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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I'd rather die in a BAD gunfight than a GOOD nursing home.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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"God said nothing? For starters, Jesus rose from the dead to save us all."
You missed my point. I grant you that that occurred. Also I pointed out how Paul converted a bunch of worldly Romans from their age-old religion to what was considered to be a Jewish sect. Hard to believe that if all Paul said ws what christians preach today. But my point was...what similar thing did God do since then?
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The second death is the death of ones soul and spirit.
Then they will cease to exist.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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"God said nothing? For starters, Jesus rose from the dead to save us all."
You missed my point. I grant you that that occurred. Also I pointed out how Paul converted a bunch of worldly Romans from their age-old religion to what was considered to be a Jewish sect. Hard to believe that if all Paul said ws what christians preach today. But my point was...what similar thing did God do since then? Billions have missed it.....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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"God said nothing? For starters, Jesus rose from the dead to save us all."
You missed my point. I grant you that that occurred. Also I pointed out how Paul converted a bunch of worldly Romans from their age-old religion to what was considered to be a Jewish sect. Hard to believe that if all Paul said ws what christians preach today. But my point was...what similar thing did God do since then? I quoted Jesus when he said that no further sign would be given. We have what we have. But how much do you need? He died for you. Isn't that enough?
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The second death is the death of ones soul and spirit.
Then they will cease to exist. Yep. and the fact that they will cease to exist for all eternity, is in itself a form of eternal punishment, ie; they will never be resurrected from the 2nd death....the punishment stands! people shouldn't confuse ' eternal punishment' with an 'eternal torment'.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Revelation 14:11, "And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever."
What part of 'torment' and 'forever and ever' is unclear here?
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It never said eternal that’s where.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Matthew 25:46, "These shall go away into everlasting punishment but the righteous into eternal life."
Mark 9:43, "And if your hand makes you sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched."
Revelation 14:11, "And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever."
Did you notice that the versus you quoted used the word eternal for the righteous If hell was eternal why would it not use the same word for it. It used everlasting punishment for hell. Think about it. For ever and ever is a segment of time. I said before there is only one form of eternal life = God Saying hell is eternal would be making hell equal with God or making it God. That’s rediculous.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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For ever and ever is a segment of time..
Scripture has numerous examples of 'forever'' being applied , but meaning only for as long as the situation lasted in each specific case. Jonah 2:6, mentions forever, which turns out to be 3 days and 3 nights. If one no longer has a place , then one cannot be in a place of eternal torment..... Psalm 37:10 "For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more; Indeed, you will look carefully for his place,
But it shall be no more ."
ultimately, Satan will be destroyed, and be no more... Ezekiel 28:18-19 18 "By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries
So I made a fire come out from you,and it consumed you,and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
19 "All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.’”
ultimately, the 2nd death crowd will also be destroyed.... n]MALACHI 4:1-3 (NIV) "1. Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble,
and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.
2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its rays. And you will go out
and frolic like well-fed calves.
3 Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet
on the day when I act,” says the Lord Almighty."
Matthew 7:13 " Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction,
and many there be which go in thereat."Ezekiel 18:4 " Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine:
the soul that sinneth, it shall die".Romans 6:23 "23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.PSALMS 37:38 http://biblehub.com/psalms/37-38.htm
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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"God said nothing? For starters, Jesus rose from the dead to save us all."
You missed my point. I grant you that that occurred. Also I pointed out how Paul converted a bunch of worldly Romans from their age-old religion to what was considered to be a Jewish sect. Hard to believe that if all Paul said ws what christians preach today. But my point was...what similar thing did God do since then? I quoted Jesus when he said that no further sign would be given. We have what we have. But how much do you need? He died for you. Isn't that enough? Assuming Jesus actually said that, and it wasn't inserted by some author to rationalize why no further sign actually was given, why SHOULD no further sign be given? Don't Jesus and/or God want non-believers, Moslems, etc. to be convinced? If not, why punish them for not being convinced? No further sign is like putting one speed limit sign on the turnpike when you enter a state, instead of putting up periodic reminders. Makes no sense. The objective is NOT to arrest 90% of the drivers for speeding. It's to get 90% of them to drive within the speed limit. Think how easy it would be (or should be) for someone who can create the whole universe to convince billions of people to believe in Christ.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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.....and this is where predestination enters.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Okay I'm confused.
