Seriously thinking of getting my 30-06 rebored to 338-06. My goal is to shoot 225 gr bullets at elk in the timber. Looking at the 210 Swift Scirrocco, 225 Partition, 225 Accubond.
How have these bullets, and others you've guys have used, worked on elk size critters?
I have only used the 210gr NPT and TSX on elk with no issues at all. I also used the 225gr Bearclaw on two elk in the late 90's out of a 338Win Mag.
With that being said, I do not see the need for a 225gr in a 338-06 on elk. Unless you want to, just because.
When my next 338-06 project is finished, My bullet choices will be as follows: 210gr TTSX 210gr TSX 210gr NPT In that order.
If none of those work I will move on to the 200gr Nosler ballistic silvertip. I met a gentleman and his daughter that used the 180gr NBT on two bison with no issues. I am thinking a 200gr will work just fine.
BWinters, if you decide to go with 225 Partitions I have a bunch I likely won’t use and will make you a good deal on. They shoot well with RL17 or H4350 in my 338-06.
Yes I did buy a 280 AI - I'm looking for a bigger hammer without going to a mag of some type. I find myself hunting elk in the timber. The last 3-4 I've killed have been in the timber and 50 yards or less. I'd do a 9.3 all day except I don't have enough meat in my 30-06 barrel to do a re-bore.................
I think a 280 AI shooting 160 NAB at 2950 and a 338-06 shooting 225 NPT or equivalent would make a good pair of rifles for about anything on earth except the really big bitey/stompem/gore 'em to death types. I could call the pair "Near" and "Far". <G>
I’ve taken 1 bull with the 210 Swift, a couple Elk with the 210 Partitions. The 225 Partitions and Accubonds have been used by some buddies I’ve hunted with and work well.
I hear what you’re saying about the 210 not being much different than a 200 in a 30-06. I used them cause they were accurate and carried just fine out to 500. The Swift is an excellent Bullet as is that Partition.
This was the 210 Swift from this years little bull. Shot was 150 yards, crushed the near side leg bone, found it dug into the hide on the far side.
Decent BC on it as well. Very accurate in my 338 Win at 2950.
I have never recovered a 338 caliber 210 or 225gr in any elk I have shot. With the exception of a 210gr NPT that was stopped on the off side by the lower leg bone of a bedded elk.
I have played with 180-275gr out of 338-06's and have settled on the 200-210gr weight class. Real world velocities with the 200gr class have been from 2725 to 2850.
I have owned them in Remington, Winchester, Kimber, Springfield, VZ24, Montana variations. My current and last build is on a Model 70 classic, Mickey edge, Shilen #3 1:9 twist at 23", threaded for a suppressor. This one will not be sold!
I have been hoping for a friend of mine to sell another model 70 back to me that I sold in a moment of weakness. This one has a fwt contour barrel and factory fwt wood stock. Never should have sold it.
bwinters===== I had a Ruger 30-06 ultralight rebored to 9.3 . the original muzzle O.D. diameter was .500, and still is. The rifle is a pleasure to carry all day elk hunting and the bull elk I've taken with the 325gr Norma oryx bullet reacted as though they we hit by a train. I don't believe there is a production gun with a slimmer contour barrel than the Ruger RL . Send your rifle to JES reboring in Oregon 4 lands, 1in 12 twist, you won't be disappointed in the accuracy or results on critters for a non belted cartridge. Good Hunting Lj
HB - I had one of them - they have a really thin barrel contour. I'm surprised he did it. I talked to him yesterday about my Kimber. I have enough meat for a 338 but doubt enough to do a 358 or 9.3.
I’ve taken 1 bull with the 210 Swift, a couple Elk with the 210 Partitions. The 225 Partitions and Accubonds have been used by some buddies I’ve hunted with and work well.
I hear what you’re saying about the 210 not being much different than a 200 in a 30-06. I used them cause they were accurate and carried just fine out to 500. The Swift is an excellent Bullet as is that Partition.
This was the 210 Swift from this years little bull. Shot was 150 yards, crushed the near side leg bone, found it dug into the hide on the far side.
Decent BC on it as well. Very accurate in my 338 Win at 2950.
Good stuff beretzs, I run the 210 gr Partitions to 2800 in my 338-06, have read here they should be fine for the OP's elk hunting concerns, that 210 SS-II at 2800 fps would be the nuts too!
I have used only 200-grain AccuBonds for elk in my .338-06s for the last ten years or so. Early on, I did kill one with a 225 A-Frame. Will be shooting a 185 TTSX this year just to try something different.
Ben
Some days it takes most of the day for me to do practically nothing...
Thanks guys. An interweb search indicates alot of guys use the 210 NPT and 210 Swift SC II on elk in both the 338-06 and its big brother.
It also looks like 2775 is possible with 210s and 2675 with 225s. With the high BC possible in both those weights, they shoot flat out to 400 yards which is farther than I plan to use this rig - but you never know when one will show up across the meadow.
If anyone wants to share their favorite 338-06 with 210 or 225 recipes, that'd be ok <G>
Some years back I made up a dummy round with a 210 Nosler in it and asked a 'smith to build a rifle around it. Only 210 Noslers have ever been fired in it. Seven Elk down, five one shot kills. It was made for my often deployed Grandson who can't hunt with it every year.
