pack. if your heels just extend past the pad, but are inside a quilt, that and a good pair of socks will take care of your feet just fine. Do you even quilt bro? if your body and legs are warm on top of a nice insulated pad then your feet will be fine even in sub freezing temps. By going with a short pad you can shave 4-5 ounces in some cases, and still have a very robust pad. On the other side of the argument if you skimp on insulation you can have a full pad with extra width and your ass is going to freeze off right around 32* Ounce's add up quick out there, especially when your talking food and water and a rifle. I've 'run this stuff in the back country' for longer than I care to dwell on. If your heels are on the ground, you will feel it. If you want to use a short pad and perch your head and feet on dirty underwear or dead marmots for insulation, be my guest. Strange, that's not my experience at all, with the foot of my quilt or bag over my feet they stay plenty warm. seem's if the only thing you can figure to think to prop your head up on is your skivies you must not have much imagination, or you must be going some where where you don't need much gear. Here in oregon. you're going to have some rain gear, a puffy jacket or fleace, and some spare silk weight thermal's that all stuff into a sack makes a fairly good sized pillow to keep your head off the cold ground. To each their own I guess.
Last edited by OReloader; 11/09/17.
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 478
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 478 |
I live in BC, born and raised some 50 miles north of the 49th and started backpack camping spring, 1964. My favourite rig of several I own for your situation is my Western Mountaineering Terralite or Sequoia, depending on how late in the season it is and a full length Z-Rest Large plus an Exped Seven Large and a fleece sack full of clean duds for a pillow.
I have synthetic bags, very good ones, but, now mostly use down and have used various highend down bags even on the BC Coast, wettest region in North America, by actual measurement, for decades with NO issues. I seem to sleep better in down bags than synthetics and I also carry a light eVent bivy and Siltarp which all together works just fine.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,457 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,457 Likes: 2 |
SNAP -
Tell me 'bout the eVent bivy .. make / model / size / etc, if you don't mind?
Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 478
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 478 |
I have two eVent bivies, and one older GT bivy. These are all made by Integral Designs, of Calgary, AB. Canada. They are now RAB and made in Asia and I would not have one as a gift.
1. South Col eVent bivy, OD-for hunting as I keep my hunting gear separate from my regular backpacking gear except my down bags.
2. Bugaboo eVent bivy, yellow, this is my "emerg" bivy and is carried with my Exped. Wallcreeper PL bag plus tarp for survival should I be injured when recreational hiking. I also use this with a Wildthings Gear half bag and my ID Dolomite jacket for winter snowshoe treks.
3. Original ID GT OD Unishelter, with ID OD Silwing, my "retired" bivy bought long ago for hunting spike camps and now it lives in a duffle in my Tacoma 4x4 should I get stranded on a BC mountain pass in several feet of snow and -30. I wish I had bought an eVent one of these when they were still available, best bivy overall I have used since my old Black's of Scotland, in 1969 and two Early Winters GT bivies after that.
At present, I prefer the look of the Borah Gear eVent bivy, BUT, I cannot recommend it from actual use as I have never had one, just photos which look good to me.
HTH, JMHO.
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