Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire a new religious thread, because they just keep on coming.

I think you are correct.

Why do you keep saying that I put the Bible ahead of the Spirit? That's nonsense. The Bible was given to us to teach us about God, Jesus, and the Spirit. It was given to us as an infallible book to keep us from error. It's a book of instructions but it's just words. It saves no one but it leads us to the one who does. If it's just the words of men, then it can lead to error.

BTW, read the context of blasphemy against the Spirit in Mark 3: 22-30. It says that the eternal sin is calling the Spirit evil. It's very specific.

This portion of John 1 describes all I need to know about Who the Christ is and why I should and have received Him. Personally, I have no doubt about the virgin birth or any other miracle found in the Bible. None require God to invalidate his laws when we realize we don't fully know his laws or anything except what has been revealed, however that revelation happens.The mission of the Holy Spirit is to lead and guide us to the Truth. Should we die without finding that Truth, we are guilty of the blaspheme Gene mentioned and nothing else can bring that upon mankind. Those are my beliefs. Here's the portion of John I, describing the Man and the Mystery of Jesus of Nazareth :

John 1King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Perhaps in the sense that Mary is given uncommon grace and is a venerable person, but she is not divine, all her grace is sourced in He who is divine and is the one redeemer. That is Church doctrine.

My post was intended “if the shoe fits, wear it”. If it doesn’t fit you personally you should just ignore it.

I look at what happened prior to Jesus commenting about an unforgivable sin: Some priests had just claimed that He had used the power of Satan to heal the sick and to cast out demons, rather than the power of the Holy Spirit. Common sense dictates that the blasphemy He is referring to is denying the works done by the Spirit by assigning credit to another source.

To believe a man is capable, relying on his intellect, of discerning God’s will for him by reading words written by other men is usurping the role of the Spirit and thus is blasphemy. I care not how many Strong Concordance volumes a student studies to help him understand the Bible, he is relying on man made doctrine.

In short, the Spirit can instruct without using a bible, but the bible is just another book unless the Spirit opens a man’s mind to truth found in it.

To claim the Bible MUST be infallible to have any worth is, once again, blasphemy against the Spirit.

23 So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: "How can Satan drive out Satan?
24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come.
...
29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
30 He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."

They weren't saying that Jesus had used the power of some demon. Jesus knew they were referring to the Spirit and he called them on it. They were toast and he told them so...or is this one of the places where you say the Bible is wrong?

Why did you start your quote at verse 23? Could it be because verse 22 is the one that proves my point?

That’s where the teachers of the law say something like:

“ He is possessed by Beezlebub. By the prince of demons he is casting out demons.”

They knew who Jesus was and Jesus knew they knew. They hated him and tried to accuse him in front of the people. Their lies cost them their very souls.

Why do you insist that Jesus was wrong? He's God. He's infallible. He's all knowing. Jesus called them for calling the Holy Spirit evil. It's right there in scripture but you keep saying they were talking about a demon. Jesus knew they weren't talking about a demon.

The mere fact God gave mankind 'free will' means that Gods willingness/desire that all be saved,
will not be fore filled.

As far as Gods offering of grace goes, Its not a compulsory offering, its only something God
chooses to offer.

Grace is God blessing people despite the fact they do not deserve it. Mercy is deliverance from judgment.
Grace is extending kindness to the unworthy.

According to Bible, we have all sinned (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8). As a result of that sin,
we all deserve death(Romans 6:23) and eternal judgment in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:12-15). With that
in mind, every day we live is an act of God's mercy. If God gave us all what we deserve, we would all be,
right now, condemned for eternity.

Its only Gods choices that then give humans choices.

Well said and i agree.

You are making no sense at all.

I’m done.

They rejected Him. Its easy to be better than the Pharisees.

Despite all that,

> Jesus expressed that he felt forsaken by God. (Matthew 27:46)

"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say,
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

> Jesus made clear he did not share the same will and 'all knowing' capability as God the Father.
He was dependent on and subservient to the Father.

