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The problem with me and the .243/.270 combo is I could never do it because of my own inherent biases. Even though my biases may or may not be set in reality, they are there and I must live with them.
The first is I believe any two- rifle battery, whether it’s one where those are your only two rifles or if it is two rifles you’re taking on one hunting trip, must be reasonable backups for each other for all required tasks. I have an inherent bias against .24 cal rifles for game larger than deer and Pronghorn so I could not see it being a reasonable backup to a .270. I realize this may be wrong of me, especially when I’d have no qualms about a .25-06 serving in such a role. Oh, well....
Next, I have an inherent bias against using cartridges of large capacity (think long-action and based on the .30-06 case) for any type of varmint shooting. I would never consider a .270 a reasonable backup to a .243 (or, better yet, a .223) for whacking coyotes.
This is why it would be difficult for me to have a two-rifle battery for everything, even though I rarely shoot varmints anymore.
I could get by with a .223, 6.5 Creedmoor and .270 Win and still meet all your criteria except the need for only two rifles. As a hand loader, I could substitute the .270 with a .280AI but am not entirely sure why I would, given the ubiquitous nature of the .270, as I am finding myself traveling to destinations with limited hunting time to be more of the norm rather than hunting long, local seasons.
What could be a sadder way to end a life than to die having never hunted with great dogs, good friends and your family?
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You shouldn't need a backup unless you're shooting varmints at a high rate and heating up barrels.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Mine is 6.5CM and 280AI.
I'll probably add a 223, though I really have no use for one. That’s the chicken dinner, right there. ^^^^^ The problem with me and the .243/.270 combo is I could never do it because of my own inherent biases. Even though my biases may or may not be set in reality, they are there and I must live with them.
The first is I believe any two- rifle battery, whether it’s one where those are your only two rifles or if it is two rifles you’re taking on one hunting trip, must be reasonable backups for each other for all required tasks. I have an inherent bias against .24 cal rifles for game larger than deer and Pronghorn so I could not see it being a reasonable backup to a .270. I realize this may be wrong of me, especially when I’d have no qualms about a .25-06 serving in such a role. Oh, well....
Next, I have an inherent bias against using cartridges of large capacity (think long-action and based on the .30-06 case) for any type of varmint shooting. I would never consider a .270 a reasonable backup to a .243 (or, better yet, a .223) for whacking coyotes.
This is why it would be difficult for me to have a two-rifle battery for everything, even though I rarely shoot varmints anymore.
I could get by with a .223, 6.5 Creedmoor and .270 Win and still meet all your criteria except the need for only two rifles. As a hand loader, I could substitute the .270 with a .280AI but am not entirely sure why I would, given the ubiquitous nature of the .270, as I am finding myself traveling to destinations with limited hunting time to be more of the norm rather than hunting long, local seasons. I like the 6.5CM and 280AI combo a lot, but would still add a couple more rifles to the battery. A 223 on the bottom for varmints, and a 30-06 (or 300WM) on top as a backup rifle, with available ammo anywhere, and heavier bullets when needed.
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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How about .240 wby and 280 ai? That should cost a few bucks...literally.
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A less plebeian combo could be a 240 and 270 Weatherby but not necessarily in the W\Mk 5 Chassis.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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That would work well, but I'd substitute the 7Wby for the 270.
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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I like your original choices just fine but most of the cartridges mentioned so far fail to meet criteria #1. If it is truly all about the velocity you need to be looking at a combo along the lines of a 26 Nosler/6.5-300wby and a 7 RUM/7 STW. I'd prefer the 6.5-06 and 280 AI personally but it is not all about the velocity for me.
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243 and 7mm mag. The velocity is there and ammo is commonly available. If you want a bit more back-up one with the other capability, you could go 6.5 Creed and 7 mag. Living in a foreign country, I don't know what the Creed ammo availability is these days. RJ
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Muzzle velocity doesn't mean anything. Impact velocity is what matters. When you look at from that perspective 25-06 doesn't look so good. A 243 will shoot similar bullet weights about 100-150 fps slower than 25-06, but will pass the 25-06 loads at about 200 yards. Or you can shoot a bullet about 10 gr lighter to the same MV. By the time it is at 200 yards it is significantly faster. No animal will ever notice the difference between 10 gr bullet weight or .014" greater bullet diameter.
