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Campfire Ranger
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What I find odd is that the 2.945 OAL won't fit in a "bindered" AICS mag, let alone a Remington short action. That seems like an odd duck to me, all the way around.
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,113 |
What I find odd is that the 2.945 OAL won't fit in a "bindered" AICS mag, let alone a Remington short action. That seems like an odd duck to me, all the way around. I watched the Hornady propaganda video. They said it was for short and med actions, but everything I saw them shooting was LA. The 6.5-284 with long bullets has a 2.98" COAL, its .284 parent round has a 2.8" COAL. The 6.5 PRC seems to be following that pattern. So, who knows. DF
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Joined: Dec 2016
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Campfire Regular
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Remington actions are barking up the wrong tree... all they have is cost/ contacts with wal-mart and acadeamy and other big box stores, real shooters look past their current prodution. They are no longer the standard, more innovative companies have surpassed them. And they are living on borrowed time. For the same price of buying one and getting it trued, you can get any number of semi custom actions that will shoot better and still take all the parts. But even those are tied to a dying standard of remington bolt spacing/ mag box. The world isn't spllit between .308 and 30-06 anymore. Theres alot in between there... just how the pre 64 winchester model 70 were all long action, short actions killed them. Now actions that can support a looooong heavy for caliber bullets while still maintianing case capacity will bury both long and short actions for those in the know who read forum like this and either handload or buy rifles/ factory ammo made to new specs.
The 870 detachable mag? Really? Thats innovative to what crowd? The only advancment remington made in the rifle world, is bolting together everyone elses parts for a 6K custom sheep rifle. I bet they even let someone else true their crappy action...
Creedmore and PRC are good examples of real advances in technology and design. I hope the PRC gets the same support as the Creed as it is something I could really get behind. Creed gives up alot to my 264 Win Mag, if I had known about it 7 years ago I might still have a Beanland custom that I sold as a .260, what I would give to get it back, and have it set back and rechambered to creed and not have bought my 264 win mag...
The PRC can get into the same ballpark as th .264 and let me rebarrel the 264 when it gets shot out to a .338 or something....
Last edited by Mjduct; 12/08/17.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,113
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,113 |
Looking at the numbers, the .264 WM at 79 gr. H2O and the 6.5 PRC at 67 gr. H2O, the PRC is around 15% less case capacity than the .264.
But, with these new powders, remarkable performance is possible.
As aalf quoted George Gardner, "For the 135 a charge of 60.3 grains of RL26 yields 3200 fps. No pressure The 147 does 3000 with 58.2 grains H1000, light pressure . These are out of a 24" Bartlein 1-8 twist 5R. Loaded to 2.945".
That's strong. Lots of performance with less powder.
DF
Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 12/08/17.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,278
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,278 |
The 6.5 PRC (270, Creedmoor, et. al) rely on one powder to approximate larger cases... the problem comes if that powder will not deliver accuracy in the smaller case that one of many other powders might provide the larger case.
At the end of the day, the bigger engine wins.
My philosophy is to accept a smaller cartridge for what it is and not try to make it something it isn't. A 308 Win will never be a 300 WSM, wonderful (and in many ways better) cartridge the 308 Win may be.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,113
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,113 |
The 6.5 PRC (270, Creedmoor, et. al) rely on one powder to approximate larger cases... the problem comes if that powder will not deliver accuracy in the smaller case that one of many other powders might provide the larger case.
At the end of the day, the bigger engine wins.
My philosophy is to accept a smaller cartridge for what it is and not try to make it something it isn't. A 308 Win will never be a 300 WSM, wonderful (and in many ways better) cartridge the 308 Win may be. I know you're right, but think it is pretty cool. I wish Hornady the best. DF
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Joined: Aug 2016
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Campfire Regular
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I wish that if the powers that be want to make something go forward it would be the 6.5 RSAUM. It is well thought out and delivers beyond what this cartridge does. If the whole 'wildcat' problem is it's only downfall than just standardize the one the everyone is gravitating to..the GAP 4S. How in the hell can that be any more an issue than coming out with another frigging cart that underperforms the best thing going?
Now I understand the eternal butthurt of the the .260/Swede guys vs. the Creedmoor crowd. What can this stupid PRC thing do that the GAP can't do better? Put the marketing there!
Liberalism; The impossible yet accepted notion that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
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Any word on when rifles will be hitting the shelves? Who's gonna be chambering em?
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,179 |
Any word on when rifles will be hitting the shelves? Who's gonna be chambering em?
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,278
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,278 |
I wish Hornady the best.
DF
Same here!
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 965
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2011
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Think a 143 grain will reach 3100 fps using reloader 17 in the PRC?
