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Well, some have claimed Jesus is fully God, yet to me the only one than can be fully God( in every respect)
is the one supreme Father/Majesty who has power and authority over all , including over his Son, the Holy Spirit and the Angels.
Glory, blessings, mans gift-inheritance, the angels and holy spirit, the saviour son and the home Jesus prepares for the saved,
comes from the Father not Christ. Jesus is equal to God, and to deny that Jesus is fully God denies Jesus altogether. There is no hope for eternal life unless you believe that Jesus is the Lord God Almighty, the I AM. John 8:24 Jesus Himself claimed to be God. That claim was what made the Pharisees so angry. In John 8:58 he said, "Before Abraham was born, I am!"
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." I John 5:7
Seventh Day Adventists (and others) do not believe that Jesus is fully God, but that He is just a part, 1/3, of God (one of 3 beings who together make up one Godhead group). They separate the Father from the Son from the Holy Spirit, and they separate the persons of the Godhead. The Biblical truth is that there is only one Being, only one God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) who is the creator, source, and sustainer of all creation. 1 John 5:7 is highly questionable. It doesn't appear in any version before about 1500. It's only found in a few Greek manuscripts written at least a millennium after the event and half of those have it as a note in the margin. Many scholars believe that it was a note added by some over zealous scribe and doesn't belong in the text. It's been dropped in many of the later versions or at least flagged as questionable. The NIV, for example, has it footnoted that it's not found in any Green manuscript prior to the 16th century. That said, I agree that Jesus is fully God, the I Am.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Well, some have claimed Jesus is fully God, yet to me the only one than can be fully God( in every respect)
is the one supreme Father/Majesty who has power and authority over all , including over his Son, the Holy Spirit and the Angels.
Glory, blessings, mans gift-inheritance, the angels and holy spirit, the saviour son and the home Jesus prepares for the saved,
comes from the Father not Christ. Jesus is equal to God, and to deny that Jesus is fully God denies Jesus altogether. There is no hope for eternal life unless you believe that Jesus is the Lord God Almighty, the I AM. John 8:24 Jesus Himself claimed to be God. That claim was what made the Pharisees so angry. In John 8:58 he said, "Before Abraham was born, I am!"
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." I John 5:7
Seventh Day Adventists (and others) do not believe that Jesus is fully God, but that He is just a part, 1/3, of God (one of 3 beings who together make up one Godhead group). They separate the Father from the Son from the Holy Spirit, and they separate the persons of the Godhead. The Biblical truth is that there is only one Being, only one God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) who is the creator, source, and sustainer of all creation. 1 John 5:7 is highly questionable. It doesn't appear in any version before about 1500. It's only found in a few Greek manuscripts written at least a millennium after the event and half of those have it as a note in the margin. Many scholars believe that it was a note added by some over zealous scribe and doesn't belong in the text. It's been dropped in many of the later versions or at least flagged as questionable. The NIV, for example, has it footnoted that it's not found in any Green manuscript prior to the 16th century. That said, I agree that Jesus is fully God, the I Am. Regardless of how humans try to define the relationship,the Father,Son and Holy Spirit are One. To be born again is to become one with the One. I find it very interesting from a philosophical view point;that the only way to become one with the One is to give up faith in self and place complete faith in the One. I also find it interesting that man,created in God's image is also three parts that are one. Man is Spirit, soul, and body. The Spirit being the eternal part of us that must be born again,that part which died with Adam's sin but which is reborn into the image of Jesus when we are saved. The soul being our mind,will,and emotions.which are to be renewed, or reprogrammed in today's language, to God's way of thinking by studying His word and spending time with Him. The body,which is simply the housing of our Spirit and soul,has all it's desires and needs and is constantly trying to take control over the Spirit for dominance. I think that if we don't understand that we are a Spirit,we have a soul,and we live in a body,we can fully understand many things the scriptures speak of.
Last edited by R_H_Clark; 12/19/17.
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. . . 1 John 5:7 is highly questionable. It doesn't appear in any version before about 1500. It's only found in a few Greek manuscripts written at least a millennium after the event and half of those have it as a note in the margin. Many scholars believe that it was a note added by some over zealous scribe and doesn't belong in the text. It's been dropped in many of the later versions or at least flagged as questionable. The NIV, for example, has it footnoted that it's not found in any Green manuscript prior to the 16th century.
That said, I agree that Jesus is fully God, the I Am. This is one of the reasons why I read and study from the King James Version. 
