Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Spiegel thoughts

A couple of thoughts in my head

1. Every spiegel drilled rifle I have ever seen still has filler screws in the holes? Kind of odd about 50% of the time on other rifles these are missing.

2. With the artist rendition being incorrect , wondering if the scope package was ever really shipped from them?

I picked up this scope block just yesterday at a gunshow out of a group of about 12 mixed scope blocks - looked for the front mount to go with it but nothing looked even close. I do not have a Spiegel to set it on but it looks like the correct block for one, and it looks like it's was used -



The block is made to take either pointed or cupped mounting screws on the right side and a pointed on the left so it would have accepted almost any scope from the time that mounted on blocks.

Spiegel offered both external and internal adjusted scopes, the internally adjusted scope mounted using two Mossberg No 7 mounts, the same mount as used on the front of the externally adjusted scopes. Some different variations of Mossberg"s seem to be the only scopes they offered in their catalogs and IMO are not really suitable for anything more than a 22.



Here are two slightly different looking Mossberg/Spiegel scopes - the sunshields are different and they are stamped the same, but there is a major difference in the eye relief, only one would have enough to be somewhat suitable for a high powered rifle and would have to be the one for 99's, but with that eye relief in a 3/4" scope that long, the field of view is very small. Most Mossberg scopes have such short eye relief they are only suitable to rimfires.



Here is a Savage/Stevens made Spiegel offering that came drilled & tapped for scope block and could be order with a scope mounted -



Here it is with the externally adjusted scope, as mounted - with the front mount as far forward on the scope as possible without turning it around, the scope is still not quite back far enough to be comfortable with it's short eye relief.

Gene, someday are you going to show the world that collection of 22's and scopes? I'm sure minds would be blown.

SavageFest 2018 maybe???

Gene
I would have been very happy to find that base. So the drilled rifle I have measures about .850 canter to canter how close to the block?
Any markings at all on it?

Thanks Chris

wow Gene that sure looks like the right thing.. keep us updated on your mission of discovery

plab

No markings, holes measure about 0.858" spacing on the bottom.

Sure looks and sounds right! I wish the front was taped to it.

"1. Every spiegel drilled rifle I have ever seen still has filler screws in the holes?" I agree and don't think we have seen a rifle with an originally mounted scope. That is what has made the extra scope base holes so interesting. It was not till we started collecting data on these rifles that it was clarified that they were factory holes. I've heard that these rifles were often passed over because of the extra two visible holes that were present.

I have a Lyman 438 scope mounted on one of my Spiegels . I used the same block that GeneB pictured above. It is listed on the Lyman scope block chart as a "Y". There is also a lower height version listed as a "W" but I have not found one of them yet. I don't think Mossberg 99 blocks have turned up.

My 99R in 250-3000 showed up with the filler screws for the rear holes empty. The front ones under the sight were still there.

Whether that means anything... I have no idea. Somebody likely just stole them to fill in holes on another gun. Middle gun:

Rory, I have to go check, but I think my SS has only one hole drilled under the rear sight, and it's in an ugly hand filed groove/flat. It has the roll engraving and special sling mounts. I'll get a pic in a while, Joe.

Interesting, because the bottom rifle there is a Spiegel. I think every oddly d&t Spiegel I've seen (and the handful of non-EG's) have all had the 2 holes by the rear dovetail.

I've got to pull that scope off, I just stuck it on there to keep from misplacing it. I use torx screws and didn't have any so I just stuck it on with regular screws. I thought I took the rear sight off, but I guess I put it back on so I wouldn't misplace it either. If you look just behind the dovetail you can see a rusty mark. That's where it looks like someone took a flat file to it. I think there is only one hole. I'll pull the scope and sight tomorrow and double check, and take a pic, Joe.







I might have put the rear sight back on to cover up the nasty file marks, Joe.

The serial is 3924XX, Joe

Ouch. Someone sure beat the crap out of that poor barrel! (I know it wasn't you, Joe.)

The forward hole on mine lines up above the "SS" in HI-PRESSURE, so they should both be behind the filed down area on yours. The forward one "might" be in the filed area.

That's an odd place to file down.. only thing I can think of they had another sight to put on, and had to file the barrel down to get the sight to the right height?

Scope clearance,

Dear gawd, that's a Winchester sight anyway...

Rick, what mark is on the front block in your set-up? I was looking through the few other block that were in the group with the rear I found but didn't see any that matched condition or looked like they might go with the rear, knowing the code might help me find a front someday.

As for Mossberg making the blocks to go on the Savage's, I have never ruled out that may not have and that Spiegel got blocks from another source - like Lyman, the scopes & rifles were from different sources and I don't know if Mossberg would want to tool up for some odd block for another makers centerfire rifle when the target market for their scopes seemed to be just rimfires. The fact that Lyman made them suggests to me someone asked them to, probably/possibly Spiegel - again, it's a rather obscure and complicated block, with apparently only one retailer carrying rifles that used it, that makes me question them deciding to make those blocks on their own to compete in a very small market.

As for not finding what looks like an original setup with a Mossberg scope - I would be glad to loan one of these scopes to someone to actually use on a centerfire & we will see how long it stays on the gun......