And too much speed CAN be a bad thing. Most bullets, especially the non-premium bullets you seem to be interested in, perform best with an impact velocity between 2800 down to about 1800 fps. Impact speeds greater than 2800 fps often result in bullet failures. Below 1800 fps and they often don't expand. When shooting bullets in excess of 3000 fps at the muzzle it is quite common for them to fail up close
One of the big advantages of the 6.5 Creedmoor is that it starts 140ish gr bullets at 2700-2800 fps, and retains the 1800 fps minimum out past 600 yards. The fast 6.5's such as the 26 Nosler are shooting those bullets faster than they were designed to impact up close. They do add another 150 yards of useful range past 600 yards. But how many will shoot past 600 yards.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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yeah, but... 243 and 270 are so... ... ... common. Yes... Common, AND, they work... The problem with me and the .243/.270 combo is I could never do it because of my own inherent biases. Even though my biases may or may not be set in reality, they are there and I must live with them.
The first is I believe any two- rifle battery, whether it’s one where those are your only two rifles or if it is two rifles you’re taking on one hunting trip, must be reasonable backups for each other for all required tasks. I have an inherent bias against .24 cal rifles for game larger than deer and Pronghorn so I could not see it being a reasonable backup to a .270. I realize this may be wrong of me, especially when I’d have no qualms about a .25-06 serving in such a role. Oh, well....
Next, I have an inherent bias against using cartridges of large capacity (think long-action and based on the .30-06 case) for any type of varmint shooting. I would never consider a .270 a reasonable backup to a .243 (or, better yet, a .223) for whacking coyotes.
This is why it would be difficult for me to have a two-rifle battery for everything, even though I rarely shoot varmints anymore.
I could get by with a .223, 6.5 Creedmoor and .270 Win and still meet all your criteria except the need for only two rifles. As a hand loader, I could substitute the .270 with a .280AI but am not entirely sure why I would, given the ubiquitous nature of the .270, as I am finding myself traveling to destinations with limited hunting time to be more of the norm rather than hunting long, local seasons. You must be a rifle looney. Way over analyzed... 
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
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Numbers don't lie... ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/66973.jpeg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/66974.jpeg)
Last edited by 16bore; 03/03/18.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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For a practical soul, I've always thought the 243 and 270 were the ideal battery for Western hunting...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Seems to work in the east too😉
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Living in a foreign country, I don't know what the Creed ammo availability is these days. RJ It's isn't up there with the availability champ the .308 or the runner-up 30-06 but the 6.5 Creedmoor is chomping at the heels of the .243 and .270 Win. In the stores I frequent and in many online sites, I'd say it has pretty much passed every other standard cartridge for availability. Maybe the 7mm RM and 300 WM would be close, as well.
What could be a sadder way to end a life than to die having never hunted with great dogs, good friends and your family?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Scroll through the list at Midway and it'll show the number of offerings for 6.5CM
243=59
270=64
6.5 CM=42
7-08=33
308=153
30-06=125
25-06=29
That's pretty substantial in my opinion.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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7RM=69
300WM = 88
For conversation.
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369 |
OP here, and i should be more specific:
with respect to speed, i mean the fav bullet of choice has to easily reach 3000 fps... easily...
with respect to ammo availability, your fav bullet has to be in a factory cartridge as well, and has to be easily obtainable online, and hopefully not $50 a box...
25/06 and 280 make sense to me in the M700 because they are both long action... which means once you have a setup you like, both rifles are set that way... and you can mod the M700 a thousand ways til the cows come home...
and i just don't see the need for a 30 when you want to hit 3000 fps in a rifle setup comfortable to hunt that doesn-t beat you silly.
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Numbers don't lie... I'm not all that familiar with the .243 but the 25-06 should be able to hit 3350 fps with 100's. That lessens the drop and windage (10mph) by about 6" at 500 yds. The drop doesn't mean much but I'll take the 25% advantage in wind holds. There's also the fact that the 25-06 has 1.5 times the energy than the .243 ballistics posted above at 500. The numbers don't lie but if that is what the .243 is capable of, the .25-06 has a discernable advantage. The 25 BC's can't touch the 6 mm's but inside of 500 yards, the speed that a 25-06 can impart on stubby bullet can overcome a lot of it's lack of sleekness. Out at long range, it is better to start out with a slower, slipperier bullet.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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That's just looking apples vs apples factory fodder. Lots can be done with a press. OP here, and i should be more specific:
with respect to speed, i mean the fav bullet of choice has to easily reach 3000 fps... easily...
with respect to ammo availability, your fav bullet has to be in a factory cartridge as well, and has to be easily obtainable online, and hopefully not $50 a box...
25/06 and 280 make sense to me in the M700 because they are both long action... which means once you have a setup you like, both rifles are set that way... and you can mod the M700 a thousand ways til the cows come home...
and i just don't see the need for a 30 when you want to hit 3000 fps in a rifle setup comfortable to hunt that doesn-t beat you silly. Between those two, I'm 270 all day. Especially since Barnes is going to load 129 LRX factory ammo. Wish they'd throw 110's back in the loop. Stuff won't be $20/box, but there's quite a bit that is.
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