At the ranges I use them, the 225 Accubonds work really well with both my .338-06 and .35 Whelen Ai for Moose & Elk . Inside 300 yds the Accubond, with the tip cut off, is a different bullet. Accuracy isn't affected, they open faster and still provide more than adequate penetration plus, cutting the tip off allows an additional .020 in the magazine to get optimal seating depth in my rifles. Another good bullet is the Woodleigh 225 PPSN and of course, the 210 NP. All seem to do an excellent job at decent terminal velocities. It's always good to have options and I think the .338-06 is a good one.
When applied by competent people,with the right intent, common sense goes along wayt
Thanks guys. I considered the 210 - but what advantage does it have over a 30-06, 200 gr Partition at 2700?
I love my .338-06, but if you're looking to justify something "more" than a .30-06 with a 200 gr bullet, you need to go a lot bigger, IMO. I built mine to be the "big gun" companion to my 7mm-08 deer rifle. After churning more guns than I care to think about since I built the .338-06 back in 2002, I'm right back to my original thought! A 7mm-08 Montana and the .338-06 Mnt Rifle.
On a side note, do guys actually achieve 2700fps with 200grain bullets in the .30-06? I read that was very hard to do due to the long bearing surface. ???
Thanks guys. An interweb search indicates alot of guys use the 210 NPT and 210 Swift SC II on elk in both the 338-06 and its big brother.
It also looks like 2775 is possible with 210s and 2675 with 225s. With the high BC possible in both those weights, they shoot flat out to 400 yards which is farther than I plan to use this rig - but you never know when one will show up across the meadow.
If anyone wants to share their favorite 338-06 with 210 or 225 recipes, that'd be ok <G>
My good buddy runs the 210 Partition with RL15 in his 338-06.. I believe it runs an even 2750 and 22-250 accurate as well. Isn't much from the 185 TTSX up through a 225 whatever I wouldn't use in a 338 for hunting elk. Even with a set of Dots in the scope it should be danged easy to dope to at least 400 yards. The Swift/Partition/TTSX 210's are all I need for elk for the ranges I shoot. I just can't see anything doing a much better job than what any of those do.
On a side note, do guys actually achieve 2700fps with 200grain bullets in the .30-06? I read that was very hard to do due to the long bearing surface. ???
Thanks guys. I considered the 210 - but what advantage does it have over a 30-06, 200 gr Partition at 2700?
What really has an advantage over a .30-06 for 99% of big game hunting in North America? It will do just about anything any of us need. Everything else is just to keep things interesting.
That said, 200's at 2700 for is a pretty good push for a 30-06. My 338-06 AI gets 210 PTs going well over 2800 fps with ease. It's a little bit more of everything and more interesting.
Anyone ever try any of the Sierra 338 bullets on elk? The 215 is a light bullet for the 338 and the 225 should work as well. I've had really good luck with Sierras running at vels less than 2800.
Thanks guys. I considered the 210 - but what advantage does it have over a 30-06, 200 gr Partition at 2700?
I love my .338-06, but if you're looking to justify something "more" than a .30-06 with a 200 gr bullet, you need to go a lot bigger, IMO. I built mine to be the "big gun" companion to my 7mm-08 deer rifle. After churning more guns than I care to think about since I built the .338-06 back in 2002, I'm right back to my original thought! A 7mm-08 Montana and the .338-06 Mnt Rifle.
On a side note, do guys actually achieve 2700fps with 200grain bullets in the .30-06? I read that was very hard to do due to the long bearing surface. ???
Nosler shows 2688 fps with the 200g out of a 24" barrel. Pretty close.
On a side note, do guys actually achieve 2700fps with 200grain bullets in the .30-06? I read that was very hard to do due to the long bearing surface. ???
I've asked the same question.
I've done it with several 24" barreled 06's with RL-17 and 22, 200 gr Partitions or Accubonds, makes a really hard punching '06 to 500 yards, both bullets fly really well, accurate too.
I used W-W brass and CCI-250 primers, COL's ran 3.340"
225 NAB or SST, 2600/2650. Only slayed elk or seen em slayed a half dozen times with each. Both knocked ‘em f’n flat, EVERY time. Cows and bulls. It’s actually too much gun. A 260 or 6.5 creed will yield the same end result... a dead elk. Jumping thirty thousanths in bore diameter from .308 to .338, and backwards in SD, to shoot a weight already commonly available in the original diameter, at a similar velocity, is borderline retarded, at best.
Viable bullets in 338s start at 225, and go UP from there.
"Your range of experience runs that gamut from A to B, plus you're a nitwit. That's a hard combination to overcome, though some people try." - JB
Jumping thirty thousanths in bore diameter from .308 to .338, and backwards in SD, to shoot a weight already commonly available in the original diameter, at a similar velocity, isborderline retarded, at best.
So is 99% of the schit we talk about on here.
In the end, if it's interesting to a guy then it's worth doing. A 210 PT chugging along at 2700fsp isn't exactly going to bounce off an elk.
