Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors BillR's T & RT

Posting for BillR:

Top 99T 300 Savage 372XXX










Bottom 99 RT 30-30 426XXX

Jayzus.

I would really like to find an RT in 30-30 someday. Savage 99s in 30-30 are multiplying in my house like rabbits.

Both are beautiful rifles there.

Very nice rifles! I think iv only seen one RT for sale and I bought it, it now lives in N.H.

I really appreciate the two side by side to compare. A few subtle differences in checkering front and back, buttplates, forearm profiles, etc. Those are breathtaking.

Beautiful rifles!

Wow, just wow!

Beautiful.
Sadly, it appears 99 Savages were never very popular here in Tennessee. The ones that were here seemed to gravitate toward Bubba.

Day-yum...

Both are very nice pre war/war models. File this under why didn't they do that; The pre war R and RS both have their combs notched, making for a sweet looking rifle to my eyes. Why not the T? Savage went to the trouble to do a special fore end for the T why not add a little more cost/effort and notch the comb? Its a small complaint.

I've been talking to Bill, he's been having a hard time posting on here so he more or less just gave up.

I'm guessing thats why Bert posted the pics of his guns for him.

That a pair that beats a full house !! beautiful rifles. Don

Very nice in deed!

Nice to compare!

For those of us who don't know, whats the difference between an R and RT.? Judging from the photos the only difference I can see is the checkering pattern on the forearm, with the latter looking like a forearm from a post-war R. But both appear to have pre-war receivers. I've heard of Rs and RSs, but not RTs. Both are remarkable specimens!

Sure wish Bill would get online. He's having software issues and asked me to post these beauties.

It's a little hard to notice but if you look carefully you'll note the front sight on the "T" is the red version.

Also, looks to me like the tip of the forearm of the T is a bit larger and squarer/blunt vs the RT.

The primary identifier for me is a T forearm with R checkering. But there are other things....Serial numbers from during the war, 22” barrels in calibers that should have 24” barrels if it was an R, caliber (30-30) in a rifle that are numbered after Savage quit chambering rifles in that caliber...
There is probably more, but that what I see.

RT is a made up name which was concocted by this forum, I believe. Savage never cataloged an RT. David Royal's book has info on the RT on pgs. 83 &84. As of 8/28/2016 Rick 99 had data on 24 RT rifles in varying calibers and barrel lengths. There is no concrete info, that I know of, about why Savage made this variation which was made close to the time that Savage was about to move the plant from Utica to Chicopee Falls. It is clear to me from Rick's info that some, if not all, of these rifles were made up from barrels that Savage must have had in stock and were trying to use up before the move. That does not explain the reason for the different forearm style, however. Were these a special order for a distributor or ??? We don't know.

I have an RT in .30-30 with a 22" barrel, s/ 432XXX. Both the front of the frame and the bottom of the barrel of this are stamped with a 5. I have no idea of the significance of this stamping.

In addition to the checkering pattern being different the forearm is wider and flatter on the bottom of an "RT". If you have one of each in hand you can notice a distinct difference in the dimensions of the forearm. There was an old thread a few years ago where Phill99 (Rod) took the time to measure the dimension of the 2 forearms with a caliper and there were marked differences.

Maybe somebody with better 24hourcampfire skills than I have can find that old thread.

They are really cool guns and a mystery lost to history, which makes them double cool IMO.

I think this is it: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...s/8001715/The_99_RT_What_do_we_know_for_

That's it.

Can't believe that was 4 1/2 years ago. Wonder what ever happened to Rod? Kind of miss him.

Hope he is OK

I check in from time to time, but not as often as I should. Doing fine, for the most part. Nice to see this discussion of the RT; it's still one of my favorite varieties of the 99.

Rod

Good to hear from you Rod.

Glad you are well.

Randy

Thanks guys, I appreciate the education!

Wow, those rifles are in excellent condition for their age.

Randy, I clicked on Rods profile and it said he was here yesterday?

Oops, Hi Rod, I see you are here, Joe.

The red bead sight on the T is actually a replacement and not the original. I keep my eyes open for an original but have only been finding hens teeth. Some days I can post on the forum and some days I can't. I hate computers!

Savage porn!

I had one in 30 30 with original tag. Tag was stamped 99 T then overstamped EG and then stamped again EG. Why I don't know......confusion at the factory? It was in the 431XXX range. 22" barrel. There is an old thread here somewhere. Seems to be too many to be explained by simple parts use up. Rod's measurement data on the forearm supports a sub model.

I'm no expert but it does appear that a variant exists from the factory. Why? Who knows? Not advertised, cataloged, etc. Yet they exist. Gotta call it something I guess, though doesn't appear much data exists. I read overstamped 99T/EG hang tag?? Yet it is called an RT.
For me, I go where the data leads and resist the temptation for conclusion, digging in and defending it until enough data is available.
Some of the irony is that somewhere in the '80's a fellow named Murray decided to begin to unravel a large ball of tangled string call "Savage 99". As he did he came up with more and more models and variants than was previously known or in print anywhere.
Here on this forum I read things that sometime tend to lump things back together to avoid "confusion" and create variants to suite their needs. The RT is a prime example, as is calling a 250-3000 type II a 99G and totally discounting the existence of 1920 1899A & 1899B that are cataloged, advertised and do letter, both of which I read here.
Confusion? What about the 99C, 99E & 99F all of which have multiple models?
It seems that part of Collector forums purpose is to identify and document new things rather than lump them together.
JMO.

