Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa South Africa to Confiscate Lands from Whites

This from the Simon Black newsletter I received yesterday:

If you’ve been following much international news, you’ve probably heard that, after literally years of scandal, abuse, and incompetence, South Africa’s president Jacob Zuma was finally forced to resign last week.

This is a big deal for South Africa.

The country has been suffering for nearly a decade under Zuma’s corruption.

And people are certainly hoping that the new President, Cyril Ramaphosa, will represent a positive, new chapter for South Africa.

Yesterday Ramaphosa addressed the nation’s parliament in Cape Town and made clear that his priority is to heal the divisions and injustice of the past, going all the way back to the original European colonists in the 1600s taking land from the indigenous tribes.

Ramaphosa called this “original sin”, and stated that he wants to see “the return of the land to the people from whom it was taken… to heal the divisions of the past.”

How does he plan on doing that?

Confiscation. Specifically-- confiscation without compensation.

“The expropriation of land without compensation is envisaged as one of the measures that we will use to accelerate redistribution of land to black South Africans.”

Ramaphosa minced no words: he’s talking about taking land from white farmers and giving it to black South Africans.

Astonishingly, he followed up that statement by saying, “We will handle it in a way that is not going to damage our economy. . .”

Wow, what a relief. For a minute it sounded like South Africa wants to do what Zimbabwe did several years ago.

Oh wait a minute.

That’s exactly what Zimbabwe did.

Sounds like it is a hell of a mess over there right now.

It is a damn mess over there ! Whites got the country and economy in good shape for while ,,now the uneducated blacks are in the process of totally destroying economy and tourism as they revert back to old tribal ways.."South Africa Today: shows the amount of farm murders and immigrants from other areas of Africa are calling for genocide of the whites..I cancelled a trip this year 'cause I refuse to go through Joberg again and fight off the trash blocking bathrooms for tips..Namibia is not near as bad but you still need to be aware and going through Frankfort is more expensive..Trump was right about these s*h* countries..Namibia is far safer and less expensive for sure..

Maybe CR means exactly whar he's saying. Maybe he's shouting empty rhetoric to calm and block criticism from the more radical factions in the ANC and in fact will take little action in that direction. Hard to say. I spent a good deal of time talking about CR with South Africans at SCI just a few weeks ago. None of them seem too concerned. /none of them are sending their kids out of the country or looking to immigrate. The think it is likely that the the ANC and DA may make a loose alliance, in which case no Zimbabwe like action will result.

Could they give away some unused easements? Sure. Government lands? Sure. Foreclosures? Maybe. I think that is all likely but I do think that CR has been in the private sector long enough to realize that RSA is doomed without ahappy and successful white population. Could that change? It is Africa. The fact that the ANC finally threw out Zuma gives me hope. I know one buddy who works up in Limpopo who is not optimistic. My varies buddies in FS, EC, WC are not nervous.

Maybe Marius can help us here. Boots on the ground.

I am thinking of cancelling my marketing trip to the USA for next week. The news over here is reporting that it's a free for all to obtain weapons over there, with little to no screening, with school shootings being a common occurrence. Sounds like its a mess over there.

Enough said?

Sounds like you have fake news over there as well. Nothing could be further from the truth

That was exactly my point Jorge.

Marius - thanks for the update.

Saw something the other day about Zimbabwe leasing the land they "redistributed" back to the white farmers, for some reason or other.

Not concerned about CR. He ownes a couple of game ranches and breed game. He has several white partners in his wild life ventures.
At the moment there is a very very positive vibe in the country. Still, he is the former enemy so we remain vigilant

Coming over in August with me missus. No qualms here, Marius. (Still, I wouldn't want to hunt out of Detroit.)

Great. You guys will have a wonderful time! Just stay vigilant, and don't do anything here or venture into areas that you would not do or go to in the US.

I remember well at DSC in 2013, a reputable safari booking agent that I had used told me, “ better get your African hunting done in the next five or so years, cause Muslims and politics will put an end to it.”