(Mark 13:32)
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven,
neither the Son, but the Father"

(John 5:19)
"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself,
but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

(John 5:30)
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will,
but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

I agree with what you are saying but there is another aspect that's very important for us to realize.
Once we are saved,and have received God's grace, we should not look at ourselves as undeserving.
To do so is to deny what Jesus has done,for it is He who through his blood has made us to be deserving.
We always know it is not of ourselves but only the gift of grace,but we must also fully receive that gift and through faith see ourselves as God sees us through His blood.
It is only when we see ourselves as righteous,that righteousness takes its rightful place in our lives,for as a man thinketh in his heart,so is he.

Why Emmaculate conception? In all the teachings it is clear Man can't save himself. No matter what we do we fall short. Same reason God chose a drunk (Noah), a Stutterer (Moses), or an Adulterer (Abraham) to lead. If a well spoken natural Leader was chosen, it could easily be said he did good work or led on his own. It's through the imperfect that God's work is credited. Look at the Disciples. None had Shmeha. They weren't the chosen few who were picked to stay in ministry. They all performed poorly in their Rabi's eyes at some point so they took up family occupations. Why did Jesus pick the unspecial, unchosen to be his Disciples? It goes back to the Old Testament. He did it to prove it was God's work and not Mans. I personally believe in the Transfiguration. Jesus became the Messiah. I also think self-sacrifice is above all other things and hold tremendous respect for Serviceman, Fireman, Police, and all other Heros who sacrifice. Our Heros are imperfect but that doesn't change the fact that they give all when called.

In Gus speak "What sense do two Ants make discussing the rotation of the earth while riding on a stray dog's hair?" Sorry Gus, I like your posts but had to have a little fun.

And a quick comment on Starman's last post (didn't read all the posts). Scholars say Jesus comment about being foresaken on the cross reflects Sin and how much God hates Sin. It is something that seemed odd to me. Jesus would doubt God at the end. Until full context is given. Man is dead in Sin and foresaken. Jesus absorb the punishment for our sin and in doing so was also foresaken. He lived the life we couldn't live and died the death we were condemned to die. Forgiveness is not getting what we deserve. Grace is getting what we don't deserve.

One can remain underserving but still show humble sincere acknowledgement and appreciation for God sacrificing
his only begotten son for the world.

Or is that not possible?

I don't see how receiving grace makes one actually deserving of it, for one receives grace despite being underserving.

This thread is starting to get somewhere.

This is a quote from Psalm 22 identifying Jesus as the Messiah so that the Jews could never claim they didn't know he was the Messiah.

Here's Ps 22 in it's entirety. I've highlighted a few of the better known verses concerning Jesus' death. There's no doubt that David wrote this about him 1000 years before. I wonder if any of the Jews put together what they'd done when they considered this Psalm.


1 ¶ For the director of music. To the tune of "The Doe of the Morning". A psalm of David. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, and am not silent.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the praise of Israel.
4 In you our fathers put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them.
5 They cried to you and were saved; in you they trusted and were not disappointed.
6 But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by men and despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads:
8 "He trusts in the LORD; let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him."
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 ¶ Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no-one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions tearing their prey open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted away within me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.
19 But you, O LORD, be not far off; O my Strength, come quickly to help me.
20 Deliver my life from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dogs.
21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions; save me from the horns of the wild oxen.
22 ¶ I will declare your name to my brothers; in the congregation I will praise you.
23 You who fear the LORD, praise him! All you descendants of Jacob, honour him! Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
24 For he has not despised or disdained the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help.
25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly; before those who fear you will I fulfil my vows.
26 The poor will eat and be satisfied; they who seek the LORD will praise him—may your hearts live for ever!
27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the LORD and he rules over the nations.
29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship; all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—those who cannot keep themselves alive.
30 Posterity will serve him; future generations will be told about the Lord.
31 They will proclaim his righteousness to a people yet unborn—for he has done it.