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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. . . 1 John 5:7 is highly questionable. It doesn't appear in any version before about 1500. It's only found in a few Greek manuscripts written at least a millennium after the event and half of those have it as a note in the margin. Many scholars believe that it was a note added by some over zealous scribe and doesn't belong in the text. It's been dropped in many of the later versions or at least flagged as questionable. The NIV, for example, has it footnoted that it's not found in any Green manuscript prior to the 16th century.
That said, I agree that Jesus is fully God, the I Am. This is one of the reasons why I read and study from the King James Version. I like the KJV and scholars say it is very accurate but it is not without it's faults,so I use it along with others. I also like the Amplified bible and I enjoy word studies.
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Campfire Kahuna
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. . . 1 John 5:7 is highly questionable. It doesn't appear in any version before about 1500. It's only found in a few Greek manuscripts written at least a millennium after the event and half of those have it as a note in the margin. Many scholars believe that it was a note added by some over zealous scribe and doesn't belong in the text. It's been dropped in many of the later versions or at least flagged as questionable. The NIV, for example, has it footnoted that it's not found in any Green manuscript prior to the 16th century.
That said, I agree that Jesus is fully God, the I Am. This is one of the reasons why I read and study from the King James Version. 1 John 5:7-8 is in my KJV without a note that it's a problem.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire Oracle
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. . . 1 John 5:7 is highly questionable. It doesn't appear in any version before about 1500. It's only found in a few Greek manuscripts written at least a millennium after the event and half of those have it as a note in the margin. Many scholars believe that it was a note added by some over zealous scribe and doesn't belong in the text. It's been dropped in many of the later versions or at least flagged as questionable. The NIV, for example, has it footnoted that it's not found in any Green manuscript prior to the 16th century.
That said, I agree that Jesus is fully God, the I Am. This is one of the reasons why I read and study from the King James Version. I like the KJV and scholars say it is very accurate but it is not without it's faults,so I use it along with others. I also like the Amplified bible and I enjoy word studies. Iirc, the KJV reports commandments as being thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not lie. He commanded his people in fact, to kill and he is the same yest, today and tomorrow. I think He said thou shall not committ murder and to not bear false witness against a neighbor, actually.
Last edited by jaguartx; 12/19/17.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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[quote=Starman]
The Father created the universe
You might want to re-think who you say created the Universe. Here's 2 verses that tell us that Jesus is the Creator.
John 1:1-3 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the
beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Col 1:16 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or
dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. Jesus was made the sacrificial lamb, - will be made the appointed final judge - and sits at the right hand of the Majesty. and as we note also involved in creating .but all that is only possible through the will and works of the Father who accomplishes through the Son. Jesus takes no self credit for all the works the Father accomplishes through the Son, scripture shows that Jesus repeatedly credits the Father. So although Jesus subordinately fulfils numerous rolls as appointed by the Father, the works are not actually his own.
As fully man, he prayed as a man, but at the same time was He fully God, (who was incapable of sinning btw).
As a man He was totally dependent of the Father, He was limited to His Fathers will in His time on earth.
Even as the risen Son, Jesus still remains dependent on the Father and still dutifully remains in service to his Fathers will.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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John 14:8-10
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Kahuna
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. . . 1 John 5:7 is highly questionable. It doesn't appear in any version before about 1500. It's only found in a few Greek manuscripts written at least a millennium after the event and half of those have it as a note in the margin. Many scholars believe that it was a note added by some over zealous scribe and doesn't belong in the text. It's been dropped in many of the later versions or at least flagged as questionable. The NIV, for example, has it footnoted that it's not found in any Green manuscript prior to the 16th century.
That said, I agree that Jesus is fully God, the I Am. This is one of the reasons why I read and study from the King James Version. I like the KJV and scholars say it is very accurate but it is not without it's faults,so I use it along with others. I also like the Amplified bible and I enjoy word studies. Iirc, the KJV reports commandments as being thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not lie. He commanded his people in fact, to kill and he is the same yest, today and tomorrow. I think He said thou shall not commit murder and to not bear false witness against a neighbor, actually. I don't think that bearing false witness is just lying. While lying is a sin, the commandment is more specific. We see a number of times in the Bible where someone purposely lied to get someone else in trouble. For example, the Jews found men to lie at Jesus' trial saying he'd done things that he hadn't done. It's giving false testimony in front of a court of some kind. The KJV says don't bear false witness. Other versions say things like "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbour.", and "Do not testify falsely against your neighbor."
