Home Forums Birds & Dogs Waterfowl Was quite inspired by your post Cheesy, so tell me..

What are you folks running for shotguns and ammo when chasing ducks and geese..?

When I was a teen I had the opportunity to trap a particular beaver flat in part of northern New York's flyway. I usually carried my Ithaca 37 which had a 2 3/4" chamber and a 20" slug barrel. That flat had a "finger" of flooded alders about 100yds long and about 40 yards wide. The water both at the dam and in the midded of the flooded alders was the same depth, about 4'. There was pockets of open water there of about 20'x20' where the ducks would use as a landing zone. The trick was to wedge yourself in a cluster of alders and wait. The only ones I could not reach when hunting that area were either out of sight, or just way to high above me due to that slug barrel.

I don't have a suitable "mud and blood" shotgun and would like to get one...not a safe queen, just a good robust piece of equipment.

Thank you

get an older 12 ga Wingmaster, 3 inch if you want, and never look back! either new enough to have a steel compatible barrel, or add a Carlson barrel.

Yes, ...on the Used 870, 12Gauge 3"Chamber/ Steel approved, removable Choke (Mod) .

Do like the Cheap $ Steel, ...am partial to the KentFasteel, 2's or 4's

Price wise, yes the good ole 870
I started with an 870, decided I wanted a semiautomatic so I got a Remington sportsman 12 (1100 not as fancy), eventually got sick of not having a 3” chamber (didn’t realize in my younger days I could shoot 3” steel), got a 11/87 supermagnum, eventually got sick of the weight and short 23” barrel (though I love short barrels) and now have a benelli sbe3 that I will be using for the first time this year for waterfowl
We’re gonna get crazy into waterfowl here right after Christmas.

You guys are in agreement about the Remingtons.

What maked the "older Wingmaster" preferable over todays 870, like, what qualities do I look for in the older ones that is lacking in the new stuff.



Please keep 'em coming, I'm trying to learn something here about waterfowl guns.

Thanks All.!

Beretta Xtrema 2, HEVI-Shot, and a Labrador Retriever.

All mine are with a Beretta 391. I’ve always been of the belief that walnut didn’t scare me to hunt with in inclement weather. I feel bad now and am in the market for a synthetic stocked shotgun. Not sure what I’ll end up with yet.

Are you guys running the same load for both ducks and geese..?

And when you "paper pattern" your shot string what distances should I be getting a good pattern when experimenting with chokes..?

Do you guys shoot clays for practice, and if so, do you practice with a trap load, or do you run your waterfowl load.?

And what about the 20ga... say with a dose of heavy shot or the like..does it carry enough of a payload to be as effective as the 12ga.?

currently drive a M2/ BB for Teal to Geese.

20 can be a Sleeper, 35 YRDS is just that.....

The 20 being a "sleeper" means its effective..?

A couple of things, for me. An older gun that is a little roughed up is one you will grab more often for a rigorous hunt. Older guns usually have better fit and finish, more hands-on craftsmanship. I don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but I would not have a newer 870 Express given to me, vs a couple of older 870 Wingmasters that I now have. Problem with a new Wingmaster, they cost too much for me.

Well that escalated quickly.

Wife bought me a Beretta A300 for Christmas. Problem resolved.

I started out with a Remington Model 10 with #4 shot for ducks but that was back in the days of lead shot and geese were so uncommon that shooting one got your picture hung on the wall of the local sporting goods store at least and often in the local paper.

When steel shot came around, I picked up a Remington 870 and used that for a few years. Next came a S&W Super 12, Mossberg 5500 MK II, Ithaca Mag-10, Rem 11-87, Browning Citori, Berreta 390/391, Winchester SX-2, and Browning Gold, or at least those are the ones I've used at least one season, there are other guns I used a time or two and moved on. Except for the Ithaca all listed are 12 ga though I have also used everything from 28 ga on up at one time or another. I currently shoot the Gold or 391 when hunting fields and the Citori over water.

A couple of the guns were chambered for 3.5" shells but I have not had a need for them. I've shot probably 3 boxes of the longer shells in the 30 years they have been around and I could have done just as well with 3" shells. I don't care for the added recoil and especially expense of the longer shells.

I use steel pretty much exclusively in the 12 ga and 10 ga. I have found it will kill birds as far as I am willing to shoot and I don't consider 50 yards or a bit more to be too far in places. The standard loads at 1375-1450 fps work as well as the hyper velocity stuff and have none of the negatives. I have used the other nontoxic so but feel they are best used in more specialized areas such as smaller bores or older guns not rated for steel shot. Learning to shoot well will put more birds in the bag than the type of shot. If you can't hit the bird, can't consistently center the bird in the pattern and only hit it with the fringe, or can't regularly hit the bird in the front half of the body and not the butt, you won't kill many no matter what is used.

