Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Drop-in triggers for ARs.

Well, A trigger is very important to me. I got spoiled with 1 1/2oz benchrest triggers. I am very sensitive to triggers. I've used mostly Geissele's on ARs, a Milazzo-Kreiger, and now looking at a Elftmann. The Geissele would be hard to beat.

I won some stuff at Perry once, when my M1A trigger went south and some soul "helped" me with some emory paper and I had a 7.5 pound trigger the rest of the matches.... but then again those places, likely would have been even higher with the trigger the way it was supposed to be. LOL.

I recently installed a CMC 3.5 lb. single stage trigger in my Bushmaster and it made all the difference in the world. The trigger change and finding the correct bullet weight changed it from a 5" shooter to a 1" shooter.

On sale, Geissele SSA-E. PSA runs then on sale with mags sometimes.

As a self admitted trigger freak, I would have been all over this discussion in years past. I now realize that triggers are a personal choice and not everyone likes their triggers as crispy as I do.
Here's what NTIT aka "Rattle Battle" looks like. Maybe not 3 gun fast, but probably a bit more precise. I can't figure out where the magazine change was or if it was lost in the edit;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02ym5T6zb6c

That's a pretty good illustration of my earlier comment. Some (apparently rost495 for example) consider that rapid fire; for others that is considered more precise controlled fire, and rapid fire is something different entirely (and yes, still hitting the target, not spray and pray). 3 Gun is a good example. There is a difference in trigger manipulation between the video above and someone ringing steel with .1-.2 second splits.

Huge difference in targets too.
2 - 3 1/2 MOA for NRA HP and probably 20 MOA for most of the 3 Gun rapid fire targets. And unlike 3 Gun, in HP misses count.

In HP it's really hard to shoot fast enough to make up for a miss.

In my mind, when you get to where misses don't count other than the time it took to squeeze them, you are getting into suppressive fire territory.

Kinda cool video. I'll have to see if I can save it.

I THINK I could hear at least one mag change. And for those that say the shooting is slow, remember its slow when it starts to make sure the traces are center, and towards the end it picks up.
PLus they are limited on ammo due to the fire plan that maxes out the score.

Most folks are somewhat amazed when you see this done quickly at 600 yards with irons out of sling.

But then again the speed of 3 gun amazes me because I've never shot it. I don't doubt that getting that down too, would require some work, but that its doable for most that really want to.

Be nice if there was a vid when they were allowed to start firing and dump as many as they could at 600 without waiting on the coach for confirmation, IE just playing around.

I didn't say it was slow. I said there's a difference in how one controls the trigger between that and what's considered rapid fire in other shooting circles. If you don't try to take my words out of context, you might not feel the need to get defensive.

Tyrone, your comments about suppressive fire really have nothing to do with the discussion. We're talking about triggers, not whether one group of people shoot more precisely than another.

I had something more to share, but on second thought I won’t since it would take the discussion a bit further into the weeds.

That was a comment, not a dig. The shooting does seem slow compared to other sports. No doubt. But thats mostly due to the distance, and the fire plan. Plain and simple. No out of context or anything, I was simply explaining it a bit further.

And for sake of commenting, if you use the timing of highpower "rapid" fire strings the shooting gets even slower. Becuase of time allowed. If less time was allowed...

You know each game has its own rules.

That said we shot carbine now and then in IDPA and I never had an issue with 2 stage triggers there at all. Targets were big and time was in issue, and while I wasn't winning, we never faired bad either.

But as Chris notes triggers are very much an issue to the owner and if the owner is happy, thats all that matters, its why its so hard to comment really, without others saying, try this, try that...

And in a perfect world I'd love to try them all... but it won't happen and then you'll only have the opinion of ( at one time or another) NTIT, NRA and CMP highpower, IDPA, IPSC, plinker and hunter. No more no less.

Rost, how do you feel about a good national match trigger?

Crisp break, is about the most important thing for me, since our rules said we had to have 4.5 pound minimum triggers meaning we ran closer to 5 so we would never fail a weight check.

I've yet to pull a single stage AR trigger that I like.

But as I've noted, its all so personal.

We still have some Krieger Milazzo from back in the day. Today I'd get with Bill at Geiselle since I"ve known him and shot with him and let him guide me if I needed more serious triggers.

In the meantime I make do with RRA varmint and tweak em a bit if I have to.

Thanks rost. Lately, i seem to like the national match triggers. I like them smooth/clean and crisp too. I really dont like them too light, want to feel the pressure wall, for a more controlled feeling. Hard to explain. One thing i do know, i dont like a gritty trigger..

And I think the term is supposed to be 2 stage triggers. National Match just should mean that it conforms to the national match rules. Generally service rifle at 4.5 pounds minimum, match at no minimum?

I've had Jewels on bolt guns 2 stage 8 oz triggers, trust me you can feel the 2nd stage... but its not good training to go back to a 4.5 pound trigger then. LOL.

"National Match" is the term for rifles built by or modified to specs put out by the arsenals. I believe it started with the 1903 Springfields and applied to the M1 Garand and the M14. There never was a "National Match" spec put out for the M16 and the modifications were largely driven by the civilians (aside from some early efforts at Rodman Labs). We in the highpower competitive world chuckle at the proliferation of "National Match" labeled AR parts and rifles (Some of which are clearly not Service Rifle Competition legal) when there really is not a NM standard.

You simply are leading a very sheltered life, then.

The best single stage triggers like the Elftmann Match & the Rise 535 are everything that you are saying you want in a trigger except that they are not 2-stage.

............and they will be dead solid crisp with zero creep.

MM

I will be putting together another lower on Sunday.It will have an Elftmann.Never used one, but will soon.