Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire More Questions For Bible Scholars?

there's been a bit of education performed here? i'm not understanding of the Tribe of Reuben. i do know a bit about the Benjamanites. spelling? that is, the left-handed Archers. when war become necessary, a careful placement of resources is required?

And Gad was the Calvary. Anyway, here ya go. Simeon is what you're looking for.

10 On the south side shall be the standard of the camp of Reuben according to their armies: and the captain of the children of Reuben shall be Elizur the son of Shedeur.

11 And his host, and those that were numbered thereof, were forty and six thousand and five hundred.

12 And those which pitch by him shall be the tribe of Simeon: and the captain of the children of Simeon shall be Shelumiel the son of Zurishaddai.

13 And his host, and those that were numbered of them, were fifty and nine thousand and three hundred.

God's covenant with Abraham was a one sided covenant. God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Abraham and while Abraham was able to watch but not participate God performed a rite in which the Lord, as a flaming torch and smoking furnace passed between the halves of animals, signifying what would happen to Him should He break the covenant with Abraham. Later God gave Abraham the rite of circumcision as the specific sign of the Abrahamic Covenant. Abraham was justified by his faith, which as we all know was great but not perfect, but by that same imperfect faith, we also gain our salvation, in the New Covenant which is much better than Abraham's but similar by faith and not law, the cost being believing and that alone. To illustrate how our covenant is so much better, once saved we are promised eternal life, never to perish, and no one can pluck us from His hand, not even ourselves. That is the meat I would offer to be chewed on.

Correct. He wrote a Law/contract on stones (which was contingent upon our keeping our end). The problem with that contract is that we ain't got what it takes. We responded with, ".. we willll do all that you have said.." and again to Joshua,, "..as we were with Moses, we will do as you have said.." I'm sure old Josh was rolling his eyes at that one.
We couldn't put our money where our mouth was. That law made us aware of the requirements, for it was clear, but our awareness didn't supply the material to fulfill our end.

God, wanting our relationship, wanting to build the house and knowing we are/were unable, voided the "if you do, then I will do" contract/law and wrote a new law (not on stone but on our heart) that is fully contingent upon our believing that the material is not contingent upon our yet attempting to uphold that which we cannot supply, but rather it rests upon the new contract/law that says, " the burden of supply is on Me (God) to get it done, the burden upon you is to believe."

That law is written upon our hearts. Here's why. Our hearts needed to be dealt with.
It was easy under the old law (perhaps why so many cling to it).

As an example, jesus taught that you were only guilty under the old law if you committed adultry. But under grace you are guilty if only you "think" of committing adultry. That is a Heart issue. We attempt to justify ourselves in thinking if we keep from "the act" were good to go. But Jesus says our thinking is connected to our heart, and that needs to be dealt with.

Hey Gus, chew on this. How do you know creation wasn't perfect? Just because it doesn't meet your personal expectations?

I've seen some really beautiful things emerge from tough situations, we all have if we have the patience to wait for it.

Then why did Christ bother talking about bounding & loosing sin?

why of course i don't know, and don't claim too either. i just look around, and see things, and observe. we see what we see, right?

of course creation wasn't perfect. adam & eve for the xtians came. they got overwhelmed by an alternative version of reality?

if creation was perfect, we'd all be living in some form, type or sort of heaven.

but, unfortunately, there was an alternative scenario.

and here we are, paying taxes, or not.

let's never claim that there wasn't a mistake early on.

Correct.
God's law/covenant with Abraham was indeed one sided. You are correct, Abe watched and listened to what God said He would do. Abraham believed God. Because Abe "believed," God credited Abe with His rightousness.

On the flip side, had Abe not believed he would not be able to be part of what God was doing. For his believing was the "legal" requirement, but he would have been a law breaker simply had he not believed. His unbelief would have left him in his own unrightousness.

And that has always been what God has desired AND required of us, that we would see and hear what He is doing and believe.

So it is with us. If we believe Him we are credited with His rightousness. If we don't, then we remain in our mess and our lawlessness.
He fulfills in His perfection what we cannot do ourselves. He fulfills the requirement and tells us what our roll is. Our roll is to believe and trust Him in what He says.

How do we think God likes being told that He's a liar, that His requirement is something other than what He has said it is.?


If He says, "Move in the direction of Grace through believing, I have done it all," but we choose to move in another direction, then we move in disobedience.

Although Salvation is a Gift and cannot be earned through works, Works are required in order to earn points
that result in differing levels of reward in Heaven.

