Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Most low key versatile gun dog?

What breed, other than a Lab, would make for a low-key vversatile gun dog? English Setter? French Brittany?

griffon.....bob

I have seen some Chesapeake Bay Retrievers that would qualify, as well as some English Cockers.

I like the looks of the English Cocker. Small enough for me to manage on the golf cart, ATV, and boat.

Spinoni, Bracco, or most other little heard of continental breeds. Griffons, wirehairs, shorthairs, vizslas, and the like could qualify but one would have to check pedigrees and see the parents to make a final determination. Wirehairs and especially shorthairs have had attempts to breed lines to compete against English Setters and Pointers which can make for a more hyper individual. My first two wire airs were bigger running dogs, especially my second one which would range like my trial setters. He was pretty tame in the house but he liked to reach out ther when possible.

Setters and Pointers I don't think of as being low key. The Ryman and Old Hemlock lines can be but one is more likely to find shooting dog and trial lines which can be higher strung. That is what I pick for my setters and all could be called psycho to varying degrees.

Labs from English lines seem to be the most biddable to me, friends with them seldom seem to mention barking, excitedness, or loneliness problems with their dogs. Those with American lines seem to have those issues more often. The British lines also seem to be a bit smaller if size is a consideration.

A neighbor raised, trained, and trailed hunting Cocker and Springer spaniels for decades. Of the two, the Springers seem d to have more calm individuals than the Cockers. It might be "small dog syndrome" or maybe breeding but I saw a couple hundred of each helping at trials held on his property.

In every breed there are calm dogs, psychos, and everything in between. The best one can do is research the pedigrees and trial/testing scores and observe the parents and pups several different times to see how they act. That is still no guarantee but it might help you make an informed guess. That is really what we do when we pick a pup.
.

Yes, I currently own an English Lab and have owned another one prior to my current one, and they are indeed very biddable and low key. I was just looking for something different next time, particularly something smaller.

My brother is a Setter nut, and I would say all of his have been low key.

English Springers or English Cockers are versatile. They will flush most anything and do acceptable water retrieving as long as the conditions are not extreme.

However, examples from the best breeding will usually take a few years to calm down and be low key. My current English Cocker is now three and around the house has settled in. Get him outside and it becomes obvious why they call them "pocket rockets."

Don't make the mistake of confusing the English Cocker with the American Cocker.

Triggernosis,

A GOOD Weimaraner is HARD to beat for an all-around gun-dog.
(YES there are some worthless "Gray Ghosts" out there but also some VERY good ones too. = NO they are NOT "the best" at many "specialized tasks", but then they were NOT intended to be more than a "generalist" that can accomplish many tasks acceptably.)

I wouldn't have taken love or money for my "two girls".

yours, tex

My wife says my English Setters are couch potato’s. But they are very active outdoors. Hasbeen

A Golden retriever from field lines would be a good one.

If we throw out the retrievers, I’d probably pick a Deutsch Drathaar, they have all the bird dog qualities and can also handle fur/trailing. Specifically talking about birds, I think some sort of wirehair pointing breed would win, because they can stand up to cold late season duck hunting better than a spaniel or setter would. I’m not sure you could call that “low key” though.

My Boykin will retrieve well but will occasionally get half way out and then turn around and come back in exceptionally cold water, and on those days I have to keep hunts very short after he gets wet. A lot of natural drive that made up for training mistakes on my part. With no training on it, he also does an acceptable job quartering and flushing. Pretty rare breed outside of the southeast apparently, I hadn’t seen one or heard much of them until we moved to NC.

To All,

One might also consider a Hungarian Vizsla (or any number of the other less common "general use" breeds) or even a German Shorthaired Pointer, which has a lot of hound blood.
(Many GSP do a "pretty good job" off any number of tasks.)

yours, tex

They all can be good, pick what you like. Really do your homework on the breeder.

I knew nothing of this breed until my nephew bought one about 7 yrs ago. I’ve always been a big fan of Labs but I have to say the Vizsla has stolen my heart. Had I not adopted this Lab pup over Easter I was going to be shopping for a Vizsla.

