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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
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I killed more barn yard animals by the time I was 14 than any hunter here has killed game except perhaps a professional pest shooter, cattle, pigs, goats, poultry, rabbits for a meat processor. hands or club for the smaller stuff and 22 shorts for the livestock. Only animal I couldn't kill was an old range bull my dad's friend bought at auction and brought to our p[lace for us to kill and butcher. It had grown a skull cap ridge so thick and complete I couldn't put a short into the brain. Dad had to go get his '06, cause that's all he had besides a 12 ga.
Also been killing game since I was 7 and was allowed to tote a 22 and 410, nothing different.
Killing part is easy and it's not about numbers.
I'm sure my wife will kill another elk with her 708 and 120bts shooting through the shoulders and putting it on the ground this year.
Kent
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Campfire Member
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22 shorts for the livestock. Only animal I couldn't kill was an old range bull my dad's friend bought at auction and brought to our p[lace for us to kill and butcher. It had grown a skull cap ridge so thick and complete I couldn't put a short into the brain. Dad had to go get his '06, cause that's all he had besides a 12 ga.
Totally agree. .22 is great on cattle at point blank range.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Not if you don't know what you are doing or guessing.
Kent
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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Often I can't believe the stuff supposedly experienced hunters worry about on the Campfire. This thread is perfect example. The .30-06 would be plenty with 150-grain monometal bullets of any brand. So would plenty of smaller rounds. First off I didn't set the rule on one of the state's web sites. Neither did any of the states. Colorado Parks & Wildlife check out the link http://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/EHU-CH2-L09.aspxThe general consensus is that for a broadside shot on an elk you need 1,200 foot-pounds of energy and at least 2,000 foot-pounds for any quartering shot. Quartering Shot Placement A quartering shot when the animal is partially facing you is the most challenging shot. You have to penetrate heavy, dense muscle tissue and the heavy bone structure of the shoulder and then still have enough bullet and energy left to destroy the vital organs. Yes I would be one of those hunters that agree. And yes I have shot so many animals there is no way I could count them all. I have been hunting for over 40 years. Have hunted with many calibers. I stand behind everything I said earlier. For those of you who think 150 grain bullet out of 06 is great 400 yard cartridge. I think you better study your ballistics cause 06 will not carry 2000 lbs energy out to 400 yards with any bullet. If you chose the 150 grain bullet out of the 06 you must hunt where there is no wind cause it sure wouldn't be my choice. Don't see to many long range shooters choosing the .308 150 grain bullet for long range. I'd take a .277 150 grain at 3000 fps or the .284 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps long before I'd chose the .308 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps. The .243 is a great long range elk cartridge. Good one. This thread is pretty hilarious though. God Bless!!! Do you know the difference between a rule and one man's opinion? Here is the rule in Colorado, it's from the same link you posted, you must have missed it: "To legally hunt elk with a rifle in Colorado, you must use a rifle that fires expanding bullets with a minimum caliber of .24 cal. or 6mm, a minimum weight of 85 grains that delivers at least 1,000 ft. lbs. of energy at 100 yards." So now that we know what the rule is let's look at that opinion you posted above. The author of that piece says it's "the general consensus" but did you notice he didn't back that up with any information or say who that consensus was gathered from? If that's what you want to believe, that's your prerogative, just don't call it a rule. It's not even "the consensus" here, as you can see. And your comment about the .243 being incapable of killing elk at long range is funny too. I don't believe that would be the consensus amongst these gentlemen, who used the 6 mm. Creedmoor for their elk: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12675774/1/meat-run
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
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If that's what you want to believe, that's your prerogative, just don't call it a rule. It's not even "the consensus" here, as you can see. I'll add a bit here.....the rule was already covered in the caliber and 100 yard energy requirement. The rest is simply bullet placement. Here in Nebraska we have a similar rule, but for deer, and our law allows .224 diameter bullets. That said everyone I've hunted with or even visited with at check in stations use plenty of gun......the .25-06 becoming very popular locally. Wisconsin has an extremely simple rule.....any centerfire except .17 caliber....possibly excluding .204 as well now....but no one I've encountered hunting there uses anything less than a .243.....most hunters overwhelmingly just seem to know what to use...laws seem moot. In nearly 60 years of hunting I've never seen anyone using inadequate firearms for the game being hunted......welllll....there was one guy that shot a very fine eight point Minnesota whitetail with a .410 slug.....shot placement was his saving grace.... From my own personal experience, if there is a consensus, most all hunters tend to use more than enough gun....and some much more. .