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Jesus is equal to God, and to deny that Jesus is fully God denies Jesus altogether. ....
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
I John 5:7
Though they be one, they are not all necessarily equal. How can subordinates be equal to the no compromise full-executive power and authority Majesty Father who commands them? Of the three, one is distinctly supreme.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Regular
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Jesus is equal to God, and to deny that Jesus is fully God denies Jesus altogether. ....
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
I John 5:7
Though they be one, they are not all necessarily equal. How can subordinates be equal to the no compromise full-executive power and authority Majesty Father who commands them? Of the three, one is distinctly supreme. Ellen White would certainly agree with you.
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Campfire Oracle
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I agree, RC. Im saying a lie may not necessarily be a sin, but bearing false witness against someone is. I wondered about this as a kid. At times dad would be on an oil rig job and mom would be called in to the hospital for a emergency as a surgical RN. I would be left at home as a big kid to watch over 5 siblings. I would wonder if intruders were to break in and the kids scattered and hid and if i were asked if anyone else was in the house, i would sin by lying when i answered no, providing they got past my shotgun.  If i thought the Lord told me not to kill, i wouldnt be wringing a chickens neck. Id be forced to eat road killed deer.
Last edited by jaguartx; 12/19/17.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Jesus is equal to God, and to deny that Jesus is fully God denies Jesus altogether. ....
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
I John 5:7
Though they be one, they are not all necessarily equal. How can subordinates be equal to the no compromise full-executive power and authority Majesty Father who commands them? Of the three, one is distinctly supreme. Ellen White would certainly agree with you. In the beginning there was the Word (the Word is Jesus)....Jesus is God. God and Jesus are one.
Last edited by jaguartx; 12/19/17.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Kahuna
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Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He was in the burning bush and that's what he told Moses.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Jesus is equal to God, and to deny that Jesus is fully God denies Jesus altogether. ....
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
I John 5:7
Though they be one, they are not all necessarily equal. How can subordinates be equal to the no compromise full-executive power and authority Majesty Father who commands them? Of the three, one is distinctly supreme. Ellen White would certainly agree with you. In the beginning there was the Word (the Word is Jesus)....Jesus is God. God and Jesus are one. This!
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Jesus is equal to God, and to deny that Jesus is fully God denies Jesus altogether. ....
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
I John 5:7
Though they be one, they are not all necessarily equal. How can subordinates be equal to the no compromise full-executive power and authority Majesty Father who commands them? Of the three, one is distinctly supreme. Ellen White would certainly agree with you. In the beginning there was the Word (the Word is Jesus)....Jesus is God. God and Jesus are one. This! Nice assertion without evidence.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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In the beginning there was the Word (the Word is Jesus)....Jesus is God. God and Jesus are one.
This! Nice assertion without evidence. [/quote] Antelope, The Bible is quite sufficient evidence, if you approach it without bias and with an open-mind. It is the best selling book in history for reason. I realize that you are a skeptic, and I respect that. Also, I appreciate your respect to others on this thread-I'm not much of an apologist, or skilled in debate-but I hope you will be respectful with me just the same.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire 'Bwana
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In the beginning there was the Word (the Word is Jesus)....Jesus is God. God and Jesus are one.
This! Nice assertion without evidence. Antelope, The Bible is quite sufficient evidence, if you approach it without bias and with an open-mind. It is the best selling book in history for reason. I realize that you are a skeptic, and I respect that. Also, I appreciate your respect to others on this thread-I'm not much of an apologist, or skilled in debate-but I hope you will be respectful with me just the same.[/quote] 340boy, I'd be happy to join you in a civil debate. Perhaps this is where you and I differ, I will not accept a source making extraordinary claims just on the word of the writer. I'm especially skeptical of anonymous sources. One of the great difficulties of the texts we know as the 4 Gospels is they are all anonymous. They were NOT written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and we have no signed original copies (the preceding quote of course being from John, the last, and most different of the Gospels) . The oldest actual fragment we have of any gosphel (Papyrus P52) is likely dated to the 3rd century, and no complete manuscripts dated before the 4th century. As a result, there's significant room for doubt, especially when you consider the extraordinary nature of the claims being made.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Antelope,
I am going to do some research on this-on your assertions concerning the authorship of the Gospels and get back with you.
Best,
Tim
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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