Anyone ever try any of the Sierra 338 bullets on elk? The 215 is a light bullet for the 338 and the 225 should work as well. I've had really good luck with Sierras running at vels less than 2800.
I actually heard the 215's were on the hard side, so never bothered trying them.
Some years back I made up a dummy round with a 210 Nosler in it and asked a 'smith to build a rifle around it. Only 210 Noslers have ever been fired in it. Seven Elk down, five one shot kills. It was made for my often deployed Grandson who can't hunt with it every year.
Tracks gave the answer I’d have given, and has the experience to back it up. When I had a 338-06 all it got fed was the 210 NP. That and a 200 NBT or NAB are what I’d run in it. When I used a 338 WM all it got fed was the 210 NP too... I believe, like the 270/130, it kills out of proportion to its “numbers”, and I never found it lacking on bull elk. My friend Dober swears by the 200 NBT in the 338-06 and has killed bull elk with it.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Anyone ever try any of the Sierra 338 bullets on elk? The 215 is a light bullet for the 338 and the 225 should work as well. I've had really good luck with Sierras running at vels less than 2800.
I actually heard the 215's were on the hard side, so never bothered trying them.
The Sierra guy said that as well.
I should have clarified my initial post on this. My concern is with bullet being too tough for 338-06 velocities. I'm assuming most 338 bullets are made for her 338 WM and run a couple hundred ft/sec faster than the 338-06.
Yes, that’s what Sierra says, but it still doesn’t make sense. The 215 didn’t open on dry magazines at 338-06 muzzle velocity. That’s not that far away with a winmag.
225 NAB or SST, 2600/2650. Only slayed elk or seen em slayed a half dozen times with each. Both knocked ‘em f’n flat, EVERY time. Cows and bulls. It’s actually too much gun. A 260 or 6.5 creed will yield the same end result... a dead elk. Jumping thirty thousanths in bore diameter from .308 to .338, and backwards in SD, to shoot a weight already commonly available in the original diameter, at a similar velocity, is borderline retarded, at best.
Viable bullets in 338s start at 225, and go UP from there.
Yea, a 185 TTSX at over 3000 FPS just wouldn’t work at all. Rolling eyes at stupid comments.
Yes, that’s what Sierra says, but it still doesn’t make sense. The 215 didn’t open on dry magazines at 338-06 muzzle velocity. That’s not that far away with a winmag.
Did you mean to say "didn't" open? If so, thats interesting.
Yes, that’s what Sierra says, but it still doesn’t make sense. The 215 didn’t open on dry magazines at 338-06 muzzle velocity. That’s not that far away with a winmag.
Did you mean to say "didn't" open? If so, thats interesting.
Correct. Fired through chrono directly into magazines. I don’t recall velocity. Mid 2600s? Left a .338ish hole through a couple feet of dry magazines and kept going into ground further than I decided to dig. Shot a second, same result. Needless to say I decided those weren’t going to work for hunting. I sent a note to Sierra. Their response was that it was designed for a winmag. Umm, ok... If so, I guess it’s only good to ~100yds.
I realize dry magazines are not great representation of animals. Maybe fluids would have helped. But every other bullet performed in a way you’d expect. I’m pretty sure scottfromdallas tried them in milk jugs and had same result of them not opening.
That is surprising. I was considering buying the 215 and 225 Sierra and using whichever shot best. I've had good luck with Sierras running them in 26-2800 ft/sec velocity range. I shot a couple deer last year with the 180 Sierra Prohunter from my 308. Recovered 1 bullet - 141 gr/78% retention after penetrating about 2 feet of deer (head-on shot). I could like that same result in a 338-06 on elk.
That is surprising. I was considering buying the 215 and 225 Sierra and using whichever shot best. I've had good luck with Sierras running them in 26-2800 ft/sec velocity range. I shot a couple deer last year with the 180 Sierra Prohunter from my 308. Recovered 1 bullet - 141 gr/78% retention after penetrating about 2 feet of deer (head-on shot). I could like that same result in a 338-06 on elk.
There is a fellow over on Nosler that uses the 225 Sierra in a 338 RUM and has nothing but praise for it on elk. I have used the 225 Sierra to do initial load work up for the 225 Partition and it seemed to shoot great, never have taken an animal with one though. I have heard all of the same things about the 215 Sierra being pretty hard so I have always wanted to try it out of my 338 Win just to see what it did in jugs as well as at distance, but I haven't had the time to do it just yet. I can't see a soft point bullet like that not expanding decently at 2600.. Seems crazy. Wonder if Sierra got the cores monkeyed up in a production run, cause typically I haven't ever seen any really hard Sierra's out of much of anything, good bullets, just not exactly hard..
I seem to recall that the 215 uses the jacket from a 250 just trimmed down. It is very thick. It is the only bullet I've tried where I was left thinking they missed something in the design. On the good side, it has penetrated far more than any other bullet I've ever tried! I can say it far out penetrates a 225 Accubond, 225 Partition, 210 Barnes TTSX, etc. Which is weird... I really wanted to use that bullet in my 338-06.
Though I use a 338 Win Mag, I've shot nothing but the 200gr BT or 210gr Partition. They've never not worked and the critters span the range of doe pronghorn to cow bison and bull elk. I doubt I'd change that selection with an -06 based 338.
