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Sounds good. I haven't seen a piece of multi-use, nonwilderness, public land in the west that couldn't benefit hugely from a decrease in livestock grazing. If there is one thing that range management people agree on with near unanimity, it's that those lands are severely overgrazed.

Frankly, I see no shortage of grazing in designated wilderness, and plenty of water too development too.

Dave, seriously you crack me up. The only thing consistent in your blather is the inconsistency. Take this gem above for example. You just told us in a previous post that wilderness access is so tough that it precludes the "orange army" and will result in the end of hunting as we know it. But here you're saying that it's really not wilderness at all because there are people behind every tree, stripping the land of firewood and making nuisances of themselves. And it's those damned pantywaist yuppies no less!!! They must be some tough sumbitches to get all the way back to where the orange army dares not tread.

Which is it Dave, incredibly tough access or so easy that there are people behind every tree?

And your comment about the RMNP not being wilderness is incorrect. Have you been there and seen it for yourself? Google it if you don't believe me but at least get your facts straight. A small percentage of it is developed with campgrounds, parking lots, and so forth but most is wilderness.

And last but not least, not everyone in resort towns is a low-wage seasonal worker Dave. If people couldn't make a living there the towns would not exist, it's as simple as that. These towns are full of small businesses and small business owners and employees who make a living year-round. You discount these folks because they're not in mining, logging, ranching, or energy which are the only uses you think matter. Rather, these mom & pop operators own restaurants, grocery stores and shops, gas stations, small hotels and cabins, outfitting and guide services, snowmobile and bike rental shops, and so on and so forth. And they cater to people you like to look down your nose and sneer at, as if your favorite uses of public lands are the only ones that matter and the rest of "those people" can go pound sand. But it's "those people" who want to prioritize their uses over all else, right Dave?

You are wrong about that "one thing" and agreement among the professionals in that field.

Worst thing about bha? Buzzard is a mouthpiece for them.

Arrogant, progressive, untruthful, the list goes on....try to get a straight answer out of the guy. Textbook lib.

Anyone want go explain the love fest for the founder of Patagonia? Was this dude handing out 100 bills and handys at the last bha circle jerk?

I hear buzz is in love.....

If y'all ever find a conservative/republican public land conservation group please let me know. I'll save you a bunch of time. There ain't one.

Why? Cause the republican party has as one of their platform issues, the liquidation of public lands, an issue that I am diametrically opposed too.

I haven't voted democrat in a long time, but I sure as hell ain't gonna let the idiot republicans sell off our public land. So I support BHA and TRCP with my money to fight those stupid repubs.

Makes me a mess politically, but thats how it is.

Sooner or later the Greenies will turn on any and all hunting. They don't even like you walking across "their" land.

True conservatives while understanding we HAVE public lands want them used for Multiple Use. Not locked away per Greenie agenda, or taken under illegal pretenses as many democrat presidents have done with illegally using the Antiquities Act.

I like the public agenda bha projects, i just dont care for the dooshes running it or their less than transparent financial expenditures. Maybe they dont want credit for what they do, they sure dont make it well known where their money goes.

Ya i get it Republicans are bad, so are Democrats.....real news flash info...

Now back to yvon, yvonne, whatever the great Patagonia masters name is, lets hear his magnificent hunting stories....

The real threat for sportsmen is the loss of public lands. We have constitutional protections of our firearm rights. Not so for public lands.

Yeah, they are left leaning over there at BHA, no one should deny it. But politics and life is messy and ugly. So be it. They serve a purpose that I'm interested in and I will support cautiously.

I understand your point.

I just think that maybe rather than getting in bed with liberals, there should be a new movement to preserve public lands with strict adherence to the Multiple Use Act that protects everybody's right to be there doing what they do on public lands.

There's really no need to get in bed with liberals. If someone is industrious enough, they could suit the action to the cause... without sidetracking and sullying themselves with the likes of liberals, who will indeed stab them in the back.

We were a corporate sponsor of BHA early on when it first got going. I didnt like the way the organization was moving, and jumped ship as soon as it became clear who they were affiliated with. Some of their affiliations are cause for concern, and I would highly advise anyone interested in joining to do their homework first. There are a lot of outdoor organizations that help protect and enhance wildlife habitat, BHA doesn't have a corner on that market.

One thing that would be a plus is for everyone to get behind revocation of public land use for slobs.

Shoot holes in stuff like windmills, water tanks, signs, etc. - Banned for life.

Leave gates open that causes livestock to stray... Banned for life.

Flagrant littering. Banned.

Poaching. Banned.

Tear up the land with your atv or vehicle... Banned.

These slobs can mess things up quickly for everyone by getting the fence sitters to get off their fences.

Always wondered why people do that. We have literally millions of acres that are open to hunting, fishing, or anything else. Yukoners are pretty good, they seem more inclined to clean up their camps and leave things how they found it.......BC residents are another breed entirely. My trapline is right on the Yukon/BC border and we have been getting a lot of BC guys crossing over the last few years....you can track them by their garbage, and if it isn't nailed down they take it. Talked to our local CO about it and he said its a problem all along the border.

There is plenty of info on Chouinard if you bothered to look. Pioneering rock climber, alpinist and explorer. Author of classic books, inventer of gear still in use today and self made billionaire. He was one of the earliest proponents of the "clean climbing" ethic. He puts his money and influence towards the causes he believes will be most effective in protecting the wild places including the BHA.

He is also a dedicated backcountry angler.

What contribution or accomplishment have you made?


mike r

Kind of agree with Rock on a ban sort of thing. Just the other day I was scoping a mine evaluation with a friend, we were coming back towards town after leaving the mine site, taking the "fun" way home as we had time.
First off, the mine gate had been smashed into (it was a big, tough gate) and the warning signs all shot to heck. WTF? Then, I was more than a little ticked off to see many incidences of day glo clay birds at various and sundry sites, and some actual war zones, everything shot to heck, and this was on timber-company lands. No respect at all.
I want lands to be used, managed, but left in good condition. Use and enjoy them as they are YOURS, which they are, and it could be, under precepts of systematic multiple use management, all good, for everybody.
As for BHA, they skunk. Green tools.

Why don't you just move here where most of the public lands can only be accessed by government employees, and all the ordinary citizens are banned.


Sounds like that is what you are after.

No it isn't. Not at all.

I'm saying the lawless slobs that ruin the use of public land for everyone need to be legally banned from it. Permanently.

Follow your own suggestion and sashay down here and see the damage the slobs do, that cause entire areas to be closed to public use....

If you'll read up the thread a couple of posts made by me, I assert that if we are to have public land, that land needs to be used under the Multiple Use Act in which it was created....

Nothing I have ever said condones locking down public lands for use by govt employees only.... Ever.

I vehemently OPPOSE that.

Just get your facts straight.

Oh no, im interested in his HUNTING (capitalized for you) stories. I hear he has lots.

You are advocating eternal loss of citizen access rights for littering...don't you think a large fine or confiscation of property would be more appropriate.


I suppose you could stretch it to crucifixion for the ATVs though...I could support that in a pinch.