I have had both Chessies and GWP and low key is the last thing I would call them. Great dogs but very intense.
Pavementends

While there are some breeds that have a reputation for being a bit more laid back, I believe you’ll find more difference from dog to dog than in breeds. Find a reputable breeder/trainer of a dog you like the looks of and buy a fully trained 2/3 year old dog that has the personality you’re looking for. My last two dogs have been GSP’s and while both have been great hunting dogs, they are as different as night and day. I can attest that you can find a GSP to fit your needs. You might even look around for an older dog. I would avoid puppies.

jimdgc,

EXACTLY SO.

I no longer have the patience/interest to raise a pup. = Make mine FULLY/professionally trained.

yours, tex

We like SM - small munsterlanders - they are mellow in the house and do well on the hunt.

We have 4:

Evie - 8 years old...she is a good retriever and pointer, ok at ducks but not the greatest when compared to...
Sheila - 6 years old (7 in June)...she is the alpha dog, the best hunter used for quail, doves, and duck...she is a southern duck fiend - retrieving in bays and swamps, a link of her retrieving is in one of the threads below.
Heidi - 3 years old - a very good quail hunter. She is also a certified therapy dog and visits nursing homes and hospitals via the wife. Heidi really makes a difference for ill people who like to see a bird dog...
Liberty - 9 weeks old on Monday - she is Sheila's sister's puppy...so we got one while we could. She knows how to use the dog door and is looking really alphaesque in her play habits, she is roan so hopefully she favors duck hunting.

As I type, Evie is napping on the love seat, Liberty is snuggled beside me on the couch, Sheila is napping on the rung and Heidi i barking at something in the back yard...the come see what I'm barking at and play with me bark...

I'm OK with a 1-2 yr old dog, for sure. My best dog ever was a British Labrador that I got at 2 yrs old. My worst dog is my current British Lab that we got as a 10 week old puppy. He's laid back, manageable, and smart like British Labs ate known to be, but I swear he has "doggie Aspbergers" as the fawker is weird as hell, and doesn't like to be with the family - he's in my daughter's bedroom right now holed up in his crate. He's friendly to every visitor and gets excited when I ask him to go for a walk or out to the farm, but when in the hell have you ever heard of a Labrador that doesn't want to cuddle up with the family?

I should also add that water retrieving is pretty much last on my list.
I'm looking for a well-mannered pet more than a gun dog; though, a dog that has at least some hunting instinct would be nice for the occasional opportunity afield.

Triggernosis,

I return to suggesting a QUALITY Weimaraner or Vizsla that has been TRAINED by a real PRO & TESTED by a recognized/competent breed group in Europe..
(The Czech Republic has numerous breeders/trainers that does good work in breeding/training gundogs.)

Neither canine is GREAT at ANY "specialized task" but they do an ACCEPTABLE job of any number of gundog tasks. = Those breeds were INTENTIONALLY bred to be a GENERALIST.

Note: The failing of BOTH breeds is that they aren't suitable for waterfowling in Northern/frigid Winters.
(BOTH of "my girls" were VERY disinclined to retrieve geese/ducks when WI Winter arrived. = Dolly & Emily would DO what they were ordered to do but NOT at all happily.)

yours, tex

Thanks, tex. I can certainly do without retrieving ability in cold water as I'm almost 100% guaranteed not be be out in that mess anyway.
I'm liking the Visla, as it is smaller than the Weimerweiner.

Triggernosis,

A Vizsla does (generally) NOT have the "body mass"/brute strength to fight a wild boar (and win) OR to take out a determined housebreaker.

BOTH of my girls DID do both needful tasks. = Both of "the girls" have been gone for over a decade & I still miss them.

Emily may have looked like "a pussycat" & a "champion couch potato" but she was turned into a LEOPARDESS full-grown, when an armed criminal "came to visit" our farm late one Fall evening.
(The thug spent several hours in the ER getting places that LEAKED profusely sewed-up.)

My "Dolly-GRRL" was our version of the Fouke Monster & "would fight a circle saw & give it time to warm up."

