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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
Asked for 50% and that is what they gave us. We also got offered to do another hunt at a reduced price but have not made that decision yet. I'll try to get pictures but I will have to do that at work which will be next week.
Seems, at first blush anyway, that accepting such an offer might be giving tacit approval to their methods and the way they operate. Perhaps they made a simple mistake; perhaps they do this one a somewhat regular basis. I certainly think I'd look into their history before agreeing to accept further associations with them. In a way I agree, certainly returning would and that is not a good place to be. I suspect the Troopers keep a close eye on anyone they suspect is running too close to the edge...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,511
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,511 |
Asked for 50% and that is what they gave us. We also got offered to do another hunt at a reduced price but have not made that decision yet. I'll try to get pictures but I will have to do that at work which will be next week.
Sitka- I tried to PM you but you private message box was full. Sorry about that, just made space a few days ago and it filled right back up on me.. Well ain’t chu jusda belle a da ball? 😁
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
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~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
Asked for 50% and that is what they gave us. We also got offered to do another hunt at a reduced price but have not made that decision yet. I'll try to get pictures but I will have to do that at work which will be next week.
Sitka- I tried to PM you but you private message box was full. Sorry about that, just made space a few days ago and it filled right back up on me.. Well ain’t chu jusda belle a da ball? 😁 No just an [bleep] everyone asks for advice.. 
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
To be fair, not everyone was asking advice... most were laughing at another zihn decantation...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,023
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,023 |
Asked for 50% and that is what they gave us. We also got offered to do another hunt at a reduced price but have not made that decision yet. I'll try to get pictures but I will have to do that at work which will be next week.
Seems, at first blush anyway, that accepting such an offer might be giving tacit approval to their methods and the way they operate. Perhaps they made a simple mistake; perhaps they do this one a somewhat regular basis. I certainly think I'd look into their history before agreeing to accept further associations with them. In a way I agree, certainly returning would and that is not a good place to be. I suspect the Troopers keep a close eye on anyone they suspect is running too close to the edge... If this happened with any regularity to a particular outfitter, how long before they'd pull his license?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
Asked for 50% and that is what they gave us. We also got offered to do another hunt at a reduced price but have not made that decision yet. I'll try to get pictures but I will have to do that at work which will be next week.
Seems, at first blush anyway, that accepting such an offer might be giving tacit approval to their methods and the way they operate. Perhaps they made a simple mistake; perhaps they do this one a somewhat regular basis. I certainly think I'd look into their history before agreeing to accept further associations with them. In a way I agree, certainly returning would and that is not a good place to be. I suspect the Troopers keep a close eye on anyone they suspect is running too close to the edge... If this happened with any regularity to a particular outfitter, how long before they'd pull his license? Pretty quickly... judges will suspend bad performers pretty quick, which is why I linked the site to check for that... but there really aren't that many examples to say what quickly means.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,499
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,499 |
With this sheep tag I got I hit up all my buds that been sheep hunting for yrs to help judge and sure in the hell not trying to count rings. Sitka almost sent you a pm and pulled you out of retirement 😁
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,708
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,708 |
Outfitter/guide got away to easy with only a 50% refund. You paid for a service, their knowledge, and they failed getting your buddy in some hot water and otherwise destroying a memorable experience.At the very least there should be payment made for the trips total expense. From leaving home to returning with associated expenses. If I was a judge or a member of a jury I'd give you all of that plus extra for mental duress.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
Outfitter/guide got away to easy with only a 50% refund. You paid for a service, their knowledge, and they failed getting your buddy in some hot water and otherwise destroying a memorable experience.At the very least there should be payment made for the trips total expense. From leaving home to returning with associated expenses. If I was a judge or a member of a jury I'd give you all of that plus extra for mental duress. I agree, but need a more complete understanding of the guide's MO to truly comment...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,112
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,112 |
This is just my personal opinion and more knowledge of the situation may be revealing, but...
The guy behind the gun has the final responsibility for pulling the trigger and having some
knowledge of what he is embarking on.
I don't think the guide service needs to be skinned alive, but does share probably half of the blame.
More specifics may change the whole scenario.
Tiim
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
Albert Einstein
At Khe Sanh a sign read "For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected never knew".
