Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Mueller Violates the Law

Special Counsel Robert Mueller is accused of acting in complete disregard for the law and must be removed. And so, too, must his entire team.

There is devastating new evidence to suggest that Mueller and his staff of lawyers improperly, if not illegally, obtained tens of thousands of private documents belonging to President-elect Trump's Presidential Transition Team (PTT). The material includes emails, laptops and cell phones used by 13 PTT members.

Critically, a "significant volume of privileged material" was taken by Mueller, according to the Trump transition lawyer, and then used by the special counsel team in its investigation. Mueller's staff apparently admits this egregious violation, which the law strictly forbids.

Under the law, the only remedy is Mueller's dismissal from the case.

MORE IN ARTICLE

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017...ed-his-probe-and-demand-his-removal.html

That's OK. He get a pass since he served in the Marine Corps. I've been assured this is true right here on the 'fire.

They not only need fired, but they need prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Sessions needs to clean house, then resign himself.... (Just as he recused himself.)

ya know, I'd give a lot of leeway to someone who served in the Corps....

But this isn't one of them....

its more along the lines, he's a DemocRAT ( which I don't know how someone who served in the Marines, could ever
hate his country enough to become a democRAT).....

DemocRATS always think they are above the law, or abiding by it, just doesn't apply to them...

Kinda like the Blue's Brothers... they think they are on a Mission From God...

The entire team needs to be flushed, because they are all democRATS out to wreck Trump's Presidency...

Not find what might be wrong in an unbiased outcome... but have a focused outcome...

This 100%

But I will add since they knew what the law was they need to serve 10 time the penalty as a message to the ones that follow.

Do the Crime and do the Time

Not only was he Marine, he served in Vietnam. Just like John Kerry.

Mueller is a RINO

I don't think so.

He's simply a big government, establishment guy. All of those are commies. No matter what they call themselves.

As a side note, Mark Shields was a Marine.

What law did Mueller allegedly break?

Excuse me. (raising hand) If Mueller asked for the documents and some idiot handed them over, what law did he violate?

No different than someone asking if you have any porno pics of your wife and you hand them over.

Perfectly legal. It might be private property, but if you hand it over it violates no law. Whoever handed them over may be may have some issues to face. Mueller's people may well have copied a bunch of documents in anticipation of them being requested returned. Whatever they saw cannot be unseen, and that may form the basis of a subpoena as evidence of a crime and they may then be forced to turn over the subpoenaed documents, and maybe a whole lot more as well. It's the same reason you NEVER allow a cop to search your vehicle/property/home without a warrant. If the cop says I think I smell marijuana mind if I search your vehicle? and you consent whatever he finds that may be evidence of a crime of any sort might be used against you even if the vehicle is absolutely clean of drugs

Deep state is holding Mueller's strings.

As simple as that and noone is investigating the Majic Negro who is one of the bosses.

The law sets up the transition team as a private corporation. It also requires the GSA to provide office space, equipment, and email. It requires the GSA to keep the email system secure. The emails do not belong to the GSA. They belong to the members of the transition team, and are not government work product.

So for openers, the GSA staff violated the law that created the transition team. Someone can, and probably will, put some big time hurt on whoever released the information.

Mueller violated the 4th Amendment, by asking for and receiving private communications without a warrant.

He also violated the law that says that if he discovers that he is in possession of private or privileged communication, he must stop reviewing the material, notify the owner, and return it. Instead, he has used that material as the basis for questions he is asking people in the course of his investigation. This is doubly troubling because some of the material is protected by attorney-client privilege. Add to that the fact that some of the contents have been leaked to the press, and you have a really serious legal situation.

I'm no attorney, but it appears to me that any potential prosecutions that result from his investigation are hopelessly compromised. They rely evidence that is now "the poison fruit of a poison tree."

Does the counter argument have any validity?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...erly-obtaining-transition-emails-n830486

Trumps lawyer is claiming Mueller broke the law by obtaining documents from the GSA that were covered by attorney-client privilege. attorney-client privilege is waived when the documents are handed over to a 3rd party other than the client, such as giving the docs to the gsa. Sounds like trumps lawyer messed up and is now trying to cover his own butt


Edit to add: even if GSA agreed to hold the documents back from investigation the privilege would still have been waived when they were first handed over to GSA. Simone in trumps team got sloppy and is now crying foul when mueller exploited it

Why would anyone talk to Mueller?

