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Originally Posted by rovert
I can't see how suggesting all of these PRS favorite scopes is helpful. This thread is mainly asking for a hunting scope. I can't imagine using a Vortex EBR-2C (the most poplar reticle from the last article) for a big game hunting rifle. The parameters were up to 650 yards hunting and 800 yards target. 18 mils between the (not quite heavy enough) horizontal posts is way too much if the lights go out. The reticles available would rule out many of these scopes for me. The S&B P3 reticle is probably the best available from the scopes mentioned so far. I'd rather see hashes than dots, though. I think the Bushnell G2H would be similarly useful, but still a little wide.



I find that my S&B PMll scopes are my favorites for my hunting. YMMV

You are correct that these links are about competition and does not address low light hunting situations, but the6 do show reliability.

Last edited by jwp475; 02/23/18.


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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by rovert
I can't see how suggesting all of these PRS favorite scopes is helpful. This thread is mainly asking for a hunting scope. I can't imagine using a Vortex EBR-2C (the most poplar reticle from the last article) for a big game hunting rifle. The parameters were up to 650 yards hunting and 800 yards target. 18 mils between the (not quite heavy enough) horizontal posts is way too much if the lights go out. The reticles available would rule out many of these scopes for me. The S&B P3 reticle is probably the best available from the scopes mentioned so far. I'd rather see hashes than dots, though. I think the Bushnell G2H would be similarly useful, but still a little wide.



I find that my S&B PMll scopes are my favorites for my hunting. YMMV

You are correct that these links are about competition and does not address low light hunting situations, but the6 do show reliability.


Which reticles do you have in the S&B's?

I get that they show reliability but a hunting scope has to bring more to the table. That is a big part of it but there are other considerations that don't mean a thing to a PRS guy. I just want to make sure the OP is keeping that in mind. It is easy to start thinking that "xxx" scope is what is winning the competitions so that is what I need hunt long range when the fact is it could be a nearly useless hunting optic.

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Not jwp, but the mil-dot reticles are what I like for hunting.



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I'm more than willing to cover up more of the target for a heavier reticle when hunting. I appreciate the fine reticles on targets but in thick cover or last light they suffer.

Would love to see a S&B PM II 6x42 fixed power with a hunting reticle.

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Originally Posted by jwp475
I realize that and I’ve rea$ all of them. S&B are very expensive and thr6 do not sponsor to my knowledge. I’ve used a lot of different scope and S&B has been the best for me especially in low light hunting situations. I own 6 of them at present. I very reluctant to spend the coin on them at first bu5 once I did nothing else measured up.


S&B sponsored a lot of shooters.... in 2014. Vortex sponsers a lot of shooters now. Actually the only company in the top 5 that doesn’t sponsor multiple shooters is Nightforce.


The PRS “stats” on face value should be taken with a grain of salt. Unless you know the politics and inner workings you’re not seeing the what you think you are. For instance- if my life depended on it I would choose a Bushnell HDMR over most current production S&B’s as they have fewer problems. One can like that or not- it’s simple reality when 20 of each are laid side by side and actually measured, tested, and used hard. But one could look at the “rankings” and see that only a couple shooters used Bushnell..... Of course that’s because Bushnell has drastically cut it’s shooting team


Features and glass are what sell in PRS- not absolute reliability.

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Originally Posted by jwp475


Schmidt and Bender scopes were still topping more rifles than any other this year. This probably comes as no shock. Although the design is now a decade old, the Schmidt and Bender PMII 5-25×56 continues to be the king in the long-range scope world. This was proven once more in a 400+ hour data-driven scope field test I conducted recently focused on the best 18 scopes money can buy. Apparently, it took me 400 hours to figure out what most of these guys already knew! Although you may have to sell a kidney on the black market to be able to afford one … it might be worth it. The scope is near flawless. Don’t you really only need one kidney anyway?


http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/10/24/best-tactical-scopes-what-the-pros-use/


so is this a scope you have actually seen? remember last time you told me how great a certain scope was over another when you had not seen either of them. Do you just recite [bleep] you hear others say? your opinions seem emphatic even though in the last case you don't know shat from shinola about what your talking about because you had not seen either scope. just keeping it real.