As for shot size, steel 2 is my go to for ducks as I shoot mainly mallards with an occasional diver. If hunting fields I may start with #3 as the ducks can be very, very close and a wing tipped duck has a hard time escaping the dog by diving into the dirt. For geese I use mainly BB and BBB as I see mostly the larger Canada geese but when chasing snows I'll drop down to #1 and BB as my main loads.

At one time I was pretty serious about ducks but their numbers dropped around here and my interest fell off. I had 7 dozen+ puddler dekes and 20+ dozen divers but am down to half that now and it's been a decade since I used my own water set up. Geese grew in numbers at the same time ducks declined and I switched to them. I got serious into hunting them and expanded to chasing snows too. A few years later I took up guiding to boot. I have several hundred Canada decoys now though I seldom use more than 10 dozen as this is sufficient for local flocks. I can set out a spread of a couple thousand snows though many of those are rags and windsocks. It's been 3-4 years since I seriously chased snows but that will change next year as a couple buddies and I are heading back to Quill Lake for a reunion.

Unless you plan on becoming an avid shotgun hunter. Go down to big box store. Buy whatever brand named Pump 12ga with 28" barrel they sell. Remington -Winchester-Mossberg-Browning. Then buy a box of 3" BB and a Box of 3" #2. Pattern them out of whatever choke/chokes the gun comes with. When you see a combo that looks pretty good. Buy more shells then go hunting.

Thank you for seeing, and answering that question for me.

Congrats Cheesy.! Thats pretty nice of her. Enjoy.!

Woodmaster,

Thank you for that great write up and for posting, excellent information.

Guys, when looking at the Wingmaster, what serial# should be the high in determining that is of early quality.?

I have done a bit of shotgunning, I run an old Win 97 for most game, but 2 3/4" is all she'll handle.
For Turkey, I have a light weight H&R Topper Deluxe.

We lost our entire belongs 2 years ago making a move, our moving trailer was stolen one night as we slept in a hotel, so most of my firearms were lost.
Trying to start over again, thus all the questions.

Not sure on the S/Ns, but an 870 made in the 70s will not have a steel - friendly barrel. Fortunately, the 870 barrels interchange well. I personally like guns from the 50s and 60s, even back to the 1940s.

Kid,
Thank you very much.

Saw one on Gunbroker built in the 60's...

always wanted a 1956 gun, same year model as me! I think 870s came out in early 50s. would love to own a Model 31 which preceded the 870. I already have a Model 17 which were only made in 20 gauge, mine is a 4 digit S/N so maybe a 1923 model.

Note the PM

Got it thank you.

Anything marked "Wingmaster" is what to look for as they are finished to a greater degree than the Express. The classic Wingmaster will also have a gloss finished walnut stock rather than some non-descript hardwood as well as a glossy blue finish on the metal. The steels used in the 870 are steel safe with all chokes of Modified or more open. A Full choke can be opened for a reasonable cost or a replacement barrel can be bought for not much more.

The Wingmaster may be a "better" gun due to finish but an Express is just as functional. The grittiness upon working the action smooths out with use and the matte finish is less likely to cause unwanted reflections. I've owned and used Expresses as well as Wingmasters and can't recommend one over the other. I would go with a used Wingmaster over a new Express as the used gun could go for considerably less depending on condition and price is more a factor to me.

I would say that about 10 birds die around here each fall out of 870 Expresses compared to one for everything else (not my family but everybody and their brother uses one).

If you used to use an Ithaca pump, then go find yourself another one. So long as it has a "Roto-Forged" barrel above 855,000 serial number, then it will be fine for steel shot.

Either get an ImpCyl or Modified.

Use Federal WingShok red box from Rogers Sporting Goods, or Federal Blue Box from anywhere. Ithacas like them.

#2 steel for all ducks
#BB for all geese

We put a bunch of ducks in the bag this year with the Ithacas. Still the easiest-to-use pump ever made.

My Ithaca 37 went out with the robbery...sucks.

But I'd be thrilled with another..mine was 2 3/4"... like to get one for 3"

They made 3" Ithaca 37 at Ithaca and King's Ferry and Sandusky.

All of the Ithaca 87 models were 3" also.

For any of the non-Ohio guns, if the serial number begins with the letters "MAG" then it shoots 3" shells. That applies to both 12 and 20 gauges.

One thing to be aware of, is that the 3" guns add a good half pound to the overall weight. They go from a nimble upland weapon to a typical "all-around" pump. But they sure lose that mojo that makes them feel special.

We've gone back to the shorter receivers for the better balance except when absolutely necessary for 3", which usually means geese around here.