I don't think the GSA had custody of the documents any more than an ISP has custody of your emails. They can't just do with them as they wish.

from what I read, he's a Republican. he was appointed by GW Bush to head the FBI.

His Marine Corps service looks to be legit. Enlisted, finished boot camp at Parris Island, went to OCS, then became a Marine Officer, So that makes him a mustang. Ranger School, Jump school , Rifle Platoon leader in Vietnam with 3rdMARDIV. In April 1969, he received an enemy gunshot wound in the thigh, recovered, and returned to lead his platoon until June 1969. decorations and awards include: the Bronze Star Medal with Combat "V", Purple Heart Medal, two Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medals with Combat "V", Combat Action Ribbon, National Defense Service Medal, Vietnam Service Medal with three ​3⁄16" bronze stars, Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross, Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal, and Parachutist Badge.

I kind of think that DOES top 5 draft deferments. Your idea of service may differ than mine.

I am reading a very different view of this stroy on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/c...;utm_source=reddit&utm_name=politics

I agree whoever handed over the docs may have issues as I stated.

Someone has to assert that a privilege applies or it must be a plainly evident privilege may apply before Mueller or any attorney on his team is obligated to anything. Obviously it would be unlikely all of it would be so bound. Perhaps a case could be made for executive privilege in the case of the president elect but it would have to be argued that there is but one president at a time. As we saw in the case of Nixon and Reagan executive privilege does indeed have limitations.

Mueller as a special counsel acting as prosecutor has different obligations legally than say an attorney not appointed for investigation of an individual or specific group.

It's not a criminal violation for Mueller to ask for private communications. It is not a criminal violation to receive private communications. It may be that information contained in some such communications may be excluded at trial, but that does not necessarily make it fruit of the poisoned tree, nor does it necessarily make any product derived from it poisoned. It may well, but that's a whole lot of arguing before it gets sorted.

Benedict Arnold was a hero too.

Right, wrong or indifferent, it sure shows us who the liberals here are.

Again. (As if there were any doubt.)

Mueller knows he doesn't have anything on Trump. Therefore he has been instructed to "push the envelope" in an effort to get Trump to fire him, opening the floodgates of critism to be used against R's in the 2018 Midterms. D's have no other spark for the Mid-terms except for "anti-Trump".

Or the Ever-Trumpers.

Sycamore

Really? How many draft deferments did He have?

Sycamore

Provisions of the Presidential Transition Act of 1963 regarding privacy of records.

DF

Trump wasn't my first choice.
But, he was a no-brainer against Hillary... Lyin' criminal, murderous bitch.

But what they are trying to do to him, and everyone that voted for him is criminal... and deadly serious.

well, now that he's cut his own taxes, maybe he'll have time to build his wall.

Sycamore

This is just another "we got the smoking gun evidence on Hillary this time" thread.

This is the main problem that we as conservatives have, we spend too much time wanting to hang the left, rather than getting our agenda passed.

It really doesn't mater whether he broke the law or not. You'd have a tough time getting him convicted by the current jackasses in power. The establishment protects it's own. The thing is that it's gone on far too long and needs to stop. If there was anything to find it would have been found long ago and Trump would be gone. All it's doing now is hindering the operation of government and costing we the taxpayers millions of dollars paying for Mueller and his merry band of democrats to go on micro analyzing everyone ever associated with Trump.

It's far past time to put the monkey to bed and get along with life.

+1

Does the law as written provide for an exception for a law enforcement investigation? That is what Mueller's team is claiming, if it does then the emails were obtained legally, if it doesn't then they were not. The devil is in the details of law as written, to be honest with you I don't have a clue which side has a solid legal argument..

Trump isn't taking any salary for as long as he's president.

Why don't you be patriotic, and do the same... for as long as he's president?

Amen..........

Evidently not without permission from the Transition or a subpoena.

He had neither.

DF

What does the law say? Lots of claims being made without any context to what was actually passed by Congress.

