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Thank you for using "whatever" instead of "x", "y", etc. My brain shuts down when it encounters the alphabet mixed into an arithmetic problem. 😳

If you expect to work for one company for life, that is true. However I've found if you consider yourself an independent contractor no matter if you work for a company or 20 or 20,000, you are in control of your success. The majority of jobs I've worked I was sought out by the company to hire me away from my then current employer. Skills, work ethic and being able to work with others is a guaranteed formula of success. Yes I've had a few managers that I didn't get along with. Twice I managed to move on to greener pastures to get out from under them, once I got laid off. 2016 I made less than I had in 20 years and worked four different jobs, 2017 I made more than I'd ever made and filed a single W2.

I've worked for some wonderful managers, those who understand they are only as good as the folks they supervise and that their success is linked to your success. I've also worked for petty people that thought making you miserable was the way to make sure you knew who the boss was. I was thankful for the good bosses, and bid my time under the bad ones.

Gain skills and work for good people. If after 2-3 years at a place you aren't advancing and you can't stand your boss then it's time to freshen up the resume and see what's out there. I've had to suffer through less than stellar working environments for 2+ year stints several times in my career. I've also had wonderful stints for even long spells.

+1. Before the recession hit, I was getting head hunted 2-3 times a year. Since the slowdown, I still get offers, and my boss knows it. It usually cost him a raise to keep me. I'm debating a job change right now, in fact. A buddy of mine wants me to jump ship and come work with him as a liaison between the office and the field guys. It would require office skill I currently lack, but they are willing to train. They are a 2 billion dollar company, and could mean good things to come. Problem is, I don't much like change. I'm good at what I do.

Jobs without a degree, while the topic of this conversation, are of course the antithesis of a career in academia. I suspect there is a significant divide in the perspective and am supported by a fellow named Twain............who had this to say about academic jargon.


"As concerns this question, our inspired Founder instructs us that the fealty due from the Ultimate in connection with and subjection to the intermediate and the inferential, these being of necessity subordinate to the Auto-Isothermal, and limited subliminally by this contact, which is in all cases sporadic and incandescent, those that ascend to the Abode of the Blest are assimilated in thought and action by the objective influence of the truth which sets us free, otherwise they could not."

.....It was just a snow-flurry on a warm day: every flake was distinct and perfect, but they melted before you could grab enough to make a ball out of them. - "Three Thousand Years Among the Microbes"

So the question is posed, which is more important to your well being; the potato farmer or a respected member of the academic community?

But Dan, which of the two is better paid?

That might depend on which has more acres. Or is that ache-rs? I dunno but if I understood friend Mark he did not genuflect to a PHD on every occasion.

It doesn't take a degree for a Water Operators license in most states, just a Technical Certificate usually. Pay can be very good depending upon the locale of the position open.

Kellroy, this is not for or about you personally, but you said something in your last sentence that is key to many.

Dillon bucks quote to a friend who was making excuses for not taking a better job offer.


"Many good workers stay in bad jobs because of fear,
It is hard to walk away from the job you know, even if it sucks,
to face the unknown."



I don't say much worth quoting, but often this is a key to success.

Very few places pay pensions anymore, so you need to determine what is important to you. I started out with a Fortune 500 company that did pay a pension and I stayed 17 years which in retrospect was too long to have made really good money early on though I do appreciate that pension check now. Sure you get a merit raise now and again and more vacation, but the way to make bigger bucks faster is to let a company train you and then move.

So eight letters can be simpler than one.

I must say, just reading this was quite an education. Truth is there was a heck of a lot of good and worth while experience shared. My days working are done, and my synopsis which follows many others on here are the following.

Sad truth is the guy asking the question will probably never see the wisdom in all of these pages.

Spending a few years in the military is an education in itself. But when you sign up (if you can get in) sign up for a good MOS, preferably medical, radiation technician, IT, or something like that, something that is a stand alone job.

If you want to go to college after you get out at least you have a life basis for what you want to do, follow up on it. STAY OUT OF DEBT, even if it takes longer.

Work ethic is EVERYTHING. It is extremely hard to find someone who WANTS to work and can pass a drug test. You will never make it in a job if you can't do those two things.

You have three choices but you only get to pick two. You get to do what you want to do otherwise known as your passion. You get to make the amount of money you want to make (within reason) but it won't come over night. You get to live where you want to live. Pick two.

NOTHING comes easy. If you want to follow your passion you will be extremely lucky to make the good money but you can live with yourself. You can choose to make a lot of money, but it doesn't come overnight and it does come with a LOT of hard work and making yourself the most valuable person you can think of. Who cares if you don't like your job, you are in this for the money. Sometimes you get to live where you want to and still either follow your passion or make the money. Be assured that this doesn't happen very often.

