The media today has made anyone they write about as either a hero or a goat. When you do everything right and it turns out good you are dubbed a hero. When the end result is bad then you are the goat. They have to make a big deal out of everything to promote their cause. My opinion is this very qualified captain did her job.
They both did an excellent job, both! Captain, and FO
Used to be at Continental the captain was required to do all emergency checklists and also fly the approach and landing, either thru the autopilot or manually. This method required crew coordination to hand over airplane control to the CoPilot while the captain did the checklists, and then take back physical control of the airplane. At UAL the captain can either do the checklist or delegate that to the FO. As well as let him land or do the landing himself. I personally liked Continentals method and would do the checklist and then assume control and land.
Worth considering is that this wasn't a simple flame out and depressurization. The engine grenaded and damaged the fuselage with a passenger half sucked out a window being ragdolled by 500 knot airflow. With part of the engine missing, one would expect a change in both balance and drag, no? With part of the engine missing and damage to the fuselage one would expect some concern with the structural integrity of the airframe and/or controls, no? With a passenger being ragdolled 1/2 out of the airframe one would be concerned about the rest of the passengers, no?
With no clearly quantifiable definition of what a hero is, one can argue that one way or another. But to dismiss this as a no big deal event, simple text book exercise any pilot would act the same way IMHO is downplaying a job well done by the Captain and crew in a serious event.
Sure carrier pilots have great big brass balls and without a doubt landing on a carrier is as tough as it gets. But bringing a large jet with 147 people on board that has been damaged in a calm professional manner is a commendable feat in itself.
Nice touch on the keyboard Paul, no surprise coming from you, but still pleasant to read. Articulate, concise and spot on imo
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
To the ones so inflamed about Jorge's post; When and where would have been a better place to properly put Capt. Shults' performance into perspective?
Start another thread where it would be looked upon as a personal attack on Capt. Shults and attacked as strenuously as it has here?
He applauded her performance, he didn't denigrate that. He only, and correctly so, placed it in proper perspective. That is something that needs doing on a much more regular basis.
What she did is nowhere near as difficult nor potentially catastrophic as what "Sully" did. Landing on one engine in a plane designed to do so, with all of the control surfaces intact, and, apparently all electronics and avionics intact, isn't in the same category as "Sully" nor Admiral Bull.
She did well. "Superbly" as Jorge put it.
Ed
There is also the preponderance to make something of an accomplishment of a woman that men have been doing for decades. I am inclined to keep men doing what they have for thousands of years. Women in fighter jets and on fire trucks, is nothing more than an attempt to prove something that doesn't need proved.
Originally Posted by RJY66
I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
Since there are so many airplane nerds on one thread, I have another ignorant question.
In the movie Sully, the air traffic controller is pulled of from communicating with the aircraft while in the middle of dealing with the situation. Is that some sort of SOP, and if so, why?
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Much has been made about this pilot being female, and she has accomplished a lot just getting there. I have absolutely no doubt she is a competent pilot, or she wouldn't have been there. But she wasn't the ONLY pilot. There was another, and from the early ATC conversations I have heard, it's a guy. As events unfolded, she got on the radio, probably because he was flying the airplane. I am guessing she was the co-pilot and not the pilot in command. So who is he, and why isn't he getting any attention?
She was The Captain....
So you think she had him do the flying while she ran the checklist and radio?
Quote from Captain Paul Havis 777 Captain, United airlines.
Used to be at Continental the captain was required to do all emergency checklists and also fly the approach and landing, either thru the autopilot or manually. This method required crew coordination to hand over airplane control to the CoPilot while the captain did the checklists, and then take back physical control of the airplane. At UAL the captain can either do the checklist or delegate that to the FO. As well as let him land or do the landing himself. I personally liked Continentals method and would do the checklist and then assume control and land.
Captains Havis and BamBam, I stand corrected! I also have a bit more info now than before. She was PIC. I saw a picture taken by a passenger of her and the co-pilot; he was standing there with three stripes on his epaulets. From the recording I heard, it sounded like he made the first call to ATC saying they were single engine and descending. I never heard anyone say mayday, but they could have said that before the start of the recording that I heard, or maybe they just squawked 7700, or let the controller declare it. Pretty soon, she was on the radio asking for vectors to the nearest airport, taking the clearance down to 3000 and telling them a 20 mile final to 27L would be okay. She also asked for medical to meet them on the runway because of the injured passengers, and said there was no fire but some of the airplane was missing. She also said a window was out and a passenger may have left the aircraft.
I know they practice emergency descents and engine-out procedures all the time in simulators, but I've yet to see a simulator that induces the physiological stresses of a real decompression with a damaged airplane. You may bust your checkride, but that's about the worst that will happen in a building on the ground.
I am still impressed with the calmness in her voice, and the contrast with the stress in the voice of the controller. He was talking faster and faster and repeating himself. She sounded like she was on a Sunday afternoon trip around the traffic pattern.
And I don't see how they could have done a better job.
Sounds like a wonderful woman. Given the fact that we all agree on that men are a bit better suited to all this stuff I’d say she did a heckofa a great job.
As has been mentioned, her calm & collected demeanor was particularly impressive to me.
If I were her husband or son I’d be pretty damned proud.
[ I'll take a wild guess and say that night traps in an S-3 are something trained for too. So?
My only night landings on a ship have been in the back of a '46 or '53. I'm glad they all went well too.
Jorge is one of my heroes (oops), but he can sure run his mouth for a guy who left Marine Infantry for an easier life with better pay, then carry on about women in the military.
Jorge WAS in the 'boys club', but it wasn't for him.
Since I'm a hero now and it's bad form to pick on the TEDs in public, I'll just add that I know there are a few of us here who have a few night traps and they will tell you what they feel like. In fact, experiments have been performed by hooking up aviators to monitor heart rate, breathing, sweating, etc, during night traps and flying in combat during Vietnam (and Vietnam was THE most dangerous AAA environment EVER) and more stress was shown when coming aboard at night that when in combat. As to the "Boys Club", having done both, I think I'm qualified to opine on both and tell you it ain't even close and leave it at that....
PS: I'll also add that in my thirty years experience and nine cruises, seven all male, was involved in the initial assessment of Title Ten restrictions on females (where every expert told us not to do so), women have completely changed the culture in the armed forces and in the Marine Corps, they still fight the integration. The problem is, if one speaks to the facts, your career's in jeopardy. Then again, I don't have a female relation in any of the services to suborn my experience based opinions. Sitting here in my office at home, I have reams of data on the subject, including research I did whilst I was a RAND Fellow. I was going write about it once, but in reality, IDGAF any more, it sure as hell isn't my navy.
I don't get that bothered about the boys club stuff, mostly just me being a dickhead and pushing your buttons a little, now and then.
But I see recently where all MOS's in the USMC are now open to females. Not many want the combat arms jobs, but it seems there are a handful that do.
Times certainly are changing. All the gender/sexual crap nowadays, I'm glad I retired before all that stuff hit.
Since there are so many airplane nerds on one thread, I have another ignorant question.
In the movie Sully, the air traffic controller is pulled of from communicating with the aircraft while in the middle of dealing with the situation. Is that some sort of SOP, and if so, why?
I can't say about the movie but here's the real controller.
The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