Why can we not hang liberals and still get the job done?

The original 1963 Act has been ammended a few times. Originally it covered mostly financial matters, later more detail on records, etc. Summaries are on the GSA web site.

It seems to me, the GSA was pretty quick to turn all that over, reportedly without notifying the Trump Transition Team, which seems sorta irregular. There are a lot of holdovers still running many government agencies. IMO, they can't drain that swamp quick enough.

Trump says there's nothing there to hide, it's just the process that's bothersome.

DF

You silly boy. It would be a big raise for you to get Trumps salary wouldn't it?

Trump is the first president in modern times not to get out of all his other business, and focus on the peoples business.

How much do you think he just made this year by getting the top tax bracket lowered from 39% to 37%?

How much by changing the pass-through regulations?

Have you got the math skills?

It was a lot more than whatever federal salary he is pretending to forego..

In 500 pages, do you think there might be some good stuff for commercial real-estate in there? I bet there is.

Have you ever seen a magician? they always get you to watch the other hand. that's how it works.

Sycamore

Syamore, you are a typical liberal idiot.
I see you have drank the class envy koolaid.
You Marxist are so easily manipulated, no wonder they call you useful idiots!

No worrie then. I still find it unclear if Mueller actually broke the law or not.

Don't patronize me. I didn't with you. I asked you a question.

Trump shouldn't have to give up everything for a temporary job.

On the other hand, he came to be president as a rich man. The ones before him... Obama, Clinton, Bush, etc. sure LEFT the presidency pretty rich.

That, if nothing else is a welcome change.

I don't see the evidence for any of your statements. (or the name calling)

Sycamore

He won't be fired or dismissed, by anyone, & he will use the illegally obtained e-mails. He' s bound & determined to get Trump, legally or otherwise, & he's not going to step aside either.

MM

Well, reportedly there were classified materials included and I doubt Mueller's band of lawyers has high level or even any security clearance. That material should have been examined by qualified intel folks before turning it loose. Casual handling of classified materials doesn't seem to be a big deal any more...

We'll see how it plays out.

Df

I asked you six questions and you dodged every one.

Especially the main one: How Much Money Does He Make From the New Tax Bill?

What would be patriotic about not taking a salary? It's more smoke and mirrors, from a flim-flam man who has come to town and taken some of the rubes in. Like I said, he's making plenty of money the other way, he doesn't need the salary. He's got the swamp right where he wants them, lining his pockets.

He's still got aliens working at Mar-A-Lago.

Remember when he was going to be too busy to play golf?

Remember when repeal and replace was going to be "so easy"?

People bought that schidt up.

Remember when Roy Moore was no good, then he was good, then he was no good again? Trump is always right, to Trump, and the Ever-Trumpers.

Sycamore

And some Liberals think they are smart and actually believe the schit they write.

Suck it Syc, Trump won, get used to it he'll win again.

Idiots usually don't recognize the fact that they are Idiots, it's part of the disease.

Trump probably doesn't make much money from salary like working people, so I doubt that tax bracket lowering helps him much.

Lowering the top bracket help people who earn salaries & wages, not people who make their money owning assets.

As often is the case on 24CF, All that is way over some heads, they have already made up theirs minds
and have pitchforks and lit torches at the ready for Mueller.





Executive privilege does not apply until one is the executive; these documents are from the TT,
before Trump became the executive.

Trumps TT lawyer claims they were given assurance by the previous GSA-G/C( Beckler) who has since passed away,
that they would 'own and control' the information.

Current GSA -D/C Mr.Loewentritt ,has disputed such...he tells that TTT members were informed that any materials
they produced using government systems could be turned over to LE.

TTT legal reps should have arranged written signed proof of any such alleged assurance given by GSAs Mr.Beckler,
if they don't have such, then they weren't looking after the Transition team as their client.
Even then, a personally issued assurance does not necessarily override the legislated powers of a Fed. investigation
or GSA operating procedures.
People can issue assurances that actually have no legally binding effect. ..So It could be that the TTT legal team failed
in their due diligence.

Loewentritt mentioned a list of agreements that anyone had to agree to when using GSA materials during the transition,
including monitoring and auditing of devices and that, “Therefore, no expectation of privacy can be assumed.”