Note: I was present the night that an AR State trooper KILLED the REAL Fouke Monster, which turned out to be (by DNA) a large severely-scarred/disfigured black bear.
(She was likely burned in a woods fire, according to the late biologist Dr. Victor Oliver. - Dr. Oliver stated in an interview with THE TEXARKANA GAZETTE that the she-bear started killing stock & attacking people because she was unable to take her normal prey & that he suspected that she was "in near constant pain" .)

yours, tex

I owned the best bird dog I ever saw. A little 45 lb shorthair I got as a pup out of an ad in a local ag paper. She amazed me every season and I bought here many a steak for her feats , but she was wound a little to tight to keep in the house with little kids. She loved them but knocked them over like bowling pins. I loved her and will always miss her. I have a 35 lb Brittany now and and for me is the best all around choice for a hunter and a family dog. Loves the water, good nose , intense hunter and great in the house. One of the smartest dogs I,ve seen.

BigPine,

You could do a lot worse than a GSP or a Brittany for a gundog.

yours, tex

American or French brittany

I've definitely been keeping my eye on them as candidates.

Another vote for Small Munsterlander. Have a GSP as well she is great. SM is mellow and sweet in the house but really comes alive in the field. Kinda a have to see to believe personality. Wouldn't trade either for the world but a SM would fit your needs better I do believe.

English cocker for me. They are wonderful if you train them well and simply don't allow them to be hyped up in the house.

Otherwise, a Small Munsterlander might be right up your alley. I've never seen one that was hyper anyway.

Have you ever read Smokey and the Fouke Monster?

Definitely wouldn’t put drahthaar/wirehair on the low key list,they’re a handful.

And I have 2 drahts within reach of me currently.

For upland game, an English Setter. Setters are known as the "ladies and gentlemen" of the dog world. Great pointer that can be taught to retrieve. Gentle mouth. Wonderful with children. They are affection sponges and give lots of affection in return. Fit into a family well. They can be a bit stubborn at times, though. They respond best to training that incorporates lots of praise and positive reinforcement and require lots of exercise. Reasonably intelligent and eager to please. Quite biddable.

They are definitely not water dogs.

Drahthaars are a handful and need to be worked hard and consistently. I'd not put them in the low key group either. Though I do love my 18 month old drahthaar dearly.

Wired haired pointing griffon

Upland, small game, waterfowl

Great all around versatile breed. Or a puddle pointer

Depending on one's definition of low key, I could probably include a pudelpointer. Hank is pretty darn good in the house. He's energetic, not so much it drives you bonkers, but he's most often always doing "something". Whether that's checking out the yard through the glass door and window to windoq, chewing on a bone, nuzzling you for ear scratches. All in all, I think the breed fits well for us. My wife may not agree totally as he does shed a bit more than we expected, yet less than any other dog we've had.

Versatile = Griff

Same dog different situations. Hasbeen

They both look nice!!! I had pointers for years. I don’t take the American Field anymore. Has a setter won the National championship? There was a big bonus posted for a setter to win. I quit quail hunting in 2004. Pointers won most everything in all age since the forties. I always liked the Christmas issue.

I owned at least 40 pointers through the years. Lots of run to them. Most were hard mouthed, hard headed, hard to break, and they killed lots of skunks. I had one that would find any cripple bird, she would retrieve ducks out of the water. If you hunted her by herself she would point birds, but if you had her down with another dog, all she would do is hunt the other dog and back the other dog. I never owned a dog that didn’t have a fault of some kind.

I miss quail hunting but don’t miss taking care of 8 to 10 dogs. I got lazy!

I'm partial to German Shorthair Pointers. They retrieve for dove, duck, and point quail/pheasant, etc. I raised, trained, and hunted with GSPs when I ran my guiding business. They work for you where English pointers seemed to hunt more for themselves. My partner hunted strictly with English Pointers. I never lost a shorthair whereas he had at least one dog run off every year.

Good hunting whatever you choose.

I never lost one of my pointers, but I spent time looking for one once in a while.