That begs the question, is 3" needed for most Waterfowling or could a fellow do just fine with a 2 3/4" ?

We find that we do fine with 2.75" but it is difficult to find good steel in that size anymore.

Kent Faststeel has some pretty good loads at that length.

Do you guys find it worth it to roll your own ?

Not worth it for steel, IMO.

But if you want to get into Tungsten Super Shot, then yes roll your own.

Gotcha.!

Thanks.

I’ll contradict all the 870 talk. Most of your wing masters will be 2 3/4”. By time you buy a remchoke barrel and plastic stock you will have spent more than a Beneli Nova costs.
A nova is built better, of better materials, will take 3 1/2” shells, comes in camo, has a much better recoil pad, and stock fit shims. Break down and assembly is the same as the 870.

Yes, it’s clunky feeling compared to a nice light and nimble Wingmaster.

But it suffers from the benelli death click.

Benelli sbe2, 3 or 3.5 inch #2 for late season, 3s for early

Lots of love for the Benellis I see..

I generally use 3" shells for all my waterfowl use but that is mainly due to the price break when I buy in quantity. The shorter shells are only a dollar a box less and I can beat that buying in quantity after he season ends. There may be some shorter shells around then but they are picked over and not what I want. 3" shells are still plentiful and in good selection. I have over a flat of reloaded short shells left from cleaning up my reloading components. These are 1 oz of #3 shot which were my favorite duck loads for field shooting. This is a somewhat specialized load which is why I still have a number of them left.

I used to reload steel shells but no longer. Steel is considerably less tolerant than lead and one needs to be exact or problems arise. For safest results one should hand weigh every powder and shot charge as the powder used at the time (Alliant Steel) is very bulky and does not meter well. Kind of the same goes for the shot, too heavy and pressures can rise drastically.

This is in addition to the realatively high cost of steel shot, higher cost of the specialty wads used for steel shot, and somewhat higher cost of powder. The large quantities used by factories allow them to load at a much lower cost. The differential is not worth the bother in my book. When I started loading 25 years ago it made sense as factory steel loads were rather poor but they soon caught up to what could be done at home.

I don't reload much of the other non-toxics as I use so little of them. I haven't seen a need for them in the 12 and 10 ga but in the smaller bores it is pretty much mandatory. For them buying a box now and then as I find decent pricing has been more economical. Other than bismuth, most of the other non-toxics use more expensive steel shot wads along with the higher price shot. I would have to weigh out the shot charge as with steel which is not something I wish to bother with.

IMO benelli’s are the king of waterfowl hunting.

I used to duck hunt quite a bit and haven't in the last 8 years or so. Something I intend to remedy in the next year. I also miss being part of the DU committee. Had a lot of fun with that in years past.

Winchester Super X2 shooting 3 inch Kent Faststeel in BB IIRC. I bought a case of 3.5's for snows one year, lit off 6 of those as fast as I can pull the trigger and never did another. I don't need 3.5, probably don't need 3 inch but it works pretty good.

That Winchester has been abused. Used mostly for ducks, coyote, geese and the occasional rabbit. Always in the water, little field hunting. I also ran quite a bit of clays through it - realistically, it has 5-6000 rounds through it and I can't remember a single hiccup. Certainly never put parts into it at all.

As for practice - back then I was shooting 10,000+ rounds of 12, and another 5-8000 rounds combined of 20,28,410 in sporting clays a summer. I didn't practice specifically for duck hunting but the clay work helped. I had friends that did minimal to little practice would get pissed. We'd be hunting blue bills - I'd fire twice and collect my limit. They'd be a box and a half through and have nothing. I'm a firm believer in some sort of practice with a repeatable move, mount and shoot type of habit. It doesn't matter what you're shooting for a shell IMO for practice as people don't miss by inches, they miss by feet IME.

Like Tom264 said "IMO benelli’s are the king of waterfowl hunting"
Second would be a Beretta A400 extreme.

Best modern day Fowl rigs modern day

Pump probably the Nova

Inertia SBEII as the III is having some issues with POI

Gas Would say Berretta

Have run several thousand rounds through my SBEII and have never had an issue, had the H&K before hand as well as the SBEI both of those had a little issue cycling low cost dove loads but after switching to higher dram charges that went away as well.

People think the sbe3 is having poi issues but maybe it’s the way I shoot, I’m killing just about everything I shoot at.
My 11/87 I was 50/50, when I patterned my sbe3 it hit ever so slightly high but well within reason, left/right it was dead center.
I’m happy with it.
With my sbe3 I’m more like 90/10

Thats good to hear Tom! Have had two buddies very unhappy with one foot high POI versus other rigs. I need to shoot one, NOT