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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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No such thing as a failure, if you know how to reload..... Agreed. I've killed a lot of deer with my 7SAUM failure. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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Campfire Outfitter
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I don't mean to nitpick at the master, but didn't the 270 WIN come out after WWI?
Personally, I think it's an AF even if it is an IS, but still. . .
Also I thought the premise of this whole thread was that all the SAUMs were AF's.
Last edited by shaman; 03/03/18.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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How are the 307, 356 and 375 Winchester not considered absolute failures.. sure they have a cult following but those three died a slow death..
Last edited by 79S; 03/03/18.
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I don't mean to nitpick at the master, but didn't the 270 WIN come out after WWI?
Personally, I think it's an AF even if it is an IS, but still. . .
You got to be [bleep] me? 1925 the 270 Winchester was introduced in the brand new Winchester model 54.. Good thing folks don’t listen to you saying it’s a failure lol.. hell the 280 Remington can be considered a AF how many times has that cartridge been revived.. The 270 is probably one of the easiest cartridges to load for h4831, Cci 200 and pick a bullet..
Last edited by 79S; 03/03/18.
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Campfire Regular
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Mostly due to the trendiness of the fickle consumer. Once the shooting industry plateaued in the innovation arena, there wasn't really a need, so the shooting industry attempted to make something new. Short magnums, high B.C. bullets and fast twist have all been introduced as a new concept. The real truth of the matter resides in the fact that the 243, 270 and 30-06 still account for the most animal deaths in a year and they have been doing that for over a century.
338 Lapua, 260 Remington, 6.5 Creed are past and current examples of nothing really new in the industry, but look at the people that lined up to buy them.
I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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That's what I mean. Mister Mule Deer specifically said introduced after WWI.
It's the whole gay thing that makes 270 WIN an AF. However, I think it deserves to be on the list. Maybe we can give it a an (GF) rating or just an (*)
Last edited by shaman; 03/03/18.
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One other edit: I'd put the 257 Roberts in there on the Remington side of the ledger.
EDIT: Which is it WWI or WWII that we're using as a cutoff? I see two mentions of WWII and a third where Mule Deer says the list was compiled from cartridges after WWI.
Last edited by shaman; 03/03/18.
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Campfire Regular
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Case capacity:
300 WSM 79.0
300 SAUM 72.7
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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5sdad,
I knew somebody would bring up the .221 Fireball. It was introduced as a handgun round, not a rifle cartridge. Eventually it became more succesful as rifle round, but the initial marketing was done as a handgun round.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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shaman,
The only .270 on the list is the .270 WSM, which appeared in the 21st century.
The one reference to WWI was obviously a typographical error, since the other two mentions are WWII. I just corrected it.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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OP
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shaman,
The only .270 on the list is the .270 WSM, which appeared in the 21st century. What is your thought on that making it to IS? I know in recent years that its sales have come very close to .300 WSM sales, and it seems to have become firmly entrenched as a legitimate .270 "magnum" that enjoys lots of factory loadings and just about every factory hunting rifles is chambered for it. The .270 Roy (which is a truly great hunting cartridge, BTW) has never achieved anything near that.
What could be a sadder way to end a life than to die having never hunted with great dogs, good friends and your family?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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SKane,
I've probably killed more big game with the 7mm SAUM than 99% of the people who've owned one. That doesn't mean it wasn't a commercial failure for Remington, the reason it's very difficult to find Remington-brand 7mm SAUM brass: They decided to cut their losses.
It's also why Norma and Nosler started offering 7mm SAUM cases. In fact, whenever the original manufacturer gives up on a cartridge so much that other companies start offering brass, it's sure sign the original company was losing money on it.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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5sdad,
I knew somebody would bring up the .221 Fireball. It was introduced as a handgun round, not a rifle cartridge. Eventually it became more succesful as rifle round, but the initial marketing was done as a handgun round. Not picking nits, but the .256 Winchester Magnum was listed, so I thought it might balance things out a bit. Best, John
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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One other edit: I'd put the 257 Roberts in there on the Remington side of the ledger. shaman,
The only .270 on the list is the .270 WSM, which appeared in the 21st century.
The one reference to WWI was obviously a typographical error, since the other two mentions are WWII. I just corrected it. Well, if it was THAT obvious, then I should probably go take a nap. I get like this on the weekends now.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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seattlesetters,
I'd upgrade the .270 WSM to IS if it ever becomes a common world-wide chambering, like the .243 Winchester, 7mm Remington Magnum, and .300 WSM. So far as I know Tikka is the only European company to chamber the .270 WSM, but Tikka is essentially an American company, since they sell the vast majority of their rifles in the U.S.A.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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There is often a gap between real world advantages and theoretical advantages. Sometimes that gap is pretty obvious.
Most of the "new magnums" show little advantage in the game fields over what we have had form between 60 and 110 years, and the cost of a new rifles and insultingly high prices of the ammo has the effect of making 99% of the shooters out here say, "Nahh....... I'll keep what I have".
"New and improved" is usually new in some way but very seldom an improvement anywhere but in the gun-magazine pages.
It's really more of a sales pitch than an advantage.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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shaman,
Good try, but the .257 Roberts was introduced by Remington as a commercial cartridge in 1934.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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John,
The .256 Winchester Magnum was introduced almost simultaneously in the Ruger Hawkeye single-shot pistol and Marlin 62 Levermatic rifle. The Ruger came out a little before the Marlin, but apparently Marlin was planning to chamber the .256 from the beginning. It was a money-loser in both firearms, the reason I picked a nit and listed it.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I still think of it, along with many of the "orphaned" rounds, as being interesting (hell, I even think that the .22 Jet is interesting) and am glad that they exist. If somewhat strange, unremarkable, and rather ignored in general were reasons to not exist I'd be in real trouble. Thanks for the additional information. Best, John
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Campfire Tracker
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OK, so I realize this is Remington we’re talking about, so there’s that. But why did two really good cartridges fail?
Ammo too expensive?
Silly name?
Too much competition at 7mm and 30 cal?
Wrong rifles or twists?
IMHO, the SAUMs have a great blend of performance, balanced case size and configuration, and they both do a very good job of being able to extract a great deal of performance while also coming in at or under recoil-tolerance thresholds much better than their competitors. I like them better in almost every way than the 7mm WSM and 300 WSM and like them better in absolutely every way than the old standby 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag. In fact, I’d say a hunter equipped with an accurate, 22-24” sporter 7 SAUM (if it was popular) would be well-equipped for just about anything. And the case could have been used to create and commercially introduce many more useful variants from .24 - .35 c
I feel the combination of very expensive factory ammo and a stupid name did them in. In a time when newer shooters were far more open to common sense in cartridge design and performance (see: 7mm-08 then 6.5 Creedmoor), Remington decides to name a short cartridge an “Ultra Magnum.” I know I really didn’t give it much of a look because of that name.
What does the ‘Fire think? They served no purpose and were simply Me Too cartridges. There are no gaps in calibers, cartridges or animals. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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