I've had great results with the 200grn Speers on deer and certainly wouldn't give it another thought about using them on elk. I've never caught one in a deer.
This past season's buck was shot with a 180AB at about .338 Fed velocities. Though it worked, I was expecting more from it.
The bullet hit near the last ribs and angled to the opposite shoulder, coming to rest under the hide. Never hit any bone. The entrance looked like a part in the hair without a single drop of blood anywhere. Recovered bullet expanded very wide and weighed 153grns. IMO, it expanded too wide and acted like a parachute.
I used 2. The 210 Nosler partition and the 275 Gr. Speer, which was discontinued even when I was using it. The Speer gave me a "bang-flop" and the Noslers put them down in about 2 seconds.
Can't say anything bad about either one, but I didn't kill lots and lots of elk with my 338-06 either. I have seen more killed with the 338-06 than I have killed myself with it.
Overall it's a great shell. Seems to have the best balance for covering the fields with bullets from 210 to 225. The big Speer was a one-time event. Kinda slow and curved in it's trajectory, but the killing effect was like a bolt of lightning.
Lots of good info in these replies, but the OP specifically wanted a elk "timber" round. In my experience, where shot angles go from OK to Texas heart shots, heavy/premium bullets are the only ones to consider. Any of the .338 swift a-frames would work (225, 250, 275). I would lean towards the 275 grainer. Woodleighs in 300 grain would be a safe bet, also. Barnes X bullets have their followers too.....I use to be one, until I experienced a failure with one. Heavy for caliber trophy bonded bear claws would be a great choice, also. I'm a huge accubond fan, but wouldn't use them in a dedicated timber rifle. My long range elk rifle is a 338 rum, running 225 grain accubonds....and it's pure death on elk and African plains game, but only used in the "open"!
My go to elk timber rifle has always been a 375 H&H with 300 grain swift a-frames, with a 1.5x5 Leupold. I recently did an 06 rebore to 35 Whelen, in a Remington 7600 for the same application, running 310 grain woodleighs in it. Again, with a 1.5x5 Leupold on it. I've only killed coyotes and a whitetail with it so far.....so I can't tell you how it handles elk, but I bet it will! BTW, sighted in at +2" at 100 yds, it's -3" at 200. Thats easy minute of elk, at any range you'll run into, in the dark timber, and then some.
Teeder, Yes, I'm a devout follower of Rev. Keith....but more important, I'm a lousy tracker! I've seen some spectacular wrecks, in the lodgepoles, when the exit hole is at the base of the throat! My first 4 bulls were killed between 16 and 32 yards, many years ago. And I've yet to track one, much less lose one. Another plus, with these heavy/deep penetrating bullets, there is MUCH less meat damage than by 06's, 300's, and 7 mm's, up close.
225 NAB or SST, 2600/2650. Only slayed elk or seen em slayed a half dozen times with each. Both knocked ‘em f’n flat, EVERY time. Cows and bulls. It’s actually too much gun. A 260 or 6.5 creed will yield the same end result... a dead elk. Jumping thirty thousanths in bore diameter from .308 to .338, and backwards in SD, to shoot a weight already commonly available in the original diameter, at a similar velocity, is borderline retarded, at best.
Viable bullets in 338s start at 225, and go UP from there.
Yea, a 185 TTSX at over 3000 FPS just wouldn’t work at all. Rolling eyes at stupid comments.
I’ve seen 6.5mm 140s at 2600-2750 dump enough elk to fill a 10 yard dump truck.
See the original post, he asked about 225s, and got a bunch of answers for bullet weights he can already run in his plain old ‘06.
There are plenty of .308 diameter slugs from 200-220 grains that when launched from a good old ‘06 will run any elk on the planet from stem to stern, and I’d never rebore a barrel 0.030” to run bullets of a weight easily run in an ‘06.. It’s paying to take a step backwards. 225 338s @ 2600-2650 flatten elk in their tracks. It’s a sight to see every ounce of dust knocked off a bull at 60 yards and go straight down. An ‘06 with 180s or 200s or a 260 or creed with 140s all woulda yielded the same result. A dead elk.
"Your range of experience runs that gamut from A to B, plus you're a nitwit. That's a hard combination to overcome, though some people try." - JB
I’m not trying to talk you out of re-boring your .30-06, but I think I would take it to .35 Whelen if I were going that route. Better selection of factory ammo and plenty of good bullets around; amongst them the 225 Partitions. If there are big bears about, the .35W is plenty for close encounters of the worst kind.JMO. Happy Trails
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
I would never rebore a perfectly good rifle just to change caliber. I got the first 338-06 because I somehow ended up with a Remington 700 in 270 that wouldn't hit a barn from the inside with the doors closed. Since I didn't know of a lake deep enough to drown it where some idiot would not fish it out and try to use it, and since I need a rifle to gift a Grandson I decided to convert it Damn thing came out so good I had to have one for myself, so I found a newly barrelled action, dug up a stock and pretty soon I had a shooter, later on I bought another Now I have three in my safe, along with a 338-08AI and a Ruger 338WM. I did have another custom model 70 338WM but gave it to another Grandson. That pretty much makes bullet purchases easy, all I need is Nosler and .338
I was there a year ago. I was on the fence 338-06 or 35W. ended up with 9.3 Since I have 270 and 06. might as well go big. the deciding factor was if I EVER go to africa I'll have enough gun
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
Andy3, Very interesting take on "timber" hunting. I have never understood the switch to heavy for caliber bullets when "timber" hunting. We have never recovered any bullets from elk using many different types of cartridge/bullet combinations with various shot angles. Admittedly have never taken a Texas heart shot.
