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The same reason Superman didn't just kill ZOG.
CAUSE ITS NOT REAL...

It's as real as you allow it to be. Choose wisely.

Mr. R H Clark:Thanks for your reply and your interest in my edification. This thanks is sincere and no sarcasm is intended. You are right, I did not quote the entirety of Jesus' words as translated into the KJV. Specifically "until all be fulfilled" which I don't believe will happen until he returns. Heaven and earth certainly haven't passed away although it could happen any time with earth as we know it. I know John and Jesus were certainly concerned with repentance,and obedience to the law especially to the spirit of the law. No less than Jesus' brother James seems to have written in opposition to Paul. He very clearly states that faith without works is dead. I understand that salvation is an unearned gift, but that doesn't allow one to join up a Baptist (or whatever) church, profess belief in Jesus and then go on and live an ungodly self centered life. I would think and hope that at judgement you are expected to show "fruits meet for repentance". Giving Paul his due I will admit that in Acts 26:20 he is reported to have said "that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance". Paul tells a lot that is true but he runs off the rails so much with his doctrine and vindictive judgementalism, not to mention his support of government, that I can't believe he is credible. Paul runs around in circles while Jesus is straight forward and easy for me to understand. I do believe that Jesus is exactly who he said he is and even though I am not a wise man I will continue to seek him. I am only a 1971 graduate of a hillbilly high school but reading comprehension is a gift the Lord gave me.

Mr. Hastings
I greatly appreciate the tone of your reply. Please forgive me if I seemed in any way to be haughty. That was not my intention. It is possible that I become defensive sometimes.

I do honestly believe that if we could sit down and talk long enough you would understand and see from scripture my view. Until then,I will ask you to consider doing this; Rather than rejecting some scripture because it seems to you that it contradicts scripture that you hold as more important, study it,even to original languages,until instead of contradicting itself,it reinforces itself and gives even fuller understanding.

For instance,James is not at all contradicting Paul. They are together trying to bring you into a fuller understanding. Salvation is by faith alone,but it is nearly deceptive to say faith alone because real faith is alive and alive faith is never alone. I agree with you that you can't just say the words that you accept Jesus and then go your own way and expect salvation. It is not however because good works are needed to add to your words. It is because in such a case no inner transformation took place.There was no heart change,no union with the Spirit of the Lord. Works added to those words will not cause that transformation or union. However when that transformation takes place,works are the natural outcome,just as a child would be the natural outcome of a husband and wife union. We wouldn't say however that a couple's marriage was invalid without the child. In the same manner we shouldn't say that a marriage to the lord is invalid without works. Sometimes it takes time,and the renewing of the mind until works are produced.

The problem with the works mentality then becomes that people start judging their union with Christ by their works. What would happen to a husband and wife if they started judging their marriage based on how many children they produced,and the quality of those children. The marriage would stop being about the intimacy of the husband and wife and them working together in all things,and would only be about the children. Just so a works minded Christian will soon forget about the Lord and become totally immersed in the works of the Lord. remember the Lord saying to those who had done many mighty works in his name,that he never knew them.

I believe from scripture that Jesus fulfilled every requirement of the law and the OT. I can show you several references from scripture that the law has indeed passed away. That does not by any means however make Christians lawless. That is a false message preached to scare Christians away from Grace. The law is gone but we have much better. We have the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us. He can help and guide in many ways that the law could not. The reason I know I'm going to Heaven isn't because I strive to be a good man and not sin. I know I'm going to Heaven because I put all my trust in Jesus for my salvation. I strive to be a good man and not sin because of my trust in Jesus and because of my relationship with him. Even when I'm not so good though,I'm not afraid he will cast me aside,because his acceptance of me isn't based on my goodness,it's based on his goodness. I don't fear because I have faith in his goodness and mercy on my behalf. Even when I mess up on purpose he still loves me and won't cast me aside. When I start thinking about how good and merciful he is even after how bad I've been it just makes me want to be a better man. It doesn't make me want to sin more. Grace makes me want to sin less,and the more conscious I am of who I really am because of him,the more I will act like who I really am in him.

Please PM or ask here about any questions about anything I've said. I think you really want to follow Jesus to the best of your ability,and all I honestly want is to help you to do that the way he intended.

R.H.,

I think you have misinterpreted what I said. Nowhere have I stated that those trusting in Jesus are denied.

I agree with what Hastings wrote. Where was the law done away with?

On the cross.

Fulfil (plēroō) does not mean to get rid of. It simply means to fill it up or perfect it.