First, Hymenaus and Philetus, whoever these people were did not impress the Apostle Paul much so that is a giant, colossal, big ass, honking, red flag right there that whatever they believed was wrong. He made a negative statement without detail about them in One Timothy as well.
Next, tradition states that Paul was murdered by the Romans sometime around AD 67 so he wrote both One and Two Timothy before then. So if Hymenaus and Philetus were teaching that the resurrection had already happened in time for Paul to write about them, they were doing it before the destruction of the Temple in AD 70 when the "spiritual resurrection" was alleged to take place by these folks. So that would make them wrong about it even if it were true. So my question is, can the people espousing this theory not count?
Further, what pages of the Bible do you have to tear out in order to make this theory work? Perhaps One Thessolonians 4: 16-18. If the second coming has already taken place, are we waiting for the 3rd in which Jesus "comes down from heaven"? Anytime someone comes to me with some kind of new "revelation" that requires me to twist, edit, or omit other scriptures, I gong it pretty quick. No end to all manner of cockamamie stuff has been concocted based on one verse which could easily be dismissed as garbage if people would only read the Bible and think for themselves and apply its whole counsel. When you fail to do that you are liable to wind up dancing with a rattlesnake in some little church in the Appalachian mountains.......or some such mental equivalent.
Well said. Amen.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Indy, the sign He sends today is internal, not external. And it is given to each man individually with no pomp or circumstance and for sure with no need for a middleman.
Lay aside all preconceptions of God and ask the true God to reveal Himself to you.
Jesus is the One who will show up, and you will know God in a personal way. Faith will be given you as a gift.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I am of the mind when one is cast into the lake of fire their suffering is not long lasting, though they may smoke forever.
Hell may last forever, but i think not the torment thereof. Christ came to give the good news of everlasting life, instead of tge bad news of everlasting torment, but i dont care to bet my life on it.
So, i asked that if He were truth, He would come into my heart and make me believe. Now, I believe He is the son of God and died for my sins and that He rose on the 3rd day, so i guess He came into my heart and made me believe.
Thank you Jesus and praise and glory be to you for saving a wretch like me. Amen.
Last edited by jaguartx; 12/15/17.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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2 Tim 2:16-18
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Hymenaus and Philetus were Judaizing teachers of the Circumcision who taught that the Gentile Christians must be circumcised and keep the law. By claiming the (spiritual) resurrection of Israel was already past, they could also claim that God intended for Christians to keep the law. The Temple was still standing, the daily sacrifices were still made by the priests, and nothing had changed since the death of Christ. This teaching could and did overthrow the faith of some. Nobody at that time was teaching our modern day traditional and literal Second Coming of Christ in the Clouds with a simultaneous resurrection of dead bodies on land and sea lining up as sheep and goats to literally stand before the judgment seat of Christ to be separated into heaven and hell.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Amazing, isnt it, how stress and worry of the day melts away and peace and comfort and calmness prevails within ones self when discussing and contemplating the miracles and blessings He has given us.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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There is no giving up of any powers, He said He could’ve called legions of angels to help Him at any moment.
God and Jesus are one.
Jesus did not say he would himself direct angels to his side, he said he could call on /ask his Father to deliver angles to his side. Matthew 26:53 http://biblehub.com/matthew/26-53.htmand when Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to his disciples, it was in the form of a request he would put to his Father to provide such. John 14:16 http://biblehub.com/john/14-16.htmJohn 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you
I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."*** i have no doubt that Jesus would receive from Father what he requests, but the powers and authority Jesus has are only semi-autonomous for they are all granted and delivered by the Father.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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