I would not hesitate one second to take a 338-06 into the timber with 200-210gr bullets. I would not think for even one second that a 225, 250, 275, or 300 would be "more better" from the results I have seen from the 200gr class of bullets on elk. In fact, the farthest I have ever seen an elk run after the shot was from a 338 Win Mag with 225gr Trophy Bonded bullets.
CRS, The first 4 bulls that I made mention of were ALL Texas heart shots, again from 16-32 yards. The first one stopped a 270 grain Hornady .375, just in front of the heart. But I wanted exit holes, even at full length, so I switched to a newfangled (at the time) 270 gr. barnes X bullet. They all exited, after that. Again, with very little meat damage, and no tracking.
I work too hard for my elk to pass up shots in the timber, no matter the angle, and I want exit holes everytime. As I said before, it works for me...and the OP was specifically asking about timber hunting.
BTW, these first hunts were NM "4th rifle" tags in the 80's, in less than premier units. Tags that I could draw every year and hunt meat bulls. By the time my hunt started, these elk never left the timber in daylight hours. Learning how to timber hunt became a necessity....shooting bedded bulls "on the jump". Covering about 100 yds/hour, wearing multiple pairs of old wool socks, for stalking the bedding areas. Intense stuff.
I loaded up some 230 grain ELD-X bullets and tried them this week. I've always shot the 185 TTSX but just wanting to try something new. A generic load with H414 produced excellent accuracy. Shot 4 groups today and all under an inch...one 5 shot group all holes touching. I plan to play with these a bit more but would be happy with this first load if it never got any better. BC of .616 so these bullets should really hang in there.
See the original post, he asked about 225s, and got a bunch of answers for bullet weights he can already run in his plain old ‘06.
As I read it, the OP left it open for people to share their experiences with what they have used be it 225 or something else...
Originally Posted by bwinters
Seriously thinking of getting my 30-06 rebored to 338-06. My goal is to shoot 225 gr bullets at elk in the timber. Looking at the 210 Swift Scirrocco, 225 Partition, 225 Accubond.
How have these bullets, and others you've guys have used, worked on elk size critters?
Thanks.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
The 210 or 225 grain Barnes TSX or TTSX bullets are good timber bullets for a .338-06 and will plant any elk if you put it in the right place. I am about done with the grandsons 338-06 based on an old Springfield 1903A3 that had a rusted out barrel. I am going to load 210 grain TSX bullets over H4895 and WLR primers and expect good results
I would not be a bit afraid to us it for the dreaded "Texas Heart Shot" to stop a wounded moose, as that load will have plenty of the "right stuff" to stop any moose or big bear. So it should be able to handle an elk.
I've intentionally not weighed in on this thread while discussion was occurring because I liked the discourse - civil, passionate, very good discussion.
I did opine on timber hunting and was thinking similar to what Andy was conveying. Sounds like he and I find elk in the same places and hunt the same way. 100 yards and hour is not an exaggeration, at least for me. I've smelled elk before I saw them.
That said Starman is also correct because I did leave it wide open because I have zero experience with any 338 caliber cartridges on elk. I've shot a few deer with 338 WM and 250 Partitions - just because. Pretty sure I wasn't undergunned.
I'm also not inclined to do the Texas heartshot thing. I've passed up more than a few on some nice bulls. If you fail to center a bullet between the hams and hit one of the hams, you basically ruined 75 lbs of meat. I've shot a couple of previously wounded deer that way and it crumples them but wastes alot of meat. Plus I've been able to avoid that shot and still manage to find an elk about every year that cooperates with a nice broadside or quartering away shot. <G>
I really appreciate the discussion and the views posted. I've learned more about 338 caliber bullets in this thread than I would have learned in 20 years of trial and error. On my list of bullets to try are Swift SC II 210, Nosler 210 NPT, Nosler 225 NPT, 225 NAB, and likely the Sierra PH 225. I'll do some water jug, wet newspaper, clay bank testing and see what holds together and my rifle prefers.
The 225 Sierra wasn't mentioned by alot but they have the same velocity window as the 30 cal, 180 PH (1900-3100). I run the 180 in my 308 at 2575-2600. I've shot a few deer with that combo and its tough to catch a bullet. I did catch one last year from a frontal shot. Found the bullet in the ham - expanded well, retained 78% of its weight. My Kimber 308 lobs them into 0.5-0.75 inch groups. A 338-06 likely run the 225 a 100 ft/sec faster but doubt that will turn it into a grenade. I suspect my rifle will like the flat base Sierra - haven't found too many rifles that didn't shoot a flat base sierra fairly well.