I'm sure some of it's exaggerated, but I have a co-worker that got hired about a year and a half ago that's from South Africa. He says it's a cluster and he's not going back, he's trying to bring his mother and sister over now. Maybe it's not a wholesale "I've gotta leave NOW" situation, but some folks like Hendri are taking the opportunity to leave if they have it. I talked with him a bit about it and his take on it is that there's no future there, things aren't going to get any better.

There has been a great difference in the way the north or Limpopo province is handled and the other provinces. It’s no surprise to me that Limpopo is more paranoid. The bad things that happen usually originate in Limpopo

Much like the horrific policies in America usually originate in California.

When I worked in Australia in 1990, my boss was from South Africa. He said it wasn't safe at that time in South Africa. Everyone, mothers taking their kids to school, parents going to PTA, etc. all carried handguns. I can't imagine what it is like now.

If they can run the whites out of SA, would it be racist of us to run the blacks out of here? Maybe we could propose a trade.

Name the "nations" in sub-Saharan Africa that are currently, or have been, able to function successfully under black/native leadership.

Bueller?

Bueller?

I think that the Chinese will be the 21st Century colonizers of sub-Saharan Africa, something like Nazi Germany's quest for more living space via their policy of Lebensraum..

Botswana? Namibie?

Well, that is all true. I can walk into any hardware or sporting goods store and buy anything I wish, short of a machine gun, and carry it out right now.

And it is becoming a mess with radical liberals attempting to circumvent that God Given Right.

What is your point?

He's making a satirical joke. The illustration is that in RSA they hear fake news about America, and vice versa....

Good friend of mine from SA told me years ago

You folks are killing more folks in LA county in a week that are killed in our whole country in a month. Kind of changed my way of thinking about how their news is reported here.

You may want to change the way you look at things again.

LA county 2017 murders were just under 300 (The peak was in the 90s at a little over 1000 per year)
South Africa April 2016 through March 2017 murders were over 19,000

South Africa Murders

LA County Murders

Exactly.DON"T TRUST THE MEDIA.



Tell your boss, I say he's a moron. Not safe in 1990?

OK, I'm with Marius on this one. South Africa in 1990 was Apartheid era South Africa. As long as you were not in the black townships, there was very low crime. I felt very safe traveling there during that period. True corruption at the lower levels was almost unheard of. There were of course abuses on both sides when it came to ANC vs. the government, but that is a different matter.

However, and I can't say if Marius can remember this, there was a growing agitation from the ANC with the desire to affect destabilization of the government through social unrest. Many whites in South Africa at the time were prepared for a civil war. All abled bodied men had to serve at 18, and then were part of the militia. All the adult men I knew had their army issued R1 or R4 locked away, but were prepared to use it when the SHTF.

Maybe the guy in OZ was in an area of ANC turmoil. I can tell you that there was very little trouble I recorded in the Eastern and Western Cape or OFS back then. Have no idea about life in the Transvaal or Northern Transvaal then. (Or whatever they call it now. WTF is Gauteng????)

.

Just be sure to compare apples with apples. In RSA, out of 60 Million people, 50 Million are black African. They deal with crime the African way, so majority of those numbers are black on black within their communities. You can never compare Africa to the USA. We still have tribes for crying out loud, and if someone steps out of line, they will take care of him themselves in manners that you do not want to imagine. ( See "Necklacing") When I say within their communities, I don't mean the hood like in the USA, with gangsters walking around with iPhones, and their jeans around their knees either. I'm talking about tribes that still live in mud huts.
That is the reality when you are vastly in the minority, especially in Africa. Stats will always look skewed.

