More wars have been fought, and more lives lost over religion than anything I can think of. We can argue it on here until the cows come home, but no one is going to change anyone else's mind. Here is how I see it.......I struggle every day trying to lead a life that I hope will get me in heaven, when the time comes. I accepted Jesus as my savior, and I know that if I do my part, He will do is. I believe that when we get to heaven, we are going to be surprised at who we see, and who we don't see there.
The facts do not agree with your assurtion. The 20th century alone clearly bears this out.
Yes, the wars that occurred during the 20th century may not have been caused by religious differences, but if you go back to the beginning of time, I believe I am correct. Most of the wars that were fought in the Middle Ages had their start because of religious differences.
That is just another way of saying, "I have no varifiable evidence."
And, what you're saying, is that you're an a-hole who just likes to provoke......as you are very well known on here for doing. [/quote]
You seem to be someone who is used to people accepting your position...and not asking you for something more than your opinion as evidence. I understand how asking you for something more than that might be upsetting to you...you haven't learned that you can't fool all of the people all of the time. And, I think it very telling that you revert to name calling when someone does not allow you to run ruff-shod over them.
"But if you go back to the beginning of time?????" OK. Please do.
Last edited by GeorgiaBoy; 11/19/17. Reason: change of tone
As for obedience,I do not strive to obey the new testament.I only listen and do what he says,but yes,it is out of love. He said he would write his laws in my heart and he said his spirit would lead and guide me. Haven't you read that part? Were you too busy making sure you knew all the commandments so you could obey them?[/quote]
You can't keep up with the conversation because you don't want to. After we are saved by God's Grace we love Him so much it shows in our life. Our righteousness will be obvious. Those who want to attack will. Those who love will.
I don't strive to obey the New Testament. It is a joy The idea you like the Part where it is written on your heart came from the Same Book that tells you about the Spirit and gives specific instructions. I choose to obey all as the Spirit gives me strength. And I will be ready for the arrows of hate spewed by folks who want to learn and never come to the loving knowledge of Jesus. [/quote]
If you would talk more about the one who gives the instructions than keeping the instructions ,you wouldn't get the criticism you get. I never hear a single word from you about faith or grace,or love, but you are very quick to pull out the obedience card, as if it were the total measure of one's Christianity.
Sure obedience is in there,but it is only a by product of faith,grace,and love. Try to put it in the forefront and all you have is self effort,which is less than worthless to God.[/quote]
How many times have I stated that and yet you continue to falsely accuse.[/quote]
How many times have you stated what? I haven't accused you of anything. I think I have often suggested that you are relying on works and obedience,but if I do it's only because you are always talking about obedience. You always talk about obedience as if it's the number one thing. It's not,and I don't want you or anyone else to fall by the wayside trying to earn your way into God's favor.
Thanks, Ringman for that effort in standing up for the Word and Truth.
Ringman is a blind because he refuses to see, even when presented with light, and you are following the blind. I do realize the KJV translates the scripture as such, but it is interpreted wrong. I have studied these subjects for decades,reading after the most respected Greek and Hebrew scholars in existence.
It's not,and I don't want you or anyone else to fall by the wayside trying to earn your way into God's favor.
No matter what the conversation you bring it back to trying to earn my way to God's favor. You have a blind spot that does not let you understand when one is saved by God's Grace they want to please the Most High Who gives eternal life.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
And yet both of you have the gift of eternal life and will live together in Heaven because you both believe in Christ as savior.
Will this cease in Heaven?
It will cease this side of Heaven if works is part of the equation.
"Works" is part of the equation. But only for those who believe God's Word. Following we see obedience equals "works".
Philippians 2:12-13
"So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."
How does one show his love for the Lord?
1 John 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
And yet both of you have the gift of eternal life and will live together in Heaven because you both believe in Christ as savior.
Will this cease in Heaven?
It will cease this side of Heaven if works is part of the equation.
"Works" is part of the equation. But only for those who believe God's Word. Following we see obedience equals "works".
Philippians 2:12-13
"So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."
How does one show his love for the Lord?
1 John 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."
I will agree with your statement that when a person is saved they want to please God. Works however is not a part of an equation that equals salvation. The parts of the salvation equation are, Jesus+ faith+ grace= salvation. Salvation+ renewing the mind to God's way of thinking+time= works.
Right, living decently according to God's will for how we should conduct ourselves is a sign of grace, not a requirement for salvation. Kind David was beloved of God because of his faith, yet he was a murderer. No one doubts he was saved by faith. Were it good works that saved, he'd have been in deep do do.
And yet both of you have the gift of eternal life and will live together in Heaven because you both believe in Christ as savior.
Will this cease in Heaven?