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959 |
Just saw a Hornady ad for the 6.5 PRC in "Rifle" issue 296. Claiming 2960 out of the 143 ELD-X. Sounds interesting...
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,081
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
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Think a 143 grain will reach 3100 fps using reloader 17 in the PRC? These fancy new ballistics are likely a reason the .30/06 or .270 still find favor with people who look at ballistics. Nothing new, nothing to offer, while hunting the animals that such a caliber would be suited. There are basically 3 levels of hunting cartridges, .270 ish, meaning everything from the 6mm's through until the .33's which are generally used on the under about 800 pounds meaning, expected to perform the same tasks, second level is the .375 ish, which covers the heavier loaded 33's and .366's up to the heavier 375's then there are the hammers, the rounds to slam tonnage and distemper. Cartridges are more the same than different and no-one who ever pulled a trigger can name a single animal that cartridge "A" can kill where cartridge "B" cannot kill. Still I have an active golf set of calibers in the safe just like everyone else so the circle and recycle continues...........
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,303
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,303 |
Looking at the numbers, the .264 WM at 79 gr. H2O and the 6.5 PRC at 67 gr. H2O, the PRC is around 15% less case capacity than the .264.
But, with these new powders, remarkable performance is possible.
As aalf quoted George Gardner, "For the 135 a charge of 60.3 grains of RL26 yields 3200 fps. No pressure The 147 does 3000 with 58.2 grains H1000, light pressure . These are out of a 24" Bartlein 1-8 twist 5R. Loaded to 2.945".
That's strong. Lots of performance with less powder.
DF It sounds like a ripper in a light’ish sorta rifle DF.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 965
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 965 |
Think a 143 grain will reach 3100 fps using reloader 17 in the PRC? These fancy new ballistics are likely a reason the .30/06 or .270 still find favor with people who look at ballistics. Nothing new, nothing to offer, while hunting the animals that such a caliber would be suited. There are basically 3 levels of hunting cartridges, .270 ish, meaning everything from the 6mm's through until the .33's which are generally used on the under about 800 pounds meaning, expected to perform the same tasks, second level is the .375 ish, which covers the heavier loaded 33's and .366's up to the heavier 375's then there are the hammers, the rounds to slam tonnage and distemper. Cartridges are more the same than different and no-one who ever pulled a trigger can name a single animal that cartridge "A" can kill where cartridge "B" cannot kill. Still I have an active golf set of calibers in the safe just like everyone else so the circle and recycle continues........... I fully agree, however find myself cursed with rifle loonieism. I never bought into the 6.5 creedmoor, not because it's not a good cartridge, but I have a 6.5x55 swede. The 6.5 prc offers significant performance over both the creed and swede, particularly to handloaders. 3100 fps with a 143 puts it on the same ftlb level as a 300 w/ 180 grain- 3000fps, out to 600+ yards. Again, a # mind game....
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,137 |
Think a 143 grain will reach 3100 fps using reloader 17 in the PRC? These fancy new ballistics are likely a reason the .30/06 or .270 still find favor with people who look at ballistics. Nothing new, nothing to offer, while hunting the animals that such a caliber would be suited. There are basically 3 levels of hunting cartridges, .270 ish, meaning everything from the 6mm's through until the .33's which are generally used on the under about 800 pounds meaning, expected to perform the same tasks, second level is the .375 ish, which covers the heavier loaded 33's and .366's up to the heavier 375's then there are the hammers, the rounds to slam tonnage and distemper. Cartridges are more the same than different and no-one who ever pulled a trigger can name a single animal that cartridge "A" can kill where cartridge "B" cannot kill. Still I have an active golf set of calibers in the safe just like everyone else so the circle and recycle continues........... I fully agree, however find myself cursed with rifle loonieism. I never bought into the 6.5 creedmoor, not because it's not a good cartridge, but I have a 6.5x55 swede. The 6.5 prc offers significant performance over both the creed and swede, particularly to handloaders. 3100 fps with a 143 puts it on the same ftlb level as a 300 w/ 180 grain- 3000fps, out to 600+ yards. Again, a # mind game.... Another point of view not considered by most...... My "hobby" is plinking and playing long range to a mile or more. I'm re-barreling a gun in this cartridge for that usage, however, not saying I won't use it for a LR deer hunt. Initial research shows it'll stay supersonic to, or over, one mile, in a cartridge that doesn't pound you to a pulp, or need a brake in a lighter gun.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,113
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,113 |
