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I agree he was saved by faith through grace at the moment he was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of his sins. I understood you to be saying he was saved when the Holy Spirit fell on him, which was when Peter "began to speak."
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Ranger
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If Cornelius was saved when the Holy Spirit fell on him, he was saved without faith
Peter relates in Act 11:15 that he had just began to preach the gospel when the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius. We know from Romans 10:17 that faith comes by hearing the word of God. Cornelius could not have been saved by faith when the Holy Spirit fell on him and his family, because Peter had not yet preached his gospel sermon.
It is clear from several passages that the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles, without the laying on of the apostles hands (Act 8:14-18), for the purpose of convincing Peter and the six brethren of the Circumcision that the Gentiles were also acceptable to God (Act 10:28, 45; 11:15-18).
Upon hearing the Gospel sermon Cornelius and his household were baptized, just like the Jews in "the beginning," on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38-41) Why would you presume that Cornelius was saved without faith? Answer: Peter relates in Act 11:15 that he had just began to preach the gospel when the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius. We know from Romans 10:17 that faith comes by hearing the word of God. Cornelius could not have been saved by faith when the Holy Spirit fell on him and his family, because Peter had not yet preached his gospel sermon. Why would you presume to even know how much preaching is necessary before faith comes? We know that the Gospel consists, at a minimum, of the death burial and resurrection of Jesus (1 Cor 15:1-8) Since the scripture says that we are saved by grace through faith,and since Cornelius was saved,why would you think he was saved any other way than by grace through faith?
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Ranger
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If Cornelius was saved when the Holy Spirit fell on him, he was saved without faith
Peter relates in Act 11:15 that he had just began to preach the gospel when the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius. We know from Romans 10:17 that faith comes by hearing the word of God. Cornelius could not have been saved by faith when the Holy Spirit fell on him and his family, because Peter had not yet preached his gospel sermon.
It is clear from several passages that the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles, without the laying on of the apostles hands (Act 8:14-18), for the purpose of convincing Peter and the six brethren of the Circumcision that the Gentiles were also acceptable to God (Act 10:28, 45; 11:15-18).
Upon hearing the Gospel sermon Cornelius and his household were baptized, just like the Jews in "the beginning," on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38-41) Why would you presume that Cornelius was saved without faith? Why would you presume to even know how much preaching is necessary before faith comes? Since the scripture says that we are saved by grace through faith,and since Cornelius was saved,why would you think he was saved any other way than by grace through faith? Try this one. While in his mother’s womb John received the Holy Ghost. Did that take faith?
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Campfire Ranger
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Tom, faith comes from hearing the word of God, (Rom 10:17), so John would not have been able to accomplish that inside his mother's womb. Does that help?
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm not going to get into an argument back and forth about water baptism. It will never end. Let's just say that I believe that it is the baptism into Christ which saves,and that everyone who is baptized into Christ should at some time be water baptized to publicly proclaim and illustrate what has already taken place in their Spirit.
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Campfire Ranger
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So we agree on this, correct R H?
Gal 3:26-27
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Outfitter
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So we agree on this, correct R H?
Gal 3:26-27
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Absolutely,my friend!
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Campfire Ranger
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Eph 1:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
And as of this writing of Paul to the church at Ephesus, we can believe there is one baptism still today, by which we enter into Christ?
Water baptism?
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Outfitter
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Best I can tell, Jesus is subordinate to God,...
Although Jesus has inherited seemingly all... MATTHEW 11:27 "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father;..." MATTHEW 28:18
"And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."
Yet Jesus still refers to the angels (that he will return with) as still being his Fathers angels.(Matthew 16:27) and that he will prepare rooms fo the saved in his Fathers house, a home Jesus says they will be sharing with him. ...so despite Jesus having a Kingdom and right hand of God powers, he is actually still living at home with Dad..  (john 14:2-4) For anyone who has any doubts that Jesus is subordinate to the Father.... below we read that Jesus will be required to hand back the kingdom after his God/Majesty given task is completed, signalling the end of his temporary reign as King. 1 Corinthians 15: 21-28 "21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed
all dominion, authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him,
it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him,
so that God may be all in all."
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Ranger
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Starman, just as there is a hierarchy between an earthly father and son, why would it be so hard to understand there is a hierarchy between the heavenly God the Father and God the Son?
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Outfitter
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Well, some have claimed Jesus is fully God, yet to me the only one than can be fully God( in every respect)
is the one supreme Father/Majesty who has power and authority over all , including over his Son, the Holy Spirit and the Angels.
Glory, blessings, mans gift-inheritance, the angels and holy spirit, the saviour son and the home Jesus prepares for the saved,
comes from the Father not Christ.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Ranger
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What if God the Father wanted God the Son to be the center of all attention and through whom all blessing flow? Shouldn't we accept the fact that he has the authority to do whatever he wishes?