Christ is but the foundation on which to construct such [worthy] works.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire,
and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.
14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.


2 John 8
"Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully."

***
1 Corinth. and John , both indicate a person needs to be careful to engage in the type of works that will stand up
to Gods evaluation process.

There must be some additional benefit to being fully rewarded ..vs partial reward, or no reward.
Would one rather have eternal life accompanied by full rewards from God ...or eternal life without them?

Tyrone,

I noted earlier that you have a Catholic background. I wanted to ask you if you have known of a Franciscan named "Brennan Manning.?"

personally, i don't think anyone has a clue until the issue of human population on the Urth has a front & center role for discussion. and of course i could be totally wrong. i acknowledge that. humans, eating the earth, it ain't happening. right?

Gus, You are correct. Hence a "new heaven and new earth". And that will be number 3 if you're keeping score. The first 2 were created good, but something (there's that drop of poison again) started contaminating them.

Actually no one has a clue unless it has come by revelation of the Holy Spirit.
Our enemy has blinded the eyes of those who would see, so that they may not.

No amount of human reason cures spiritual blindness.

In other words, if someone says "There is enough ice on the lake to support your weight, if they bring the news paper with writings of it being solid, if other fishermen return with a catch and tell you it was safe, you would still not have the liberty to accept the message because untill you actually go there and see for yourself, unless you take a step and test it, then you have no personal revelation that the reports of others is true. And even stepping doesn't bring the revelation, only the ice itself can do that.

God wants our company on the Lake, He has called us out and unto Himself. And requires our trust in Him.

Only He can reveil Himself and His truths...no amount of reporting or reasoning is going to cut it, no matter how true it is.

As to the decline of nature.

When man sinned God said something Very interesting. He told man that he would "till the earth" and survive that way.

What I can see in that is that ever since the "tilling" began to scratch the earth it wounded nature...

Just a thought. Not saying I committ to that concept, but it is a thought.

Haven't read his work. Did he provide an answer to my question that you & RH agree with?

Just got back this afternoon so sorry I didn't answer sooner.

Christ never talked about binding and loosening sin. The binding and loosening Christ spoke about was concerning our authority as believers and Heaven's role in that authority.

I think he might actually.
I don't know how he would speak to your questions, but sharing a similar background to you I believe his stuff would speak your language, so to speak.

I will be honest and say that I don't know much about catholic stuff, but Brennen does.
I don't think anyone has spoken to me the way he speaks, and what I got from his stuff forever helped my struggle and questions.

Just thought I'd throw it out there. Cheers.!

Gus, suppose it depends on what you mean by perfect. Sure isn't my concept of heaven. But perhaps we're here to learn something like faith. We learn by overcoming obstacles and unpleasantness. If that's so we've got a pretty near perfect training ground.


The trick is to understand what we see and people have been working out a method to do that since before Aristotle.

Help me understand how I could ever appreciate any other reward.
My life is headding to Hell.
I am sick and broken.
I am offensive to God.
I am ungrateful for his sacrifice
I am grudgeful toward him when I don't understand.
My attemps are as filthy rags
I hurt inside and therefore hurt others
I'm doomed without his sacrifice
I am doomed without his forgiveness

And yet He has given me all his fullnesss in Christ, made me a coheir with all He has given Jesus, He has set a table for me, allowed me in His dwelling place, even built me a home, healed my brokeness, removed my blindness, forgiven my sin, and I could go on...

What "reward" beyond that would matter to me.? Like the Price Is Right TV show "Scott, come on down, you've won a new car.!" Or whatever it may be.?
Things, call 'em rewards if ya like, pale in the face of being in His pressence, and don't mean squat to me personally.


I don't know.
Maybe those of us who know damn well that we are a mess, that we are corrupt, that we have lived in opposition toward His commands and His heart, that we have played the prodical son, that we are gross sinners, cheats, adulters, liers, whoremongers, drunks, abusive, and I could go on and on about my own screwed up mess of a life, but maybe it is true...Those who are forgiven much, Love much and apprieciate the reward that we've received in that He loves us..

...for me, and this is just me. But you can have my peripheral "rewards, when we get there. I could really care less about any fluff that might be awaiting. All I want is to be sitting on His lap in His presence. That will be "reward" enough for me.

For God to issue rewards in Heaven, they surely must have a God given purpose and value.
Yet you seem to cheapen and dismiss the value of such rewards that God has in store for those
that will have in Gods eyes, earnt them.




What If ones 'reward' was a higher responsibility more powerful position in the Fathers Temple in service to God?