This forum is not the Savage 99 police or Savage 99 policy makers or Savage 99 name makers or Savage 99 un-cataloged variant identifiers.

Just some guys that share an interest in collecting and talking about Savages. Sometimes we make up names for uncommon variants or anomalies so we all know what the other is talking about.

You can call an "RT" a "baloney sandwich" if you want to. So long as we all know what the other is talking about. What difference does it make?

What we do and talk about here really isn't that important.

I wouldn't read any more or any less than that into it...

JMO

Discipline is getting pretty lax around here.

Next thing you know we'll be calling them Weaver mounts tip overs or something.

So, Rick, what would you call the model collectively known as the RT? Where does the data lead you?

Screw that... There's quite a few guys on here that go to great lengths to find the facts and dig into things to find the truth.

No place else even comes close to expanding the knowledge base for Savage.

Does everybody on here agree on every point? No. It's the Internet, after all.

If I remember correctly, when JTC was asked many years back, about what we now refer to as the "RT" he stated that Savage advertised (cataloged) the EG and the R and that it was not an EG. The only problem with that statement is that the catalogs used in 1943, 1944 and 1945, the years the "RT's" were produced were the same as used in 1942. What we need are the 1943-1945 price sheets which I don't have nor remember seeing.

I suspect that it is an R variation of the time.I have no problem calling it an "RT". When I hear or see the term I know what the item is without going into a lengthy description and I like that. I would like to see other models (99-C, 99-F, etc.) nick named so it would be easier to determine what model variation we are talking about.

...and the Second version Model 250-3000 is not a G.

Rory:

I think you misinterpreted the context of my words

Without going into a lengthy boring verbose explanation, I'm on your side.

Let's get back to talking about guns again.

That is more fun.

Thank Rick.
Yea, as I said to another member here, that when I think about it in a WWII context it makes some sense.
My Folks talked about rationing of basic goods during that time and gun makers were reassigned to make war time items.
I have a Win 94 "flat band" carbine. A WWII time rifle for which Winchester/Cody have no documentation yet it is understood what it is and why it is. It is unique for that reason. The "RT" sounds similar in that regard.

I have some amount of records kept on the "RT" in a spreadsheet... I'll be honest, not my #1 priority even back a few years ago and I've not record much in years but that said... adding this one to my spreadsheet bring me up to a total of 30 and of that 9 were 30-30 so not a rare combo as it comes to 99s for me.

I have fields for a great deal of details in my spreadsheet but very limited actual data recorded... most were stamped on the front of the receiver with a 5 but all others that I have recorded otherwise were marked EG and are seen early and late in the serial range of the RT which from my record is 422xxx to 445,7xx

Cheers

That's interesting that some rec'r stamps were EG.
My Utica 99EG's (370xxx-390xxx) are stamped EG on the rec'r as well. Don't have anything in the 400xxx's.
I hope lovemy99 and Rick99 share spread sheets.
This "RT" sure sounds like the Redheaded stepchild of the Savage family.

There were only 2 models immediately after WW2 that show up in ads and price lists afaik - the EG and the R. The 1930's 99R was never stamped with an R on the front of the receiver, it was always a number (8 usually, though 5 does sound familiar). The 1930's 99T always had a T on the front. EG always had an EG.

So, yes, the "RT"s having a number most of the time, and an EG the rest of the time, is just one part of what makes it confusing.

Thanks Rory.
I don't think of it as "confusing", more like "inconclusive", which is fine.
Some day the "RT" will be better understood. Meanwhile, it is a pretty nice rifle.

Regarding the confusion factor. Meh, 100 years of production is done. There are ~ 3 dozen models, variants, special rifles, etc. Anyone with the need to know needs a book. No different than figuring out which Remington 870 you have. Just the way it is.

Now I want to open mine up and see what the receiver stamp is. Unless someone did it at the 2014 fest in Mercer? Rick or Rory?

Data data data. We want data.
When ya get a chance.

Yes, I have extensive records on the prewar Rs and they are marked with an 8 but the during/post war "Rs" or "RTs" are not that clear from my data but a section of them are clearly marked with a 5 on the front of the receiver. From 4317xx to 4324xx several have a 5... there are MANY members here that could help expand that data set by letting me know what there receivers are stamped with.

I records of "RTs" marked as EGs at 403,5XX and as late as 4476xx. The early gun is owned by Loggah and the later gun I owned and sold to a member here so I am confident in these data points.

Cheers

Drew are you looking only for pre-war R data?

I'll take data on prewar Rs and RSs and "RTs"... not interested in data on postwar Rs in standard configurations.

Cheers

Andrew

I have one R I got from a member here, you may already have it, I'll check the # and PM.

Well Brian, what da ya got? A "RT" or an "EGT"??