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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On the other hand, there are more than a few very good hunters who post here regularly, and use .223's for their deer. "Using enough gun" is fine and dandy right up to the point where it's not just your personal preference, but something you (not you personally) preach that others should follow suit.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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There's woods smarts or cut&paste smarts...
Kent
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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On the other hand, there are more than a few very good hunters who post here regularly, and use .223's for their deer. . I once used a .222 Rem for deer in Texas.....It was a sako L-461 with a very special barrel.....at 16 1/4" and shot quite well.....It accounted for several one shot kills....all at about 100 yards and using 50 grain soft points.....(and yes....it was legal)....and no, there was no deer lost to it. Since then I graduated to the .25-06 for deer...... My father once killed three deer near Tofte Minnesota with a .25-20 with three shots from his M-92 Winchester.....and that was in 1932 when that cartridge was legal in Minnesota....it's not now.....He then used a .303 Savage and later graduated to a .308 Winchester.....certainly more than enough. Foot pounds of energy will never replace the requirement for shot placement.....and I've never read anything about states requiring proof of hunters ability to shoot......oh.....one more thing.....I've never read or known of anyone arrested and fined for using a firearm less than the required....it seems to be one of those unenforced "rules"......which means it really don't exist.....and further, I've never heard of anyone even checked for such an infraction....one could hunt elk with a Red Ryder BB gun if he chose.....FINE.....just don't shoot their eye out!.....LMAO
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
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There's woods smarts or cut&paste smarts...
Kent So true. It's never not amusing to get a lecture from someone on a subject they have no experience with. Adams posts only further make the point; "Not all opinions are equal." Not that anyone here needed that reminder...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2012
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Often I can't believe the stuff supposedly experienced hunters worry about on the Campfire. This thread is perfect example. The .30-06 would be plenty with 150-grain monometal bullets of any brand. So would plenty of smaller rounds. First off I didn't set the rule on one of the state's web sites. Neither did any of the states. Colorado Parks & Wildlife check out the link http://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/EHU-CH2-L09.aspxThe general consensus is that for a broadside shot on an elk you need 1,200 foot-pounds of energy and at least 2,000 foot-pounds for any quartering shot. Quartering Shot Placement A quartering shot when the animal is partially facing you is the most challenging shot. You have to penetrate heavy, dense muscle tissue and the heavy bone structure of the shoulder and then still have enough bullet and energy left to destroy the vital organs. Yes I would be one of those hunters that agree. And yes I have shot so many animals there is no way I could count them all. I have been hunting for over 40 years. Have hunted with many calibers. I stand behind everything I said earlier. For those of you who think 150 grain bullet out of 06 is great 400 yard cartridge. I think you better study your ballistics cause 06 will not carry 2000 lbs energy out to 400 yards with any bullet. If you chose the 150 grain bullet out of the 06 you must hunt where there is no wind cause it sure wouldn't be my choice. Don't see to many long range shooters choosing the .308 150 grain bullet for long range. I'd take a .277 150 grain at 3000 fps or the .284 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps long before I'd chose the .308 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps. The .243 is a great long range elk cartridge. Good one. This thread is pretty hilarious though. God Bless!!! Agreed. Just might be the best post in this thread.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
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Often I can't believe the stuff supposedly experienced hunters worry about on the Campfire. This thread is perfect example. The .30-06 would be plenty with 150-grain monometal bullets of any brand. So would plenty of smaller rounds. First off I didn't set the rule on one of the state's web sites. Neither did any of the states. Colorado Parks & Wildlife check out the link http://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/EHU-CH2-L09.aspxThe general consensus is that for a broadside shot on an elk you need 1,200 foot-pounds of energy and at least 2,000 foot-pounds for any quartering shot. Quartering Shot Placement A quartering shot when the animal is partially facing you is the most challenging shot. You have to penetrate heavy, dense muscle tissue and the heavy bone structure of the shoulder and then still have enough bullet and energy left to destroy the vital organs. Yes I would be one of those hunters that agree. And yes I have shot so many animals there is no way I could count them all. I have been hunting for over 40 years. Have hunted with many calibers. I stand behind everything I said earlier. For those of you who think 150 grain bullet out of 06 is great 400 yard cartridge. I think you better study your ballistics cause 06 will not carry 2000 lbs energy out to 400 yards with any bullet. If you chose the 150 grain bullet out of the 06 you must hunt where there is no wind cause it sure wouldn't be my choice. Don't see to many long range shooters choosing the .308 150 grain bullet for long range. I'd take a .277 150 grain at 3000 fps or the .284 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps long before I'd chose the .308 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps. The .243 is a great long range elk cartridge. Good one. This thread is pretty hilarious though. God Bless!!! Thanks for the laugh!
