Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire More Questions For Bible Scholars?

Why do you commit slander?

Was it an intentionally choice, or are you just ignorant?

Just because an atheist sees no good evidence for your god, that doesn't mean they do not believe in, nor live by any higher set of values.

I disagree. That is religious teaching. 358wsm expressed it perfectly.

Revelation shows two resurrections, separated by 1000 yrs.

The 1st resurrection involves a number of thrones seating those with authority to judge the dead that come to life
and ordained to rule with Christ for 1000 yrs. (rev 20:4-6)

4 "I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls......
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but
they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years."

Only thing muddy is your heart, and brain. Some day we'll see who's right, won't we? As intellectually dishonest as you are, I'm sure you won't answer that.

Revelation 20:11-15King James Version (KJV)

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


The small and the great are there: the king stands among slaves; rich with poor; religious zealots with atheists. No doubt all religions are represented: Protestants, Catholics, Hindus, Muslims, etc.

Intellectually dishonest?

Really?

JG,

I expected a higher level of discourse from you.

As for my heart, where have I ever wished ill upon another member of this forum?

Of course, if you wish to issue an apology and demonstrate you are the Texas Gentleman as I expect, I'll gladly accept.

AS.

I don’t see the “ intellectual dishonesty” in any of the posts A S has made on this thread. In fact, in several years worth of arguments with him I’ve found him to be very consistent in his beliefs.

Thank you Gene, I greatly appreciate the compliment.

We've had some good debates over the years. It's taken me a while to gain a good grasp of your position, but now that I seem to understand it, I can say the same for you. I appreciate the fact you are open to questions around the details supporting your core believes, and the implications of some of those details.

Antelope Sniper
I don't know that dishonest is the best word but look at it like this. You say we are telling you a fairy tale,yet even in "our fairy tail" you insist on changing the script to read the way you want it to read,even though it's our fairy tale. Shouldn't you be able to judge our fairy tale based on the way we tell it,rather than on the way you insist that it reads?

The actions of humans is often blamed on the devil..you know, "the devil made me do it.."
Ah...no, he didn't. Human nature made you choose to do it.

Don't ever confuse the evil of human nature of that of the devil. We don't need him in order to be scum bags, we are WELL capable of that on our own.

For example, a 4 year old kid throws a rock. It goes throughthe garage window and lands on mom's car hood. Now the mom asks, "did you throw that stone babe.?" The child responds, " No momma...i didnt throw the stone.."
Nobody had to teach that child to lie...it was already a part of it's nature.

Same for us. Satan has nothing to do with the evil nature we carry within. He ain't our scape goat.


[/quote]

There are those that help him push his agenda. God is not just. God is a liar. God is cruel. There is no Christ. .....

RH,

Critical thinking involves delving deeper into ideas than the surface story. If you care about truth, when presented with a set of beliefs, it's important to understand the implications of the beliefs and the history behind them. A contra example could be Marxism. It's a very seductive set of idea's but once you dig under the hood, they don't hold up to scrutiny.

In general the same process applies in science. Alleged discoveries are published in peer review journals, and results need to be independently replicated by other research teams in order to be accepts. Contrast that with the discussion we see here regarding Judgement, and who gets judged, how many times, and by whom? I see no agreement on this subject that would meet any reasonable level of scrutiny.

If your story truly came from the all knowing, all powerful all kind creator of the universe, it should be able to withstand any level of scrutiny. Instead, you take the position that only believers should be allowed to judge. If your position was truly unassailable you wouldn't consider my application of critical thinking to your beliefs "dishonest".

So, AS, what is it that drives you to try and discredit every believer who posts? Is it your great desire for the truth to be known? Why would it be that? You are dying as we speak and in the blink of historys eye you will be dust. Right? Of what value is truth to dust?

So, you will go to your grave knowing you made it harder for those who need the crutch of belief to give them less fear of death? Does it give you joy to make many fear death more than they would if they believed? How does that benefit you? Why do you spend so many hours of your life doing it and all for naught?

Why not read a good book rather than try to prove Christians wrong. Are you pissed at God for some reason obscure to us? Did you once believe and have a relative pass that you prayed for?

Im not going to spend my energy trying to make a Bhuddist believe he is going to turn to fertilizer when he dies. Do you? Why not?