Wirehaired Pointing Griffon. I call mine my Wirehaired Pointing Wookie Death Dealer when it comes to bird hunting. Mine doesn't shed and is hypoallergenic. Loves EVERYBODY. I work at an archery shop and he comes to work with me almost everyday since he was 8 weeks old so he's met probably 2500+ people.

gssp……...how far out does your griff range on average ?...….bob

Anyone with time around a griff loves them. They are great loving dogs.

When hunting? Rarely, no more than 50 yds and almost always closer. When on a typical daily walk, he might get out to 100 yds but is ALWAYS coming back to check on me; this far because he knows the routine.

Alan

The "eye"

nice looking griff

Everyone knows German Shorthairs are versatile hunters but they've moved up to around #10 in overall popularity because they're also great family dogs. They love people and cuddling with the family and are easy to have around at ~50#s.

Upland






Migratory - No dove pics but she LOVES dove hunting!




And even the infamous housefly!!

That's a really cute pic!!

Gorden Setter

Depends what type of hunting you do ... and how you like to hunt (close working dog, or a ranging dog).

I had a viszla, but found it was to light coated to deal with Jan bird hunting.

I now have a Brittany ... and DAMN. !!!! Yeah it’s a bit wired, but nothing like a GSP.

Hunts close, is smallish, listens well... great dogs

With my bum knees, my hunting is more akin to leisurely shuffling along. Maybe riding the ATV along the edge of a field and hopping off every now and then to explore and maybe shoot a bird, squirrel, or rabbit on occasion. A couple of days each season dove hunting maybe. I prefer a close-working dog.

I love their looks - they are beautiful. But I'm not sure they would be smaller enough than my Lab to make for easy handling.

Clumber Spaniel should be about as low key as you will find. Versatile as long as you have the patience to match theirs. 😀

Damn they're ugly! No thanks.

The Dog would probably think much the same.

No doubt about that.

The best dog is a friend with a dog that works. You don't have to feed or train it.

Having had both a great Boykin Spaniel and now a 2 1/2 yr. old field bred English Cocker, Battue knows what he's talking about. They're very versatile and make wonderful house dog companions as they mature but once they're in the field they live to hunt. I love the size and both have been great upland dogs, but mine almost needs to be out running at least 45 min./day to run off the energy. My dog is my cardio workout.

I'm getting too old and beat up to try to give a dog a 45 min. workout every day. Maybe I need a Bassett Hound.

45 min. isn't much when you include training activities you'll be doing any way. Could always get a cat! 😜

You hunt with an FB English Cocker and they expect you to have as much fun at the game as they do.

Hunting with a dog like "Lunatic Kenny" makes for a great day........love that video!

The best thing going is a friend that has dogs. You drive over to his house, load dogs and go.

I was that friend. I fed, cleaned kennels while my friend paid a little gas money and groceries. He had a deal.

My grif will hunt close when chasingcquail and grouse and range out to around 70 to 80 yds for Huns sharpies and chukar

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That cocker vid is AWESOME!

English Cockers are a hooooot!!!!

Let them carry the gun and I'd bet that could handle 30's. And easily.

Model 12 a 16? If so what choke?

16 and Mod. Been looking for an IC barrel, but it in the long run it doesn't make all that much difference.

The Model 51 is Modified also.

Toby the Cocker, he wasn't great but good enough.


28Ga and Modified....



Model 51 again:



Model 12:





Training day: Merlot the Cocker, Model 12 20Ga and IC.

I will give you my experience and I started to test out Dogs in NAVHDA, as far back as the early 80's. I trained a lot of pointers, No matter what dog you have I have always believed in one thing....."You own what you condone"............ Your talking low key,,,,,,, that would rule out a lot of breeds, because for instance, I can always shorten up a dog, but I like to get them, with a lot of drive. Of course it goes without saying, its all training time. Pointers are a lot of work, and besides some table and yard work, it takes birds birds and more birds for training.................................... I have had GSP, setters, and wire hairs, all can do the job, but again, its what your looking for. Setters can make some of the best woodcock dogs in the world, and than there pretty much done, compared to a GSP for a all around dog, and I love setters. There are no bad dogs, just bad handlers......