Think a 143 grain will reach 3100 fps using reloader 17 in the PRC? These fancy new ballistics are likely a reason the .30/06 or .270 still find favor with people who look at ballistics. Nothing new, nothing to offer, while hunting the animals that such a caliber would be suited. There are basically 3 levels of hunting cartridges, .270 ish, meaning everything from the 6mm's through until the .33's which are generally used on the under about 800 pounds meaning, expected to perform the same tasks, second level is the .375 ish, which covers the heavier loaded 33's and .366's up to the heavier 375's then there are the hammers, the rounds to slam tonnage and distemper. Cartridges are more the same than different and no-one who ever pulled a trigger can name a single animal that cartridge "A" can kill where cartridge "B" cannot kill. Still I have an active golf set of calibers in the safe just like everyone else so the circle and recycle continues........... I fully agree, however find myself cursed with rifle loonieism. I never bought into the 6.5 creedmoor, not because it's not a good cartridge, but I have a 6.5x55 swede. The 6.5 prc offers significant performance over both the creed and swede, particularly to handloaders. 3100 fps with a 143 puts it on the same ftlb level as a 300 w/ 180 grain- 3000fps, out to 600+ yards. Again, a # mind game.... I gotta Swede, a Creed, a 6.5-284 and a 26 Nosler. Ya need the whole family...  And a 6.5 PRC...  A new round is a great excuse to buy or build a new rifle...  This is the wrong place, the wrong format to be told otherwise... DF
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,081
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,081 |
It will be a terrific cartridge, but I could never forsake the 7mm's or 30's for the 6.5 caliber. I loaded for several 6.5x55's and saw many dozens of animals taken on top of my own kills so I know tbey are all good, but......just more of what is already available. If anything, it probably reinforces tbe competency of the .270 Winchester.
John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,303
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,303 |
Think a 143 grain will reach 3100 fps using reloader 17 in the PRC? These fancy new ballistics are likely a reason the .30/06 or .270 still find favor with people who look at ballistics. Nothing new, nothing to offer, while hunting the animals that such a caliber would be suited. There are basically 3 levels of hunting cartridges, .270 ish, meaning everything from the 6mm's through until the .33's which are generally used on the under about 800 pounds meaning, expected to perform the same tasks, second level is the .375 ish, which covers the heavier loaded 33's and .366's up to the heavier 375's then there are the hammers, the rounds to slam tonnage and distemper. Cartridges are more the same than different and no-one who ever pulled a trigger can name a single animal that cartridge "A" can kill where cartridge "B" cannot kill. Still I have an active golf set of calibers in the safe just like everyone else so the circle and recycle continues........... I fully agree, however find myself cursed with rifle loonieism. I never bought into the 6.5 creedmoor, not because it's not a good cartridge, but I have a 6.5x55 swede. The 6.5 prc offers significant performance over both the creed and swede, particularly to handloaders. 3100 fps with a 143 puts it on the same ftlb level as a 300 w/ 180 grain- 3000fps, out to 600+ yards. Again, a # mind game.... I gotta Swede, a Creed, a 6.5-284 and a 26 Nosler. Ya need the whole family... And a 6.5 PRC... A new round is a great excuse to buy or build a new rifle... This is the wrong place, the wrong format to be told otherwise... DF I couldn’t agree more. Got a Swede, Creed, 264 and now I’m scheming for this PRC.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,113
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,113 |
Think a 143 grain will reach 3100 fps using reloader 17 in the PRC? These fancy new ballistics are likely a reason the .30/06 or .270 still find favor with people who look at ballistics. Nothing new, nothing to offer, while hunting the animals that such a caliber would be suited. There are basically 3 levels of hunting cartridges, .270 ish, meaning everything from the 6mm's through until the .33's which are generally used on the under about 800 pounds meaning, expected to perform the same tasks, second level is the .375 ish, which covers the heavier loaded 33's and .366's up to the heavier 375's then there are the hammers, the rounds to slam tonnage and distemper. Cartridges are more the same than different and no-one who ever pulled a trigger can name a single animal that cartridge "A" can kill where cartridge "B" cannot kill. Still I have an active golf set of calibers in the safe just like everyone else so the circle and recycle continues........... I fully agree, however find myself cursed with rifle loonieism. I never bought into the 6.5 creedmoor, not because it's not a good cartridge, but I have a 6.5x55 swede. The 6.5 prc offers significant performance over both the creed and swede, particularly to handloaders. 3100 fps with a 143 puts it on the same ftlb level as a 300 w/ 180 grain- 3000fps, out to 600+ yards. Again, a # mind game.... I gotta Swede, a Creed, a 6.5-284 and a 26 Nosler. Ya need the whole family... And a 6.5 PRC... A new round is a great excuse to buy or build a new rifle... This is the wrong place, the wrong format to be told otherwise... DF I couldn’t agree more. Got a Swede, Creed, 264 and now I’m scheming for this PRC.  Spoken like a true Loony, my kinda man... Go for it bro... DF
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