You dont because you are driven by an internal force you seemingly cant resist. You cant stand letting people go peacefully into that good night. You are driven to try and torment them by denying Him. Why?

Because you are His enemy. You accuse and condem because you hate Him. If there werent a Him you would have nothing to hate or deny and you would use your short time here more enjoyably.

You prove there is a Satan and by doing so you prove there is the one who created him.

May God bless you as your needs may be.

Scripture shows Jesus engaged in a reasoned-rational mind defence of the faith using critical thinking as one of his primary tools.
Its a mental approach that everyone in good sense could benefit from should they decide to apply it throughout their life.

rational (def.)
based on or in accordance with reason or logic.

synonyms:
logical, reasoned, well reasoned, sensible, reasonable, descriminating, cogent, coherent, intelligent, wise, judicious, sagacious,
astute, shrewd, perceptive, enlightened, clear-eyed, clear-sighted, commonsensical, common-sense, well advised, well grounded,
sound, sober, prudent, circumspect, lucid, balanced, coherent, sane, in one's right mind, able to think/reason clearly, of sound mind
, in possession of all one's faculties;

antonyms:
illogical, insane

I'm not so sure I can agree.

Around my house, breaking a commandment was a serious thing. Even at 4, bearing false witness was enough to bring out the whole family. I can remember having to confess my act openly and being required to kneal down and pray to God for forgiveness. James 2 got read to me. It didn't take too long for me to realize lying was not a good course of action around my house.

We did not talk much about Satan in our household. I grew up a Methodist attending a Presbyterian church. Neither one talked much about Satan. I did not therefore have to worry to much about him. It was my own corrupt nature I had to worry about as a kid.

When I got older and started traveling about, I became acquainted more with how Satan was viewed by others. Satan lives in all places in the human heart where you let him. You let him in whenever you try to keep God out. He has all the power you wish to give him. He is as real as anything else in this world, feeding off those things in your life you will not repent. I could eventually see why my family had been so worried about the minor acts of mischief I had committed.

Satan is not a scapegoat. The fact that one denomination sees him one way versus another is largely irrelevant. For one denomination, Hell is a lake of fire. For another it is simply an eternal state of separation from God. Satan can be a devil, a man in a grey suit, or just a bad influence. It is all the same thing.

The question was why does God keep Satan around? The simple fact is that we ourselves keep him around. Can we kill him? Probably not in our own lifetime. As long as we are corrupt corporeal human beings, we'll be subject to sin. The best we can do is to honestly repent and try to do our best.

I often ask, "Have you hugged Satan today?"

I don't mean that in a pro-Satan way. I've met a few Satanists. In fact that line comes from a bumper sticker that was on one of they're cars. The few Satanists I've met were miserable people who were trying to convince themselves they were happy. Most could have done better in some sort of 12-step program or some behavioral therapy. No, I'm asking that as one Christian to another. Even if you just took the last piece of cinnimon cake before offering it to someone else, you've probably hugged Satan in some way or other. The point is not whether God thinks you've stolen. The point is YOU thought you snatched that last piece. You felt good about doing it too. There. You've managed to hug Satan. Do you still feel so smug?

I'm not trying to be judgemental here. I happy you got the last piece. The point is YOU felt yourself being tempted. You gave into it, and YOU are now feeling a bit guilty, but you don't want to actually confess it to God. You start making up excuses, you thing the shaman is being silly.

No, that was Satan sending a $1 transaction through your spiritual credit card to see if it goes through. Once he gets confirmation, he's going to start running up the charges. If you don't start watching the bill, you're going to be paying for a new set of tires for Satan.

Somewhere, out there, an unrepentent camper is now finding it hard to swallow his last bite of cake. To him, I simply refer to John 5:14.


One last quick story and then I'll depart:

My Mom's 88. She's in a home. I visit her every day. We've been having the same conversation in one way or the other since I was in college.

"So what did you do last night?" she'll ask.

"I went to bed early and contemplated my sins," I'll reply.

"Did you have a lot to repent?" she asks.

"No," I reply, "No more so than usual. Besides who said anything about repenting? I just contemplated them. Some I still savor."

"You're silly, but I love you."

biggest scam in human history.