It will cease this side of Heaven if works is part of the equation.
"Works" is part of the equation. But only for those who believe God's Word. Following we see obedience equals "works".
Philippians 2:12-13
"So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."
How does one show his love for the Lord?
1 John 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."
I will agree with your statement that when a person is saved they want to please God. Works however is not a part of an equation that equals salvation. The parts of the salvation equation are, Jesus+ faith+ grace= salvation. Salvation+ renewing the mind to God's way of thinking+time= works.
Constantly you elevate your opinion above God's Word. I didn't give an opinion in answering the question. I quoted God's Word. You need to humble yourself before the Most High and pray He grant you repentance.
2 Timothy 2:24-26
"The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will."
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
And yet both of you have the gift of eternal life and will live together in Heaven because you both believe in Christ as savior.
Will this cease in Heaven?
It will cease this side of Heaven if works is part of the equation.
"Works" is part of the equation. But only for those who believe God's Word. Following we see obedience equals "works".
Philippians 2:12-13
"So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."
How does one show his love for the Lord?
1 John 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."
I will agree with your statement that when a person is saved they want to please God. Works however is not a part of an equation that equals salvation. The parts of the salvation equation are, Jesus+ faith+ grace= salvation. Salvation+ renewing the mind to God's way of thinking+time= works.
Constantly you elevate your opinion above God's Word. I didn't give an opinion in answering the question. I quoted God's Word. You need to humble yourself before the Most High and pray He grant you repentance.
2 Timothy 2:24-26
"The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will."
Honestly,I've tried for years to reach you but you won't listen because you think you already know more than anyone else. There is something really wrong with you Rich. You can't even attend a church because none is obedient enough for you. I'll pray for you but I won't converse with you any more on these forums ,so just don't address me directly. You really need to get off your high horse thinking,learn what grace and love are and start applying them to yourself and everyone else.
Really,you can't even talk to anyone with all your attitude of how righteous you think you are. " I didn't give an opinion.I quoted God's Word." You wouldn't even talk like that if you weren't full of yourself. It's fine to quote God's word,but it's even better to know what that word means,and you are as far from that as anyone I've ever met.
If you quoted God's Word instead of your constant attack we could have an adult Christian conversation. I have no problem spending hours conversing with Dr. Kindell. He has three doctorates including one in theology. But he is penitent.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
More wars have been fought, and more lives lost over religion than anything I can think of. We can argue it on here until the cows come home, but no one is going to change anyone else's mind. Here is how I see it.......I struggle every day trying to lead a life that I hope will get me in heaven, when the time comes. I accepted Jesus as my savior, and I know that if I do my part, He will do is. I believe that when we get to heaven, we are going to be surprised at who we see, and who we don't see there.
I don't agree, wars are always about poor men dying for rich men's assets...religion is just the hook that is commonly used.
More politics than religion, coming from the standpoint that in those days politics and religion were truly bedfellows that derived their power from each other. Very much an unholy alliance.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
My thinking is that in their minds, they believe that you should love everybody and accept them the way they are. Okay, I wouldn't have much of a problem with that EXCEPT......I happen to believe in the words that are written in the Bible, that same book that the council also embraces, and in the Bible it is written very plainly.......homosexuality is wrong and so is the switching of the sexes. So, how can claim to follow the Bible, yet ignore what is written in here? In my mind, you can't.
But that is only in your mind. Well....., and other's. But in God's I believe He expects us to offer the same Grace to other's that He did to all of mankind. It also has to be accepted that mankind as it is throughout the entirety of it's examples are despicable and not worthy of spit to the degree the angles have no concept of how we fit into God's plan, knowing only that we do and He Alone is God, so they defer to Him.
So can you offer that same Grace? I believe you should and better as what will become of those who choose to usurp His right to Judgement will receive is far from vague and further from desirable.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
If you quoted God's Word instead of your constant attack we could have an adult Christian conversation. I have no problem spending hours conversing with Dr. Kindell. He has three doctorates including one in theology. But he is penitent.
Ephesians 2:8-9King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
If you quoted God's Word instead of your constant attack we could have an adult Christian conversation. I have no problem spending hours conversing with Dr. Kindell. He has three doctorates including one in theology. But he is penitent.
Ephesians 2:8-9King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
That is pretty plain.
Yep. Pretty clear that Abraham was justified by his faith. Not much good we're capable of doing to earn salvation. The reward for faith is that Jesus satisfies the debt for our sins via his sacrifice on the cross. Of course we should still strive to please God, regardless.
If you quoted God's Word instead of your constant attack we could have an adult Christian conversation. I have no problem spending hours conversing with Dr. Kindell. He has three doctorates including one in theology. But he is penitent.
Ephesians 2:8-9King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
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