Anyone have a 338-06 dummy round with the bullets I mentioned? I'd like to figure out the geometry between the longest OAL to fit in my magazine (3.400), bullet ogive, and chamber accordingly. I suspect the Swift 210 SCII or the 225 NAB have the longest bullet and associated ogive. I'll put a WTB in the classifieds and see if I get any interest.
Any other thoughts/ideas - throw 'em on the table!
Have only killed 3 critters with my 338-06, none were elk. Caribou at 250 yards, Moose at 300 yards, grizzly bear at 35-40 yards. All shot with the 210 Scricco at 2830 fps out of my 21" rebore 338-06 Kimber Montana. Also loaded 225 NABs to 2695 fps and 230 ELDX to 2650 fps.
I am using 250 A Frames this next month in it for another Kodiak spring bear hunt where I will play back up but those are only lumbering along at 2500 fps. If you choose to keep your Kimber at 24" I see no reason why you couldn't best my velocities listed by 50-75 fps.
Anyone have a 338-06 dummy round with the bullets I mentioned? I'd like to figure out the geometry between the longest OAL to fit in my magazine (3.400), bullet ogive, and chamber accordingly. I suspect the Swift 210 SCII or the 225 NAB have the longest bullet and associated ogive. I'll put a WTB in the classifieds and see if I get any interest.
If you send me the bullets, I'll make the dummy rounds up for you.
Hey bwinters these Sciroccos were pulled from an enormous bull elk. Shots were in the 75 yd range. One broadside through ribs and the other two in the neck. All were imbedded on the far side hide. The last two were not necessary but with no snow I wasn't taking any chances. Muzzle velocity was 2865fps from the AI version so impact was probably somewhere around 2725. All bullets weighed around 195gr. Hope this helps.
Here is the only 210 Sciroccos I have recovered. The one on the caribou went right through. The 2 on the grizz went through. The broadside shot at 300 on the moose went through. This bullet we went I walked up to the moose and it stood up at less than 10 yards from me. Between the eye, both sides of skull and deep into the neck issue, lights out.
Please post your results using the 250 Aframes. And good luck! Pics are required.
I will if I actually get to get in on some follow up action this time if needed.
Last time I took my 338-06 to Kodiak in 2016 and had it stoked with 250 A Frames, my wife didn't need my help in the least and dumped this little fella in one shot with her 20" barrel 308 win.
I can like that alot. I'll probably start with that bullet. I can get a sample size from submoashooting.com. He's a local guy and campfire member (claybreaker). Plus he's just a plain good dude. He started the sample bullet site a couple months back and is a really good deal.
Thanks guys. An interweb search indicates alot of guys use the 210 NPT and 210 Swift SC II on elk in both the 338-06 and its big brother.
It also looks like 2775 is possible with 210s and 2675 with 225s. With the high BC possible in both those weights, they shoot flat out to 400 yards which is farther than I plan to use this rig - but you never know when one will show up across the meadow.
If anyone wants to share their favorite 338-06 with 210 or 225 recipes, that'd be ok <G>
I have been using 210 TTSXs with RL17 and getting great accuracy, low spreads and 2790 fps out of a 23" barrel.
Seems thats about the speed I get with 210 ttsx and varget too! Don't think mine is a 23 though, think its a 22 or even a smidge less. Alas it stays in AK where it belongs so I can't measure.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
BWinters, I have 338-06 brass and a variety of bullets. 210 PT, Scirocco II and 225 Partitions. I can seat some dummy rounds to the OAL of your choice and send them. Don’t have any A-Frames though.
There are damn few .338 bullets sold that will not work in a 338-06 for elk. Elk are not bullet proof. You do not need so called premium bullets for the 338-06. Pick one that shoots well out of your gun and go hunting. Most guys reloading have too much time or money. Or both.
So "Greed is good".. and if ya got that much $$$ (and don't mind spending it) premium bullets are "cheap insurance".....if you can live with some "over-penetration" but if you don't have min.1500 ft/lb in 'knockdown power' and min..250 in SD...and are not totting a DGR 'CRF' in case of bear attack,...it may be all cause to doubt oneself.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
There are damn few .338 bullets sold that will not work in a 338-06 for elk. Elk are not bullet proof. You do not need so called premium bullets for the 338-06. Pick one that shoots well out of your gun and go hunting. Most guys reloading have too much time or money. Or both.
Not sure I'm buying your argument. On time - it's a new rifle, I need to do load development whatever bullet I choose. On money, Nosler Partition is the most expensive bullet on my list at about $1 each. The cheapest bullet is the Sierra at $0.53 each. A 3 round group cost me an extra $1.42 over the cheapest bullet. I normally figure out a load in less than a box of 50. So I'm out zero time and extra $23.51 using Partitions.
I'm pretty sure anyone working can afford the "extra" $20.
As an FYI, I bought 3 boxes of 225 Partitions off a guy for substantailly less than $1.00 per bullet. More like $0.50 each. So I'm into a 'premium' bullet for the same price as the cheapest.
There are damn few .338 bullets sold that will not work in a 338-06 for elk. Elk are not bullet proof. You do not need so called premium bullets for the 338-06. Pick one that shoots well out of your gun and go hunting. Most guys reloading have too much time or money. Or both.