If you do not have a lot of room, the cocker can be tough to beat, they are not cheap, due to the breeding that has been brought back to better the breed. Also do you need a dog to do water work? Presently at 68 I need a low key dog, so I have a lab,,,,,,,, he is not big, 60lbs, he does point well, but its not so much pointing in his blood, its just a lot of caution he uses, due to the fact, that here in the UP, he is hunted heavy on grouse, and has learned that. great water dog, quiet, sits well, good shed dog, and low key, till he hits the field..............

I also like the Drathar, if your looking for an all around dog, that you can take out for any birds, upland or water, and will follow you quietly along your trap line............. Find a trainer / breeder you like, work with them, look at the dogs in the field, spend some time, and you will find what you are looking for......

In my experience, the guys with the most money, have the worst dogs. Seen it all of my life, regardless if I was guiding or training. Guys have 70,000.00 trucks 3000.00 shotguns, and on and on, and just a poor handling, noisy dog.

I would rather have a 3000 dollar dog, and a 50.00 used shotgun............... good luck

groundhunter,

AGREED 100%. = "Dallas Sports" are notorious among "local folks" in our part of TX. = LOUD, bossy, believe that they are "PCs" & ARROGANT. - I also found that most of them cannot control their dogs or shoot well.

yours, tex

It’s an old play; country boy vs city boy and one that will never end. I’ve crossed paths with the good and bad and pretty much equal parts from both locations.

I guess back to the main topic or point of this thread

What did the op mean by “versatile breed?”

To me that means the dog will hunt quail out in hot sage, grouse in thickets, Huns and sharpies out in the grasslands, hunt pressured wild pheasant that sprint and run over a hundred yards before taking off or back track behind you like a rabbit hunched low, bust cattails too for pheasant, Chase after and find chukars up grueling rocky ridges, break ice for ducks, retrieve a large wounded goose, sit in your blind for doves and if asked do small game

Think that tends to really narrow down breed choices

As the OP, I will explain what I meant. I guess I don't even need what most folks define as "versatile". I'm looking for a dog to "walk the woods with". One that will point a quail or woodcock on occasion, maybe trail a rabbit, tree a squirrel, and be able to sit quietly in a platform deer stand with me and track a wounded deer on occasion.
This dog aleo needs to be small and manageable enough for me to pick up and put at my ATV to ride along with me.

Perhaps I just need a mixed breed mutt from the pound.

Except for the pointing you are describing a FBES or FBEC.

Come on shooooot!!!!

A what? Interpret please.

Is that a Brittany, battue?

That would be an English Cocker. FBEC (Field Breed English Cocker) And like Springers they are flushers. I.E. they don’t point, they take scent and push the game out.

You said you want a Dog to point Quail and Woodcock, while treeing Squirrels and trailing Rabbits. Well, Pointers point and asking them to trail Rabbits and Squirrels goes completely against the grain of a Pointer. Nor so with a Flusher

Down your way there are Boykin Spaniels. Cool Dogs and something else to consider.

That makes sense. I guess a flusher would suit me better then.

I have a Boykin, and highly recommend and love the breed. I primarily duck hunt with mine. They will do everything you are asking for very well, except point. However, they are not what I define as "low key".

Sounds like a great dog. However, of they aren't low-key I have no interest at all.

The good ones of almost any hunting stock, most often, take awhile to key down. Get them when they are young and they are little different than kids

griffon......they are what you are describing , that you want...….bob

As mentioned much earlier, "low key" is a product of the individual dog and the training it has received. It also has different connotations and meanings to each individual so is relatively meaningless in a group discussion- especially among mostly strangers.

"Low key" is often confused with "good manners" as an obedient dog is generally thought of as being calm. A poorly trained Basset hound can be just as much of a problem as a Greyhound though often in different ways. It is what the owner wishes to put up with that often determines whether the dog is low/high key rather than actual temperament.

Pick a dog, be firm and consistent on obedience and odds are you will end up with a "low key" dog. If lax in either and a dog will soon take you over whether a toy poodle or a St Bernard.