Is it? I'm not so sure. Let's postulate for a moment that:

a) My presentation of Satan is somehow correct
b) There is neither God nor Satan

You've got 10 simple rules (the Commandments) that are a reasonable code of behavior for humans. You've got a mechanism for self-regulating your transgressions against those rules, and a method for sloughing off the shame that accumulates from those transgressions. If you add in the Golden Rule, and sprinkling of "Love the children." and a little this and that, you've got a pretty darn good way for a population of sentients on a small planet to govern themselves and lead well-regulated and fulfilling lives. I don't see that as a scam, whether you're an atheist or not.

Of course, I do believe in God. I wholeheartedly believe in the Apostle's Creed, and I can accept Satan or at least a Satanic presence in my life. I've also been given the means to keep it at bay. If I follow a few simple rules and seek forgiveness for those I transgress and honestly try to do better, I'm guaranteed Eternal Life.

On the other hand, if I turn away from God, let Satan rule me and learn to fear death, I can be darn well sure that I'll die anyway and end up worm food, with nothing but a hodge-podge of situational life choices that amount to nothing. My progeny will be equally adrift spritually, and my life will have meant nothing.

I don't like Golf. Fact is, I despise it. However, I do believe it has things right in many respects:

17 basic rules.
The idea is not to see how many you can break, but how closely you can follow not only the letter but the intent of each rule and the game as a whole.
Every man plays the game competing only with himself, and to get off the last green with the least number of strokes.
When you get off the course, you can retire to the clubhouse. There you can play Gin Rummy and drink with your friends until something better turns up.

I don't see that as a bad way of going about things.

Friend Clark, I count you as one who sincerely holds certain beliefs and presents them honestly, just like Antelope Sniper. You place yourself at a distinct disadvantage when you insist on using scripture in your debates with him. And, to what purpose?

It is said “ The Bible is for believers” and I believe that to be true.You and I can discuss our different viewpoints on certain passages of scripture and the discussion might add to our collective understanding. A.S. Is using hyperbole when he uses “fairy tale” to describe the gospel and proven scientific principles will always carry the day when comparing the two.

I’ve posted this quote from the Doctor considered the Dean of Psychology at the close of his lecture series “ Varieties of Religious Experiences”....... “All the books ever written cannot begin to explain what happens in the mind of a man who meets his Creator for the first time”. No one has ever been inclined to debate it....... maybe because it is a very large book.... but, after all, aren’t we talking about an experience when we discuss Christianity? We should be.

I am offered a choice when considering scripture. I can believe that Jesus intended to found “ churches” like we see today and that the foundation of those churches was to be a man, Peter, or the statement of faith made by that man.

Or, I can choose, after considering the same scriptures offered in support of that position, that Jesus was announcing that He was basing His ministry on the ability of The Father to reveal Jesus to each seeker, just as He did with Peter and John the Baptist earlier.

The second position is far superior as far as I’m concerned because it allows Jesus to keep His promises personally and, more importantly, it matches my experience and the experience of many of my friends.

Antelope Sniper can’t debate me on an experience he has never had anymore than I can debate him about scientific experiments I’ve not performed.

So........ we could talk about guns.😀

after having grown up in a church that ttaught/preached that the debil had horns, probably was red all over, carried a scepter thingy, and had a sharp pointed tail, i've changed my thinking an iota.

i now believe the devil is a human derived personification of evil, bad things, the uncouth. bad things happen to everyone, both the good, the bad, and the ugly. the bad things are lumped into the responsibility of the personalized devil, with a few exceptions that god wills, allows, even encourages. it's more simple that way, and it allows lines of demarcation to remain more clear, open, and easily understood.

but, we imagine all kinds of things, more or less....the man in the moon, green cheese on the moon, santa claus, halloween thingys. it's the power of the human consciousness to take an anomaly of facts, figures, and imagination and create something from it, then name that something. the name of the negative side is often referred to as the debil. and that's just my take, a layman that use to believe the debil had horns.

Alright I have a question. Adam and Eve had two sons, they took wife's, who and where did their come from.

The Bible is life's user manual, for everyone. Your perception of scripture is very......interesting. Every time I ask AS "some day we'll see whoi's right, won't we'/ he can't even admit that That is intellectually dishonest IMO I have to feel pity for such an empty person.