It is very fulfilling to read the old manuscripts and understand who the creator was and some of His physical traits. If that was taught today as it had been before we got all modern and liberal, you would then understand what Thomas knew. It would literally accelerate ones repentance ( to change ones thinking).

Yes,Jesus fulfilled all the law. He was in fact the only one who could fulfill the law. He is the only man born to have never sinned,never to have broken one commandment. Jesus fulfilled all the law. The only way we can fulfill the law is in him. Jesus is not our example. He is our surrogate. Jesus fulfilled the law that we couldn't fulfill. Jesus paid the price that we couldn't pay. The only way we pay for sins is through Jesus by becoming one with him. Jesus defeated death,and lives forevermore.The only way we defeat death and live forevermore,is in him. Everything we are as a Christian,is only in him.

One can trust in Jesus, but reject or blasphem the Father sent 'helper'-Holy Spirit,
which is deemed an unpardonable eternal sin.

Mark 3:28-29
28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter,
29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

Matthew 12:31-32
31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven
32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit
will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

John 14:26
However, the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything.
He will remind you of everything that I have ever told you.

Jesus nailed it to his cross,having fulfilled all of it in himself. As I spoke of before,Jesus fulfilled the law by keeping it. He is the only one ever to have kept the law. Jesus obtained the blessing of the covenant of the law by keeping it and at the same time suffered the curse for breaking it. Through out faith in him we can receive the blessing without suffering the curse. You will find that in Gal.13-14. read all of 3 and you will understand even more.

Read Gal. chapter 4 which tells how the law served as a tutor until Jesus. Read particularly verses 21-31
Galatians 4:21-31King James Version (KJV)

21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


The children of Hagar represent the law in this passage,that first covenant based on law. We are not under that covenant any longer,indeed why would anyone want to be! My God in Heaven why do people fight to be under the law!! It is only out of bad teaching. Good people have the idea that Grace means Christians sinning more. That is the farthest thing from the truth possible. Paul said it isn't even a question to be asked. He said how can we who are no longer bound to the sin nature, continue in the sin nature!! God forbid!

The way we continue in the sin nature is when all we think of is sin. It's like telling a man he can't have chocolate cake. As soon as you tell him,all he thinks about is wanting chocolate cake. We are only so bound up in sin because all we do is judge ourselves and others based on different levels of sin. If we had out eyes on Jesus and had a righteousness consciousness we would be so consumed by the things of God that we wouldn't have time for sin.



Other scriptures that speak of us no longer being under the law are all through the NT. Here are just a few.
2Cor.3:7-14
Eph.2:14-16
Col.2:14
Rom.10:4
Rom.7:6
Heb. 7:18-19

Judging from all of this you write, you must think that I don't know the NT, maybe don't understand it, maybe I didn't study it, nor even taught it. If that is your thoughts you would not be correct. Because I have is the reason I say and believe what I've written.
The scriptures you have posted is the reason Hastings said what he said about Paul. I concur with what he said.

My friend,I've studied this out seven ways to Sunday and I sincerely believe that scripture isn't just talking about saying a bad word against the Holy Spirit. The scribes knowing that our Lord was performing miracles by the Holy Spirit,deliberately,and knowingly attributed them to Satan,doing so to in an attempt to discredit the power of the miracles Jesus was performing. I'm not even sure this sin could be committed today.

Just as Adam & Eve had a choice to eat the apple or not to eat the apple! The choice they made had consequences for themselves and for all the rest of the world for all time.

Let me make sure I am getting this straight. You simply reject two thirds of the New Testament because you don't agree with it? I don't care how much you have studied it. I hope it was a bunch. You seem like an honest man. The only conclusion I can come to is that you reject it because you don't fully understand it and see how it fits in the whole. I cannot grasp why any Christian would reject grace,unless it's because he thinks it's something that it isn't,or doesn't understand what it is? Can you tell my why you would reject grace and wish to be under the law? I honestly would like to understand.

Except that little part where there's no reason to believe they ever existed, which mean there was no Adam and Eve to commit the original sin, and hence no need for a crucifixion to wash away a sin that never happened.

And even worse than that, Paul was an Apostile to the Gentiles, and preached another Gospel in the era of the Law, which was a Message of Grace to All and Any who would believe. Thus making him a False Prophet.

If I was a false Prophet and wanted to attack the security of believers who had bought into the doctrine of Grace, I would seek to take out the Apostile Paul. I Would focus on the portions of scripture that were written to the Jews, and I would present it to Believers living under Grace, who were once in bondage to the Law.
I would abuse and pervert scripture in order to remove the doctrine of God's Grace, and allure believers to become slaves to the Law once again.