Not sure I'm buying your argument. On time - it's a new rifle, I need to do load development whatever bullet I choose. On money, Nosler Partition is the most expensive bullet on my list at about $1 each. The cheapest bullet is the Sierra at $0.53 each. A 3 round group cost me an extra $1.42 over the cheapest bullet. I normally figure out a load in less than a box of 50. So I'm out zero time and extra $23.51 using Partitions.
I'm pretty sure anyone working can afford the "extra" $20.
As an FYI, I bought 3 boxes of 225 Partitions off a guy for substantailly less than $1.00 per bullet. More like $0.50 each. So I'm into a 'premium' bullet for the same price as the cheapest.
Buy what ever you want for your 338/06, but most bullets in that caliber were built for the 338 mag. I have seen many elk shot with plain cup and core 338 mags and the elk die well. Please know I am talking from experience of 30 yrs of guiding elk hunters and seeing hundreds of elk die. I have been loading for the 338 mag and 338/06 for about the same time and have shot elk with both premium and so called regular bullets .. The results in either case have been elk in the freezer. Also, I like to shoot a lot, so expensive bullets are a waste on paper. So I shoot paper and kill elk with Sierras, Hornady's, Speer's and even Remington corelocks on occasion. I load for a good friend and neighbor that has a 338 mag using 225 hornadys at about 2800 fps. He shoots an elk ever year with one shot. I think that bullet would work fine in a 338/06 at a 150 fps slower. So again you buy what you want for your 338/06, but I know from experience premium bullets are unnecessary.
There are damn few .338 bullets sold that will not work in a 338-06 for elk. Elk are not bullet proof. You do not need so called premium bullets for the 338-06. Pick one that shoots well out of your gun and go hunting. Most guys reloading have too much time or money. Or both.
Not sure I'm buying your argument. On time - it's a new rifle, I need to do load development whatever bullet I choose. On money, Nosler Partition is the most expensive bullet on my list at about $1 each. The cheapest bullet is the Sierra at $0.53 each. A 3 round group cost me an extra $1.42 over the cheapest bullet. I normally figure out a load in less than a box of 50. So I'm out zero time and extra $23.51 using Partitions.
I'm pretty sure anyone working can afford the "extra" $20. .
An extra $20 every time you practice adds up quickly.
I appreciate you guys viewpoints and don't disagree. My viewpoint is/was limited to elk killing, not practice. I tend not to practice with 'expensive' bullets. I have more than a few cup/core bullets on my bench. I also tend not to shoot larger cartridges any more than necessary to keep sharp. I do tend to shoot alot of 243-308 type cartridges for every day shooting/practice. Almost all of my rifles are Kimber or M70 so about the only difference is cartridge.
The other factor is what shoots well in my rifle. Notice I included the Sierra 225 in my list of bullets to test for elk killing. I use Sierras in cartridges than run less than 2800 because they normally hold together at those velocities and shoot very good. That said, if I can get a Partition to shoot well, I default to them for the killing part. I'm OK with spending a few extra dollars for bullets used to kill critters.
I want to see if I can duplicate the venerable .333 Jeffery (250 grain bullet at 2500 fps, nominally) in my .338-06. I've bought some Sierra 250 grain Game Kings and will be chronographing various weights of IMR4350 tomorrow. The .333 was considered a fine round for all African game short of elephant and rhino with the 250 grain bullet. It should be a fine elk round under 200 yards.
I don't think sierra makes a 225 gr bullet in .338. I believe it is 215 gr and it is very stout. They shoot very well in my guns. Sounds like you have a good plan. Good luck, but don't try to make your 338/06 into a 338 mag. Sorry, I just saw that Sierra does make a 225 gr pro hunter in .338. Should be a good bullet too.
Sierra makes a 225 grain Pro Hunter, #2620. I think they made them for Federal in their loaded ammo for a few years before releasing them to reloaders.
I haven't shot anything with them but paper, but they are supposed to be a tough bullet for a cup and core.
Here are the results from today's chronograph session:
56.0 gr. IMR-4350 2379 fps
57.0 gr. IMR-4350 2422 fps
58.0 gr IMR-4350 2469 fps
In my rifle that's about as far up as I want to go -- in fact I may back down to 57.5 grains. How the Jeffery, with its smaller case got 2500 fps isn't clear to me and I'm wondering that the actual speeds were on those old loads at 75 degrees.
Recoil with these 250s is stout -- more than a .300 Win Mag. with 180 grain loads.
Edit: Oh wait, I just checked and the case capacity of the .333 Jeffery is given variously as 84-86 grains vs the .338-06's 70 grains.
There isn't anything that walks on North America that your 250 gr SBT load wouldn't handle. I believe Jim Carmichael even shot a Cape Buffalo with the 250 gr Sierra bt out of a 338 mag With one shot. I know I killed a Shiras Moose with his same load in the 338 win mag.. 68 gr imr 4350.
I believe Carmichel used the Sierra 250 gr BT Game King. I remember an Outdoor Life article that he killed a big Cape Buffalo and a big bull elk with 2 shells loaded with 68 gr IMR 4350 and that bullet. I think the elk was pretty long range too. I looked last night and couldn't find the article. I always enjoyed reading his stuff.