Loewentritt first suggested a warrant or subpoena for access to the materials, but then decided the Special Counsel’s Office
administrative letter of request for information , was sufficient.







A “reasonable expectation of privacy” under the 4th offers some protection against unreasonable searches and seizures
—ie gov. is required to go to a judge to obtain a warrant based on probable cause.

However, when a third party (GSA) holds the records, courts have ruled there is no reasonable expectation of privacy.
2010, U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit, Rehberg v. Paulk, 'that a person does not have a reasonable expectation
of privacy once any copy of the email is delivered to a third party'

One can piss away any honor they may have earned in past exploits. McStain and Mueller have both overdrawn their accounts.

If theres classified gov. data contained in the material that not even Fed investigators should be privi to,
then why did he TT allow a team of ordinary private lawyers be the appointed administrators of those accounts???

This thread is about a potentially illegal probe by the Mueller team. I can see why you would want to change the subject. There's no telling how much a 2% income tax relief will save him. Most of the money he makes he doesn't make as regular income though. Instead of maligning the man, you should be worshiping him. He and the other top 20% of wage earners pay 84% of all the income tax in this country. That means those of us who didn't do what it takes to become rich, the other 80%, only pay 16% It really seems silly to me when people resent high wage earners. Most of them will pay more income tax in a year than we will in a lifetime. Class warfare fail. You and your ilk will never admit it, but you are grateful the rich are funding the country. Next time you see a wealthy person shake his hand and thank him.

So Rehberg v. Paulk would tend to overturn the Presidential Transition Act since a 3rd party is always involved?


If I am heading an investigation, and I have stacked my team with people who politically oppose the person I am investigating, and I know much of the population thinks I am conducting a witch hunt, I am going to try my best to keep everything above board. If I am doing my best to keep everything above board, why wouldn't I go ahead and get a warrant if I know that legally it's a close call?

Most of those dumbasses bite the hands that feed them.

Bite them hard enough, and you have... Venezuela.

All of the devices along with the server belong to the government. None of the e-mails or other communications are private. All are public property and can be viewed by anyone including all of us. Although you might have to file a lawsuit through the freedom of information act to get it and some sensitive material could be deleted. Anyone working in a government job knows, or should know this.

There may be some illegal activity in the investigation, but this isn't it.

Nah.

It's just more of the double standard BS we have been seeing since Obama took office.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...hand-subpoenaed-documents-trump-dossier/

Not true. The infrastructure,(the cable, switches, etc), the servers, the Post Office servers that hold the emails are privately owned. How long they hold the emails is variable. Emails held on P.O. servers can be and has been recovered and used in criminal prosecutions..

The government owns all of those devices of the transition team?

More grey area of the Law being exploited by Special Council. Been there done that. It’s a cats out of the bag sort of thing that can’t be put back in even if ruled by a judge to have been inappropriate.

And no being a former Marine doesn’t give you any “Leeway” to do things that are not above board.

Appears to me no one Trumps Team screwed anything up but that GSA handed over the materials to the FBI without a warrant as instructed by their internal procedures which have probably never been tested as to the legality of such an action,

Wrong, read the OP and the attached Federal Statutes.

Someone on Trumps reelection team signed a GSA document that stated that Trump had no reasonable expectation
of privacy on these documents. They were all available to anyone in the world on the GSA web site. This procedure
had been used during many federal elections. Trump and his lawyers, should no sign GSA documents they don,t read.

Trumps lawyers or his help didn,t think far enough ahead and now are complaining about the
mistake they made. All that information was in the public domain. Available to everyone. They were
told about it in writing and chose to ignore it. Ops!

Cherry picking lies. You're an idiot liberal it would appear.

Never assume a combat vet can't be "left wing."

A number of years ago, a long time left wing congressman from Florida, Givens, I think (help me out here you Florida lads), had been a paratrooper with the 101st Airborne Div., jumped in France, fought through the war, etc. As a congressman, he supported every gun confiscation bill the far left Democrats could come up with. His sworn oath to support the Constitution was utterly meaningless.

And don't forget the great Navy riverine combat vet, John Kerry, as left wing as they come.

L.W.