Right.? (Wink)
[/quote]

You catch more flies with honey, not by taking someone out. Even communism knows this. [/quote]

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You are correct Sir. I'd not want to be a "Moses" offending those who would seek freedom but stumble when seeing his anger boil to the point of murder.



The "honey" dripping from the lips of Jesus while addressing "flies" sounded something like this;

"...ye blind guides.." Matt 23
"..ye fools.." Matt 23
" Woe unto you, scribes and phararisees...for ye are like white sepulchers..full of dead mans bones, and all uncleanness.." Matt 23
"Ye serpents.." Matt 23
" Ye generation of vipers.." Matt 23
" Woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites.." Luke 11
"Ye are as graves which appear not." Luke 11

The "doctrine" of John MacArthur, Paul Washer, Aiden Tozer, Ray Comfort, David Cloud as well as others (including myself at one point) is a little thing called "Lordship Salvation-ism."
It is not new, nor is the Spirit which drives it.

I've noticed that when Jesus confronted that Spirit, His speach was far from being "gentle as a dove," or "seasoned with salt."

Running the risk of offending those who would seek freedom, Moses lost his cool and killed the abusive task master. Those whom God would have set free were so offended that they chose to remain in bondage for another generation.

Let me be careful not to repeat that error.


My post was directed toward the Spirit behind the doctrine of "Lordship Salvation."
That Spirit is no "Fly" seeking to be caught.
It has an intirely different adgenda.

It is the single most deceptive Spirit among the believing community.
It is a "Baby" killer that seeks to destroy the hope of Salvation buy suggestion that the Father's plan of the "finished" work by Jesus was "Almost" good enough and that His Grace is not sufficient.
Of course it rejects Paul.
The Spirit also rejects Jesus, but it won't admit that, lest it be exposed.

I feel deeply for those who have are under the deception of that Spirit and it is my hope that The Truth would break through and bring deliverence to them.

Even without Adam and Eve,an insightful and honest man should know he isn't going to Heaven on his own merits. A prideful one might think he doesn't need anyone else.

You catch more flies with honey, not by taking someone out. Even communism knows this. [/quote]

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You are correct Sir. I'd not want to be a "Moses" offending those who would seek freedom but stumble when seeing his anger boil to the point of murder.



The "honey" dripping from the lips of Jesus while addressing "flies" sounded something like this;

"...ye blind guides.." Matt 23
"..ye fools.." Matt 23
" Woe unto you, scribes and phararisees...for ye are like white sepulchers..full of dead mans bones, and all uncleanness.." Matt 23
"Ye serpents.." Matt 23
" Ye generation of vipers.." Matt 23
" Woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites.." Luke 11
"Ye are as graves which appear not." Luke 11

The "doctrine" of John MacArthur, Paul Washer, Aiden Tozer, Ray Comfort, David Cloud as well as others (including myself at one point) is a little thing called "Lordship Salvation-ism."
It is not new, nor is the Spirit which drives it.

I've noticed that when Jesus confronted that Spirit, His speach was far from being "gentle as a dove," or "seasoned with salt."

Running the risk of offending those who would seek freedom, Moses lost his cool and killed the abusive task master. Those whom God would have set free were so offended that they chose to remain in bondage for another generation.

Let me be careful not to repeat that error.


My post was directed toward the Spirit behind the doctrine of "Lordship Salvation."
That Spirit is no "Fly" seeking to be caught.
It has an intirely different adgenda.

It is the single most deceptive Spirit among the believing community.
It is a "Baby" killer that seeks to destroy the hope of Salvation buy suggestion that the Father's plan of the "finished" work by Jesus was "Almost" good enough and that His Grace is not sufficient.
Of course it rejects Paul.
The Spirit also rejects Jesus, but it won't admit that, lest it be exposed.

I feel deeply for those who have are under the deception of that Spirit and it is my hope that The Truth would break through and bring deliverence to them.

[/quote]

And again, you know not of what I said and have misinterpreted.......again.
And no, I am not a disciple of those you mentioned, nor am I a scribe, phararisee, a serpent, nor a viper ......... thank you very much. My Father is above, not below.

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Sorry for the confusion 22,
Fixed it.!

I was Not addressing you, but I can see what happened, Mr Hastings quote got copied from off your post.
Your position is somewhat different than what he was suggesting.



Hope that clears it up.

Understand. Thank you.