We just had an example of differences between the same breed with a German shorthair dog that was the most stubborn dog I have ever had. He was very timid of people as a puppy but had gotten over that with training. I paid a professional trainer as I couldn't get the here command down along with other issues. I had a lot of things going on in my life that happened right after we got him so I couldn't put the time into him that I needed to. The trainer help tremendously but the dog would still occasionally when chasing something run through the e-collar turned max yelping and holding his head sideways through the pain. He had gotten much better for me but my wife still struggled with him. She had him on an exercise run near dusk on a farm field and he got on something and wouldn't listen to her despite having the collar ran up to the max. He crossed a road and got hit and killed. It was traumatic for my wife but sadly a reminder of being firm and consistent from the get go. Part of the problem was he reached a year or so before being introduced to the e-collar and let run without repercussion when we went on a run just to get rid of the energy.

We just got another one despite my wife's fear of it being a "German Shorthair thing". The new dog is almost a year old but won't runoff when you aren't looking and listens for the most part. Still some training to go but he is manageable. My wife is relieved and so am I. I am starting the e-collar now as the previous owner didn't but the dog is certainly way more laid back than the previous GSP.

Another breed for you to consider since you are looking at smaller dogs would be a Vizsla. Almost like a smaller Weimaraner.

I guess it all depends on what you define as low key. If you mean good manners then yes they are. If you train them, they are very obedient. If by energy level, they are full of energy and need exercise, but I would not consider them as high strung as somethung like a GSP, English Pointer, or Weimaraner. They were originally bred to be turkey flushers and to retrieve waterfowl from small one man boats (to keep from tipping the boat over). Both activities require the dog to be obedient and still. They typically calm down considerably at 2-2.5 years of age without losing their drive. But, thats most hunting breeds in my experience.

A true hunting dog is going to be more energetic than an over weight English Bulldog.

Partagas sometimes you just get a dog, that its something in their head, and there is no explanation.. to me a low key dog, is low key in the house and in the trucks, but is a fireball in the field, I like enthusiastic dogs................. lots of good information on these posts, and great pictures........ I just suggested a Boykin and or a Cocker for a friend of mine, that does not have a big house, and wants a house dog too........................ I trained a Boykin, loved that dog, problem was the owner/handler, paranoid about letting him, get out and move,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, when it was done, we ran it with pointers on woodcock, let me tell you, that Boykin was a flushing /retrieving machine, and loved everyone and all other dogs,,,,,,,,,,,,,not cheap, he paid a grand and I think it was out of Indiana...................

From the UP down to the Carolinas, nice to hear from other dog guys,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, how can you not have a hunting dog, good or bad, no truck should be without one

Had a Griff for 6 or 7 years now. Couldn’t ask for a better dog.

Hunts well, biddable, great nose, great retriever, good watchdog.

Only bitch would be griff coats are often softer than I think they should be. Pick up briars and detritus. Mine needs stripping pretty regular if she’s not doing it herself busting through brush.

I have 2 , one is soft the other is hard....I use a fork for burrs on the one....the other ones coat is like my gwp…...my gwp is pretty laid back also.....I think a lot of some dogs being so wound up , is the owners own personality , and if they let the dogs run roughshod over them......bob

Trigg,

I just went back a re-read the original post. If you classify a lab as low key, then yes, so are Boykins. I have a good bit of hunting and trial experience with both, and I'll probably never get another lab. No disrespect to them as they're the standard, but Boykins better fit my hunting style and preference.

Yes sir. They seem to be a bit hit and miss, even in the same litter. I’ve seen them harsh and tight and a bit “fluffier”. Never too a point it was a real issue.

As long as they breed to performance, I really don’t give a schit if I have to spend an extra hour every six months with my dog. When she hunts, she strips her own coat crashing brush. My girls like a D10 dozer in the thick stuff!

I have hunted with a lot of breeds of dogs and some work good for upland,some for waterfowl,some for bloodtrailin,some good for home protection too and good with kids. but if you want a dog that will do it all decent you won`t beat a pure breed lab ,these Lab`s will be your buddy for life and protect your kids to their death. the only problem with a male Lab is they are a lover and don`t stay home well then.