Never, Never, Never, pass up an opportunity to get more education, regardless of how hard the work is. Education opens doors that you could never walk through without it.

Regardless of how much money you make, stay out of debt, and live below your means. Save all the money you can. If you can live on 2/3's of what you make all the better.

Pick the kind of friends that you would like to emulate. You will become most like your 8 closest friends. If they are losers.... guess what. If they are deeply in debt but have lots of toys...guess what. If they are successful and good investors..... guess what.

Be careful of the bad habits you make. Your children will excuse in excess what you do in moderation. That WILL break your heart.

Most peoples problem isn't how much money they make, it's how much they spend.

I worked with a very good Optometrist who could have been a professional golfer. She used to have business "outings" with these guys that were sure they could beat her. She'd con them into playing for stokes-the one with the higher score either paid for the round, if she was feeling merciful, or ended up writing a big check. If they pizzed her off, the check was very big. She was very competitive, and easy on the eyes too.

I forgot to mention my job guiding fishermen. I got a $150 tip today on top of my regular fee of $500. No, I won't get rich doing it, but it's a damn good time and pays for some cool toys.

good advice, lots of wisdom in there.

True words. My buddy Big Al did not go to college, and started working in the shop of a company that made down hole pumps at age 18. He learned every nut and bolt in those things, and everything that made them work. He went into sales about 4 years later. After working for a couple of different companies over the next 15 years, he decided he could make a better mouse trap, and developed trailered, horizontal pumps that could move up to 20,000 bbls/fluid per day with variable speed drives, etc. He built his business over the last 5 years, and just last year sold it for a cool $18M, at age 46.

I make $65K driving the big rig. Three months at the VoTech school and you are up and running, costs $975.

However, I was talking to some execs at my company last week, they said very hard to hire a millennial. These young techies cannot stand to have to sit behind the wheel for 11 hours a day, unable to use their Iphones. I was told this is a real crisis in today's trucking industry, no young people want the job.

The only thing to add to this excellent post is you can either have free time, or money. The life balance of having enough money to enjoy life, and not working so much that you don't have time to enjoy it.

I know a lot of guy here hate this but I made a good living as a union represented big city fireman. A high school diploma or GED is the entry level education requirement. It wasn't easy getting in since all they were hiring was minorities (I was supposed to be a slam dunk) and took 6 years of testing, This was at the end of the Carter years so the economy was in the dump and there were a lot of hiring freezes going on. My pension and medical is in good shape, my 457 is a decent back up if needed and I retired at 56-1/2 years old. The down side is I will need a knee replacement this year, ankle fusion and lower back surgery in the future. So far I can live with the neck, shoulders and hip pain.

nothing personal intended

you're probably aware of this but I doubt your union had the best interest of every worker at heart.The California pension system, thanks to the corrupt union influence, is way underfunded even in this booming economy. Gov moonbean keeps raising taxes to appease hiis public unions ( bought and paid for votes) forcing more and more tax payers out of California . And again raise taxes and so and so on....I wonder what happens when the economy goes through another down cycle? Bailout from US taxpayers?

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics...-blogs/dan-walters/article148181774.html

My buddy was a fireman/paramedic in Clayton Co. Georgia. South side of Atlanta.
Started to work in 1974, retired 2004, age 55.
He is racking in a $65K pension.

This is insane. The pension is 100 percent of the pay. That alone, is absurd. But it gets worse. The pension is 100 percent of the pay earned the last 3 years.
So what my buddy did was, during the first 27 years he worked there, he hardly ever worked overtime, he had other interests. In fact he moved 2 hours away, to a town near the N. Carolina line.
With 3 years left to work, he BOUGHT a house in Clayton County. This to milk the union pension scam.
He would work a 24 hr shift, then he would work another 24 if someone called in sick. Spend the third day in his house, then work his shift again on the fourth day. Had a couple of firefighter roomates working the same scam. When he retired, he sold the house to another fireman.

His pay was about $50K, but he piled on $15K each year of those last 3 years, in overtime, and now will be paid that the rest of his life.
The month that he retired, he bought a brand new big Ford pickup, and a shiny Airstream to tow behind it. He now spends his time driving from Georgia to Idaho to go skiing all winter.
Pensions are not supposed to be designed so that retirees can spend all winter at ski resorts.
Only in a government job can you get involved in a scam like this.
In private industry, such as, being a pilot for Delta, the pension is 1/3 of annual pay.

These absurd union government pensions have already driven many cities in to bankruptcy, wouldn't be surprised if Clayton County is next.

For a comparison, I bust my ass driving a truck over the road and I get $65K a year. If I lived in Clayton County, I would be paying for my buddy's "Lifestyle of the Rich and Unknown."