Guys, please understand one thing. Many might say I'm simply saying this because I have business interest here. I could pack up my stuff tomorrow. I have a Bachelor's Degree in Engineering while my wife has an MBA. My wife and I have no children, so nothing is keeping us here. If it was as bad as the media makes it out to be, I would be out of here.
Africa will always have its problems, but let Africa sort itself out. I'm not for one second saying South Africa does not have it's own problems. We do have farm attacks. We do have racial tension.
(Nothing new.) We do have crime. It is not stopping me from living. My wife and I still go for walks in the evenings.
Don't paint the entire South Africa with the same brush. I'm still fine here.

If any one has any specific questions, regarding South Africa, your safety concerns, maybe you have a trip coming up, please feel free to PM me. I will be happy to answer your questions.

Nothing much has changed. Those areas are also least affected still today. Also something to keep in mind is that we have 9 different tribes within South Africa. You can never compare the Xhosa people we have down here in the Eastern Cape, to say the Venda people in the furthest North of Limpopo. I could immediately feel the difference in attitude between them and me, being a white man in their territory. Not an area that I want to be in.

So...which is it?

I presume that you are trying to show me up as contradicting myself. Please read further up where I say, don't paint the entire South Africa with the same brush. Is it fair to say that I can compare downtown Detroit to your neighbourhood? Every country in the world has dangerous areas. Where I am as far down South as you can go before hitting the Indian ocean, it is much safer.

When I said, "Not much has changed" it was in terms of the areas mentioned, being much safer than other areas in South Africa.

By the way, that area where I went to is called Louis Trichardt, which is not ANC territory. That belongs to the EFF, which is probably equivalent to your Black Panthers if not more radical. Would it be fair to compare the entire USA 's safety rating based on areas which belonged to Black Panther?

I'm done here chaps. It's the reason why I did not want to get involved in the first place. People ask questions, I give answers, then get called out.
Will go and calm myself and go for a walk with my bow.
Do and believe as you wish.

Sorry, you have misunderstood my intent, I was looking for clarification only as there seems to be a contradiction in your two statements.

I personally know very little about South Africa and the conditions there.


p.s. I am Australian.

Marius,

I understand your frustration and hope you enjoy your walk with your bow.

How many times do we read how dangerous Zimbabwe is. Having traveled all over Zim and having spent a fair amount of non hunting time there I have never felt unsafe. A friend from high school that has lived there for over 30 years and sorry for us in the States. Most people will never believe that, they only see the bad side. It is like judging crime in Louisiana by looking at New Orleans.

But it is also extremely inaccurate to say they are twice as many murders in LA county than the whole of South Africa. But hey, we have tribal warfare also. Now it is more Mexican gangs but at one time it was the Crypts and Bloods killing each other. Even locally we have a number of shootings in public where nobody saw anything and the next day there is a retaliatory shooting and again nobody saw anything.

Good luck on your upcoming season. Hope you are getting rain where it is most needed.

Marius,

I think your insight is vey important. For those who have travelled to South Africa little or never, it's a difficult place to understand, as I'm sure the USA is outsiders. We need reports from "Boots on the ground" to really understand the conditions being reported.

I'm fortunate in that over the past 30 years I've visited your country often and fell in love with it. I've made lifelong friends, and have gotten to know their friends and families and through them I get some info, but not the whole picture. Other guys don't have that luxury. I still want to learn more, and hope you will continue to freely share it. Don't be afraid to defend your country, just like don't be afraid to point out the warts. It benefits us all.

I apologise for misunderstanding sir.

Missed a bruiser of a Duiker. They are chasing females at the moment, so don't stand still for very long. Now I'm worse off than before I left, just thinking about that damn Duiker.

Mike, I agree with you 100%. Zimbabwe is by far my favourite country, and it is the place where I feel the safest as well. I took my wife there for our anniversary 5 years ago, so that should say enough of what i think of the so called safety warnings.

Thank you sir. I appreciate your words immensely.

Admirably done, but truth be told it is more likely to be my delivery of the question.

I thought there were 22 tribes in Africa, counting the two white ones.