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Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
Originally Posted by jwp475


Schmidt and Bender scopes were still topping more rifles than any other this year. This probably comes as no shock. Although the design is now a decade old, the Schmidt and Bender PMII 5-25×56 continues to be the king in the long-range scope world. This was proven once more in a 400+ hour data-driven scope field test I conducted recently focused on the best 18 scopes money can buy. Apparently, it took me 400 hours to figure out what most of these guys already knew! Although you may have to sell a kidney on the black market to be able to afford one … it might be worth it. The scope is near flawless. Don’t you really only need one kidney anyway?


http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/10/24/best-tactical-scopes-what-the-pros-use/


so is this a scope you have actually seen? remember last time you told me how great a certain scope was over another when you had not seen either of them. Do you just recite [bleep] you hear others say? your opinions seem emphatic even though in the last case you don't know shat from shinola about what your talking about because you had not seen either scope. just keeping it real.


I own 6 S&B scopes and I never told you I haven’t seen that scope. You are the one that came up with that BS.

Last edited by jwp475; 02/23/18.


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Originally Posted by smokepole
Not jwp, but the mil-dot reticles are what I like for hunting.



I prefer a mil based reticle with matching turrets. I also have moa reticle scopes with matching turrets.



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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
Originally Posted by jwp475
I realize that and I’ve rea$ all of them. S&B are very expensive and thr6 do not sponsor to my knowledge. I’ve used a lot of different scope and S&B has been the best for me especially in low light hunting situations. I own 6 of them at present. I very reluctant to spend the coin on them at first bu5 once I did nothing else measured up.


S&B sponsored a lot of shooters.... in 2014. Vortex sponsers a lot of shooters now. Actually the only company in the top 5 that doesn’t sponsor multiple shooters is Nightforce.


The PRS “stats” on face value should be taken with a grain of salt. Unless you know the politics and inner workings you’re not seeing the what you think you are. For instance- if my life depended on it I would choose a Bushnell HDMR over most current production S&B’s as they have fewer problems. One can like that or not- it’s simple reality when 20 of each are laid side by side and actually measured, tested, and used hard. But one could look at the “rankings” and see that only a couple shooters used Bushnell..... Of course that’s because Bushnell has drastically cut it’s shooting team


Features and glass are what sell in PRS- not absolute reliability.



I haven’t had a single issue with S&B scopes I have sent 1 NXS back that had a half MOA error in it that Nightforce promptly repaired. No issues since and that was in 2005.



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Originally Posted by Farming
For carrying and simplicity PM II. Single turn turret, mil dot reticle, fixed power, at 21oz
[Linked Image]

But a SWFA in fixed 6 or 10 would work well too, for less.


How many mils in elevation do you get in a single turn?

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Originally Posted by Ackleyfan


How many mils in elevation do you get in a single turn?




Originally Posted by Kimber7man
A single turn PMII will give you 13 mils on the turret.

It takes less than 7 mils to get to 1000 with my 6.5 SAUM...


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Originally Posted by Kimber7man


Originally Posted by Ackleyfan


How many mils in elevation do you get in a single turn?




Originally Posted by Kimber7man
A single turn PMII will give you 13 mils on the turret.

It takes less than 7 mils to get to 1000 with my 6.5 SAUM...




13.2 actually....;)


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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
Originally Posted by jwp475
I realize that and I’ve rea$ all of them. S&B are very expensive and thr6 do not sponsor to my knowledge. I’ve used a lot of different scope and S&B has been the best for me especially in low light hunting situations. I own 6 of them at present. I very reluctant to spend the coin on them at first bu5 once I did nothing else measured up.


S&B sponsored a lot of shooters.... in 2014. Vortex sponsers a lot of shooters now. Actually the only company in the top 5 that doesn’t sponsor multiple shooters is Nightforce.


The PRS “stats” on face value should be taken with a grain of salt. Unless you know the politics and inner workings you’re not seeing the what you think you are. For instance- if my life depended on it I would choose a Bushnell HDMR over most current production S&B’s as they have fewer problems. One can like that or not- it’s simple reality when 20 of each are laid side by side and actually measured, tested, and used hard. But one could look at the “rankings” and see that only a couple shooters used Bushnell..... Of course that’s because Bushnell has drastically cut it’s shooting team


Features and glass are what sell in PRS- not absolute reliability.