I don't think the Sierra gk 215 gr is too hard for the 338/06 if you drive them hard. And I would not be afraid to try the 250's in a 338/06 either on game. Should really penetrate.
I don't think the Sierra gk 215 gr is too hard for the 338/06 if you drive them hard. And I would not be afraid to try the 250's in a 338/06 either on game. Should really penetrate, but velocity will only be 2500 fps or so.
I believe Carmichel used the Sierra 250 gr BT Game King. I remember an Outdoor Life article that he killed a big Cape Buffalo and a big bull elk with 2 shells loaded with 68 gr IMR 4350 and that bullet. I think the elk was pretty long range too. I looked last night and couldn't find the article. I always enjoyed reading his stuff.
That must have been with the .338 WM. The .338-06 won't hold that amount, in fact 58 grains is a compressed load.
Sierra bullets have long been known for accuracy, as far as terminal performance I haven't a clue. Doubt I'd try any at this point, maybe after I hear more.
I always toy with the idea of a .338/06, have dies and dummy rounds to fondle and barrels to bore out but I am very curious in the other direction........ You see, Barnes makes a 265gn LRX bullet and it sits to the 1st pressure groove for an OAL of 3.4" and cycles through a Model 70 standard '06 action. You see the dilemma?
All the loading data out there suggests that 760/H414 would likely hit around 2400fps and that would smack hard for dark timber work, prove adequate for self defense work and still shoot flat over usual hunting ranges for most people. Elk, Moose, Bear and just plain fun. What keep me from making the move is a tack driving .338 and a .340 and .338/378 background. Still, I do seem to be stepping down somewhat in carry rifles? John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
I always toy with the idea of a .338/06, have dies and dummy rounds to fondle and barrels to bore out but I am very curious in the other direction........ You see, Barnes makes a 265gn LRX bullet and it sits to the 1st pressure groove for an OAL of 3.4" and cycles through a Model 70 standard '06 action. You see the dilemma?
All the loading data out there suggests that 760/H414 would likely hit around 2400fps and that would smack hard for dark timber work, prove adequate for self defense work and still shoot flat over usual hunting ranges for most people. Elk, Moose, Bear and just plain fun. What keep me from making the move is a tack driving .338 and a .340 and .338/378 background. Still, I do seem to be stepping down somewhat in carry rifles? John
You are not the only one
The only big game rifles I have and use in Alaska are a couple of Ruger .338WMs. One is the stainless M77 MKII that I replaced the stock with a Hogue Rubber-Overmolded, and a Timney trigger. Not a supper accurate rifle, but the first three shots from a cold and clean barrel always hit the right spot +3" at 100 yards. The other is a beautiful Ruger Haweye African. This one I replace the walnut stock with a McMillan Classic stock with a Decelerator recoil pad for a LOP to 12-1/2". This rifle has a 22" barrel, and no muzzle brake. The barrel ends just but the front edge of the front sight, and has a sort of satin-black finish. The bolt has the same finish, and it is smooth as warm butter to load a round in the chamber.
I always toy with the idea of a .338/06, have dies and dummy rounds to fondle and barrels to bore out but I am very curious in the other direction........ You see, Barnes makes a 265gn LRX bullet and it sits to the 1st pressure groove for an OAL of 3.4" and cycles through a Model 70 standard '06 action. You see the dilemma?
All the loading data out there suggests that 760/H414 would likely hit around 2400fps and that would smack hard for dark timber work, prove adequate for self defense work and still shoot flat over usual hunting ranges for most people. Elk, Moose, Bear and just plain fun. What keep me from making the move is a tack driving .338 and a .340 and .338/378 background. Still, I do seem to be stepping down somewhat in carry rifles? John
Most handloaders select lighter end bullet weights in the .338/06. I am interested in the heavier bullets as I don't see this as a long range cartridge though a rifleman could certainly learn to use it at longer range. I would use it in timber, gully's and semi open areas if, I didn't already have a good .338. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
I see, well the .333 Jeffery with the 300 grain bullet was very popular in Africa, and considered adequate for buffalo out to 250 yards or so (J.F. Burger took over 500 of his 1000 buffalo with this combo). But I think 250 grains is about the max for the .338-06 because of the smaller case capacity. I too like the heavier bullets.
Jim Carmichael actually used the older semi-pointed Nosler 250 Partition on the cape buffalo. I remember the article. As I recall he used it on everything in the 338WM.
PS If I remember right, I think it was the same bullet that Bill Jordan shot a cape buffalo with from his 338-378 Keith-Thompson. I also have a gunsmith friend who spoke with a Nosler guy at the Shot Show one year and that guy ( whoever he was) said that no one at Nosler used anything on a regular basis on elk, in any 338 caliber, than the 210 Partition. Makes sense to me, but especially in the '06 cases/designs. I also really like "the other direction" of really heavy, Old School round nose cup n cor bullets for the woods (timber) my last venture was the 310 Woodleigh in a 35 WAI going 2400fps on a 200# Eurasian at 30yds.... Perfection. Good luck Pard.
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