To all of the South African citizens you have my condolences for the US driven coup that removed the progressive and successful white lead government in favor of the current corruption filled black majority rule.

Mike I didn't mean literally, simply relating that the US news the folks get in SA is quite misleading as well as the news we get here about SA.

Dangerous in both places at times.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...s-story/a8a81155995b1adc1c399d3576c4c0bc

From the article "Mr Malema has been leading calls for land confiscation, forcing the ANC to follow suit out of fear of losing the support of poorer black voters. In 2016, he told supporters he was “not calling for the slaughter of white people‚ at least for now”."

If the president of the U.S.A. made the statement highlighted in red I think I would be getting my family the hell out of here.

He said this in 2016. He is not the president though. He is the leader of a minority, radical group that gets much more publicity than he should. Same as one of your black panthers saying this. He was called out by white farmers to meet at a place to follow through on his words, and he never arrived.

Marius, Once again thaks for your report. My wife was all worked up about this last night, and I told her to relax asI hadn't heard anything about Malema being in any position to do such.

241 to 83 in favor of his motion the way I read it....made in Parliament this week, in favor of starting the process to take land without compensation.
Hopefully this is fake news.

Cape Town - President Cyril Ramaphosa has said there is no reason to "panic and start beating war drums" over Parliament's decision to look at land expropriation without compensation.

Ramaphosa was on Thursday responding to the National House of Traditional Leaders debate on his address to the House this week, where the issue of land was a major theme.

The new president tried to calm fears over the National Assembly's passing of a motion to have Parliament's Constitutional Review Committee look at the feasibility of amending the "property clause" in the Constitution.

"What this moment requires is for people to engage with each other and come up with proposals that can lead to a just and sustainable outcome," Ramaphosa said.


WATCH: Land expropriation without compensation: What needs to happen to amend Constitution

"There is no reason for anyone of us to panic and start beating war drums. Farming activities must continue as normal, and investments in land and farming must continue.

"We are going to handle this matter in the way we've always handled difficult issues in our country: by dialogue, discussion, engagement, until we find good solutions that will take our country forward."

The motion, passed on Tuesday, called for the committee to review Section 25 of the Constitution, allow for public comment and input, and to report back to the National Assembly by August 31.

Ramaphosa maintained that South Africa belonged to all who live in it, black and white, and that the land process was an opportunity to make "just choices that will serve to unite the nation".

"Today we have a great opportunity to address the land question, but to address it in the way that will make sure our economy continues to grow, make sure our agricultural production keeps going up, and make sure that indeed there is food security in our country.

"South Africans must therefore navigate this issue not by fear or distrust. Their choices must reflect their hopes, not their fears."

'Desist from driving fear into the hearts of our people'

The passing of the motion has got South Africans from all walks of life and from all income groups talking, he continued.

"Some have become very hopeful, some have become very fearful. It is a question that we will continue to handle with care and responsibility as government.

"There will be no smash-and-grab of land in our country. That we will not allow," he repeated, to applause from the Old Assembly.

He further stated the matter would be resolved with comprehensive consultation.

"There are some who say there is no need to talk. There are some who continue to drive fear into the hearts of South Africans and the international community.

READ: Land expropriation without compensation: What you need to know

"Some have even been involved in sending messages to international investors, saying it is no longer safe to invest in South Africa.

"I would like to say, desist from driving fear into the hearts of our people about this matter," he said.

The matter was serious, and it was important to discuss it "in the most responsible manner".

'It's in SA's interests to have commercial farmers'

The ANC government owed it to their children to "refute the myth that Africans are not friends of commercial agriculture", he said.

"It is in our interests to have more successful commercial farmers. This administration is fully committed to provide the necessary support."

Ramaphosa said he would soon be initiating a dialogue with key stakeholders to give effect to the ANC's resolutions on land, adopted in December at its national conference.

"This is the agenda we have, and we are going to address this to make sure we come up with solutions that will resolve this matter once and for all.