I'm seeing more an more statements like this. The builder who is taking care of my custom rig for testing the waters in PRS also competes. He has access to any scope he wants, including free ones manufactures want him to "vouch" for. He recommended the HDMRii to me and told me he still runs it on one of his comp rigs. Surprisingly to me, he also vouched for the new Mark 8 (non-illum) as his other choice.

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I've noticed your big game hunting rifles seem to wear the 10X S&B. Want to tell us why that is ? E

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Originally Posted by rovert
Originally Posted by rovert
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by rovert
[quote=WRO]


Typo? 7 mils is a little light for long range.


7 mild is 24 MOA which will get the opening poster well past the range he wants to get to.



Sure, if a bases or rings are used to give the full use of that 7 mils. Anyone that buys a scope with 7 mils of travel and intends to shoot 800 yards is nuts. I'd be willing to bet the Z8 actually has more than that, probably double.


Also, "well past" might be a little generous. I'm at 7.9 mils at 1000 with my 300 and a 200 yard zero. I would have to bottom out the scope and use Signature rings to zero it at 100 yards just to get to 900 yds with a 7 mil scope. Doable? Yes, but it is not an exercise in scope mounting that I care to participate in.

.

Its a 7 mil single rotation turret.

The scope has 36 total mils adjustment. No need to stress about mounting. It should be close at 1k, Or just get a few extra in the windshield depending on reticle choice.

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Originally Posted by scenarshooter


13.2 actually....;)


I'm gonna have to make it out for the Icebreaker to get to use all 13.2 mils.... grin


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Wow, there has to be others thinking the same thing. But I will proudly wear the badge of honor. Of being the only dumb hillbilly, that senses more money than brains involved here.






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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
Originally Posted by jwp475
I realize that and I’ve rea$ all of them. S&B are very expensive and thr6 do not sponsor to my knowledge. I’ve used a lot of different scope and S&B has been the best for me especially in low light hunting situations. I own 6 of them at present. I very reluctant to spend the coin on them at first bu5 once I did nothing else measured up.


S&B sponsored a lot of shooters.... in 2014. Vortex sponsers a lot of shooters now. Actually the only company in the top 5 that doesn’t sponsor multiple shooters is Nightforce.


The PRS “stats” on face value should be taken with a grain of salt. Unless you know the politics and inner workings you’re not seeing the what you think you are. For instance- if my life depended on it I would choose a Bushnell HDMR over most current production S&B’s as they have fewer problems. One can like that or not- it’s simple reality when 20 of each are laid side by side and actually measured, tested, and used hard. But one could look at the “rankings” and see that only a couple shooters used Bushnell..... Of course that’s because Bushnell has drastically cut it’s shooting team


Features and glass are what sell in PRS- not absolute reliability.


I posted this on Snipershide and asked if it was true. Lowlight the owner, former marine sniper, that still teaches long range tactical shooting to military personnel said it was BS and the Bushnell would be way down his list.

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/is-there-any-truth-to-this-claim.6873511/


Last edited by jwp475; 02/23/18.


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Originally Posted by scenarshooter
Originally Posted by Kimber7man


Originally Posted by Ackleyfan


How many mils in elevation do you get in a single turn?




Originally Posted by Kimber7man
A single turn PMII will give you 13 mils on the turret.

It takes less than 7 mils to get to 1000 with my 6.5 SAUM...




13.2 actually....;)


Have to say that scope has always appealed to me I like almost everything about it..... I may have to try one shortly!

thanks guys!

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What is this? High school?


jwp,

That’s neat. And nothing he said about where it came from is correct. It came from actually being issued and using the scopes.

What Frank says today about optics is different than what he said about them when he taught at Rifles Only. His observations when he was on the range every day and seeing large numbers rifles being shot with large numbers of rounds was..... significantly harsher. It’s quite easy to find and see that he has an issue with Bushnell beyond their product, as well as issues with Todd H.

Here’s a clue... in the massive scope tracking thread on SH (that “disappeared”) 100% Of Bushnells tested tracked and repeated perfectly or within 1%. So did NF, TT, and SWFA SS. Not so for S&B. Or Vortex, or Kahles, or Leupold.


Believe what you want.

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