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Kahuna
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Read Acts 10, the full account of Cornelius. This is a turning point in the work of the apostles. Verse 2 says Cornelius was a devout and God fearing man before he met Peter. He was saved before he called for Peter but he needed instruction in how Christians are supposed to live. He didn't know the details about Christ. He did know about Christ, though. Go down to v32 and 33. Both verses start with 'you know that...' Cornelius knew about Christ and with his devotion was saved. He was what Paul later referred to as a baby Christian who needed milk but still, he was definitely saved and the Spirit could have come on him at any time.
However, God was holding off with the Spirit until Peter was there. This was a lesson for Peter more than for Cornelius. Peter needed instruction in how to deal with Gentile converts. He'd just experienced his vision with sheet full of unclean thing but didn't know how to apply it. Now Peter fully understood. This was God's lesson to him that Gentiles could be saved and Spirit filled just like the Jews. After this lesson, Peter's attitude and actions changed completely. He was now ready to go out among the Gentiles and to accept Paul's calling as being from the Lord.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire Outfitter
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What if God the Father wanted God the Son to be the center of all attention and through whom all blessing flow?
Shouldn't we accept the fact that he has the authority to do whatever he wishes? I haven't questioned the Fathers authority to do as he wishes, In fact that is part of the point Im stressing, that only ONE has such FULL GOD powers and authority....and every entity from Jesus down are dependent, subordinate and subject to such. There is only ONE in charge of ALL....anything short of that cannot claim to be Fully God. The Father created the universe The Father sent the Son, The Father raised the Son, The Father/Majesty put the Son at his right hand of power, The Father sends His angels, The Father sends the Holy Spirit The Father provides the blessings The Father takes back the Kingdom given to his Son, The Father then makes the Son subordinate. The Father provides the home for the saved and son Jesus to dwelll together. The Father provided Jesus with the power to perform miracles. The Fathers Will is what Jesus directs people to faithfully do. The Fathers Will is what Jesus follows. The Father holds in his hand those who are saved. 1 Corinthian 15:28 "When he has done this then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him,
so that God may be all in all.
^^ It specifically indicates that God the Father is the ONE ALL POWERFUL EVERYTHING in EVERYTHING. and that Jesus will no longer be required to wield power at the right hand of God. The FATHER is the only one such FULL GOD I am aware of... 
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Oracle
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We know nothing whatever about the thief on the cross and no, we can't theorize that he'd been baptized. We don't know where he was from or exactly what his crime was. He did say that he deserved death. We know nothing except that he repented on the cross and Jesus saved him, right then and there. If he'd been baptized, it was before his salvation so it was meaningless.
Yes, Cornelius and his family got baptized, but AFTER they were filled with the spirit. Read the order of events. Peter saw that they had received the Holy Spirit and then questioned whether it was ok to baptize gentiles. He decided that since they'd been saved and since they'd been filled with the Spirit, then baptism was ok. They were very clearly saved without baptism. Sucker was baptized by fire, i would say, or by the 3rd manner, the Holy Spirit. Why would a nonbeliever have been dunked in the river for remission of sins?
Last edited by jaguartx; 12/18/17.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Oracle
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Tom, faith comes from hearing the word of God, (Rom 10:17), so John would not have been able to accomplish that inside his mother's womb. Does that help? Can the unborn not hear?,
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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What if God the Father wanted God the Son to be the center of all attention and through whom all blessing flow?
Shouldn't we accept the fact that he has the authority to do whatever he wishes? I haven't questioned the Fathers authority to do as he wishes, In fact that is part of the point Im stressing, that only ONE has such FULL GOD powers and authority....and every entity from Jesus down are subordinate and subject to such. There is only ONE in charge of ALL. I doubt Jesus would argue with you on those points.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I'm not going to get into an argument back and forth about water baptism. It will never end. Let's just say that I believe that it is the baptism into Christ which saves,and that everyone who is baptized into Christ should at some time be water baptized to publicly proclaim and illustrate what has already taken place in their Spirit. Pretty sure ive known some who took the plunge who arent worth knocking in the head.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Tom, faith comes from hearing the word of God, (Rom 10:17), so John would not have been able to accomplish that inside his mother's womb. Does that help? Can the unborn not hear?, The Bible says that God knows all of us from creation. He knows who will accept him and who won't. He knew since creation who John would turn out to be and chose him to be the precursor to Jesus.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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If Hitler or the thief on the cross truley saw Christ for who and what He is after their crimes and became true believers and repented of tgeir sins, yes they would be saved, as was Paul who had participated in the torture and murder of Christians.
Remember the story of those who took a job in the morning after being offered a certain payment. Then, the overseer hired on hands in the afternoon and it was his right to pay them the same sum as those who had worked all day.
The boss is free to make a deal with anyone who joins His team.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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