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,842
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,842 |
Outfitter/guide got away to easy with only a 50% refund. You paid for a service, their knowledge, and they failed getting your buddy in some hot water and otherwise destroying a memorable experience.At the very least there should be payment made for the trips total expense. From leaving home to returning with associated expenses. If I was a judge or a member of a jury I'd give you all of that plus extra for mental duress. Absolutely. I also wonder what responsibility the state of Alaska has for issuing him a guide license and then forcing non-residents to hire him.
Quando omni flunkus moritati
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
This is just my personal opinion and more knowledge of the situation may be revealing, but...
The guy behind the gun has the final responsibility for pulling the trigger and having some
knowledge of what he is embarking on.
I don't think the guide service needs to be skinned alive, but does share probably half of the blame.
More specifics may change the whole scenario.
Tiim Marginal sheep are very hard to judge and it is obvious they knew the sheep was not big enough to be legal. The other side of the legal coin is 8 years of age makes them legal, regardless the curl. The guide chose to put them on sheep and have them shoot based on age. BW shot a sheep here and when we brought it into ADF&G they aged the two horns at two different ages! In hand they could not tell! They say you should not shoot rams based on age because it is too hard to tell at distance. They are also prone to growing false annual rings if they get hurt. They are also required to use a guide... A guide the State sets rigid guidelines on to ensure people get what they pay for. Does any of that make you want to put a greater part of the blame on the guide?
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
Outfitter/guide got away to easy with only a 50% refund. You paid for a service, their knowledge, and they failed getting your buddy in some hot water and otherwise destroying a memorable experience.At the very least there should be payment made for the trips total expense. From leaving home to returning with associated expenses. If I was a judge or a member of a jury I'd give you all of that plus extra for mental duress. Absolutely. I also wonder what responsibility the state of Alaska has for issuing him a guide license and then forcing non-residents to hire him. Probably none based on the required guide-client contract... The State will not even refund money for licenses and tags if they close seasons and that sort of thing...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 220
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 220 |
A lot of WOW going on in this thread. Mistakes happen, but some things don't seem on the up and up.
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Posts: 99
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,112
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
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The best decisions are made with the most information.
This is one occasion where I and others have jumped in with our 2 cents with minimal knowledge.
When everyone shares the all the information, it is usual to share a common opinion of resolution.
At least it worked that way in manufacturing for 40 years.
Still more to know here, but I retract my comments on grounds of insufficient evidence on my part.
It is between the players here to come to resolution.
Again just my opinion.
Tim
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
Albert Einstein
At Khe Sanh a sign read "For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected never knew".
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,023
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,023 |
As one who's gone on a guided sheep hunt, I was going to comment on your previous post. Learning to judge sheep at spotting scope distances is not easy unless you do it a lot, so if it was up to the average guided hunter from the lower 48, very very few could do it with rams that were close. So if it truly was the hunter's responsibility that would make for a lot of problems.
A big part of what I was paying the guide for (besides putting me on a legal ram) was that experience and knowledge. And I'm 100% certain that he wouldn't have deferred to my judgment on calling a legal ram because 1) I'm not qualified to make that call; and 2) it's his job to make that call. And from what I could tell, it's something that most guides take a lot of pride in.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,708 |
I've been on 4 guided sheep hunts. It is absolutely the responsibility of your guide to make the call whether a ram is legal or not. If the guide made the call (which it seems he did by the ops testimony) than the problem is his and his alone. It's different when hunting unguided, then yes it is the guy behind the trigger who takes the responsibility. This is a commercial service you paid for (lots of money to hunt sheep) and not someone who was just there as a volunteer. Mistake(?) these guys are paid not to make a mistake. Much like a doctor who botches up a surgery, as such the need for malpractice insurance. Get back in full what you're due and don't be shy. You were in a business scenario and were damaged by said guides (mistake?).
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,112
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,112 |
Just MY opinion again.
I have never had a guide make a call for me--- to shoot ----or not to shoot.
BUT if I had I would expect to share some of the responsibility.
On a tough decision (as this is being labeled) I would be on my spotting scope also and had some conversation before shooting. I may
also go with the guides opinion, and he may be wrong. Sort it out from there.
I have always wanted to go on a sheep hunt myself, but $ and age have now taken that dream away from me.
I do feel for these guys for the end result of a dream.
Tim
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
Albert Einstein
At Khe Sanh a sign read "For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected never knew".
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