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Campfire Tracker
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30/06 with 168 TTSX. If you plan on going over 300 yards, 168 holds its velocity better compared to the 150 the further you.
I think 168 is perfect for the 06. and its what I shoot as well.
I have the 9.3 and would have no problem shooting an elk out past 300, but I feel it is un necessary.
Shot placement/accuracy and less recoil is why Id choose the 06 for me.
Now if we were talking moose, I'd say the 9.3 Hands down.
Last edited by Dre; 03/10/18.
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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there was a comment buried in here about the 30.06 and not good in long distance.
funny,
i have a converted rock island 1903 that has a one inch bull barrel on it. had an action job, all jeweled, pretty rifle. set up for la palma iron sights with a bunch of different sight reticules.
the guy that owned it was probably in his time in the top ten shooters at camp perry. I don't think he built that rifle for 100yard shooting.
I got another one, which i have fired yet, remington action on a one inch barrel, single shooter, in 300H&H, also set up for the same kind of sights.
My experience is not anywhere as complete as others such as kent, but i have killed elk with a 338winmag, a 300win mag, and the last one with a 30.06 and a barnes bullets. The other consideration is i have never had to fire past 100 yards. The 30.06 with that barnes bullet in it was pretty awesome.
I always think when i see this subject of a question i asked at wolfe publishing when i was hanging around there and basically poor. What rifle to buy? "They suggested a 30.06 in a left hand action. This comment was what they said "All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well." it only took me 40 years or so to figure that out after buying a lot of rifles.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
there was a comment buried in here about the 30.06 and not good in long distance.
funny,
i have a converted rock island 1903 that has a one inch bull barrel on it. had an action job, all jeweled, pretty rifle. set up for la palma iron sights with a bunch of different sight reticules.
the guy that owned it was probably in his time in the top ten shooters at camp perry. I don't think he built that rifle for 100yard shooting.
I got another one, which i have not fired yet, remington action on a one inch barrel, single shooter, in 300H&H, also set up for the same kind of sights.
My experience is not anywhere as complete as others such as kent, but i have killed elk with a 338winmag, a 300win mag, and the last one with a 30.06 and a barnes bullets. The other consideration is i have never had to fire past 100 yards. The 30.06 with that barnes bullet in it was pretty awesome.
I always think when i see this subject of a question i asked at wolfe publishing when i was hanging around there and basically poor. What rifle to buy? "They suggested a 30.06 in a left hand action. This comment was what they said "All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well." it only took me 40 years or so to figure that out after buying a lot of rifles.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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+1 Yes with the much improved bullets manufactured by Barnes, a hunter doesnt need that much rifle anymore. Harvested many moose,elk with 06 but then again if you want to reach out a little further you may need more rifle. Not knocking long range shooting 06 but those rifles arent shooting hunting bullets per say.
Last edited by 378Canuck; 03/10/18.
It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
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Campfire Ranger
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Watch out Creed! Magnumitis is flaring back up, like a bad case of hemorrhoids.
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Campfire Tracker
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Wonder why they built them? I guess they become safe queens now LOL
It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
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Campfire Regular
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"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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