"This original sin that was committed when our country was colonised must be resolved, and it must be resolved in a way that takes South Africa forward."

Good stuff, Sir.
Thanks for posting.

As the OP for this topic, I never meant to imply that it was not safe for Americans to visit RSA. I have hunted there, in Limpopo province, and also in Zim during the Mugabe era. I had no problems.

But I think it is different for whites who live there. Someone posted that the new Zim government might lease the farms back to the whites. Fine, but of 285,000 who lived there in 1985, only 15,000 remain.

In 2006 my PH in RSA told me that most Whites there send their kids out of the country to school, mostly in England, Canada, and Australia. Upon graduation they often try to stay there. Blacks must be given preference in college admissions, regardless of their ability, and white engineers are not allowed to be hired unless there are no blacks available.

Ramaphosa's remarks, quoted by Marius above, seem to me to say absolutely nothing of substance. I think a good translation would be, "Don't you whites do anything until we can figure out how to run the place with blacks and steal your stuff."

I personally would not be concerned in the slightest about hunting in RSA, or hunting with Marius Goosen, who comes well recommended. But if I lived there, my number one priority would be to leave.

I have met a lot of former South Africans here and to a man they all like South Africa and absolutely hate what it has become.

I personally have found the expat South Africans to generally be my type of people, not so keen on the black Africans I have met...Kenyans seem to be okay but those Somali (skinnies) all seem to be the lowest form of filth to draw oxygen.

Like I said from the start, it is not a black and white thing.

https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/so...ithini-calls-on-zulus-to-rise-over-land/

Mariius:I will add my thanks for the elaboration on this topic as well. However, with my comparatively little exposure to Africa and what Ive seen in the past....I don't hold out much hope for any type of decent resolution. It may take longer in RSA but the end result of a Majority Rule over the country will be disastrous. JMHO

Thank you for your comments sir. My reply to that would be, why did the main opposition party take two of the ANC metropolitan strongholds in last year's elections? The opposition party, now holds Cape Town, Nelson Mandela Bay, as well as Johannesburg. If you look at it from a Black vs White perspective, then I would agree with you and your comment would certainly hold water regarding the history of majority especially in Africa, BUT not all blacks vote for the ANC.

It will never be a full on black vs white civil war. It just will not happen. Not in our life time anyways. The majority of people here, black and white are just not interested in that route.

Gentleman, hope I could at least shed some light on the matter and hopefully ease some tensions if you have a trip coming up. Its business as usual for me. This is my last post on this thread. Leaving for North America on Sunday and will hopefully have a successful marketing trip. Starting off with 5 days anniversary with my wife in Banff, Alberta, then start working the shows.

Take it easy boys.
God Bless.

Marius

Marius: can you pm me your show schedule please?

Thanks for the post Marius. That certainly makes me feel a little bit better about hunting SA next year.

I remember very clearly hearing some S.As saying "it will never happen here"--- back in the late 70s.

Holy crap!!!! 19,000 murders in one year. There is no way to sugar coat that.

That's what happens when nig-nogs are in charge. (See Chicago, Detroit etc..)

Will SA run out of water as predicted next month?

It's not the whole country, primarily the Western Cape area including Cape Town. They've had a little relief from the recent rains, but are still in trouble. Huge growth in population over the past 10-15 years, and no planning or infrastructure upgrades. Africa as usual.

A good article...

The Right Is Getting South Africa’s Land Crisis Wrong
A different take...

That is simply the most misguided pile of rubbish I may have ever read in my life.

Live there for a while and see if your opinion is the same. This is about as accurate as Mandela being in Prision, all the while he made tens of millions of dollars while under " house arrest" liviung with a butler, maid, and landscapers to care for his grounds within the prison complex. Yet his wife was still killing thousands of people a year by horrible means.

Never heard that on opra eh!

We don't have a President stealing from whites and giving them to blacks. This is a recipe for a race war and the destruction of South Africa.