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Oh, yes. One more. The .260 and the Swede will outrun the CM with bullets lighter than 140. Why? Because no one cares! That wasn't one of the CM's design parameters. 
Politics is War by Other Means
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The other problem with the 6.5 Creedmoor discussion is many shooters/hunters judge cartridge performance strictly on muzzle velocity, even a gain as little as 50 fps.
Now, no doubt somebody here will claim they see a big difference in another 100 fps of muzzle velocity. If so, I applaud their sensitive perception. But in the real world I can think of several factors that outrank a 100-fps "advantage" in muzzle velocity, including:
1) Widely available, affordable and accurate factory rifles
2) Widely available, affordable and accurate factory ammunition
3) Widely available, affordable and accurate brass and bullets
Just boiling this down to another level, doesn't this make a case for existing cartridges and less fanfare for the 6.5 Creed? A 270. 6.5X55 and many other similar cartridges are only surpassed by intellectual philosophies based on similar differences of opinion. A shorter action allows about 3 ounces less of metal to be used in the build of the gun and anyone that isn't capable of pulling a bolt all the way back on a 270 sized case vs a 6.5 is really a moot point. So 3 ounces in total weight becomes a factor that really isn't any more of a factor than 100 FPS. People have also stated, had the 6.5 Creed come out instead of the 30-06 over 100 years ago, we would be better served. I would conclude, we would have been better off with a V-8 motor had it been invented before a 2 cylinder, but it doesn't work that way. It appears to me that the righteousness of the 6.5 Creedmoor is supported with no more base than those who don't want or like it. I won't be owning one anytime soon, and I doubt anyone that has one is capable of out hunting me or anyone else that hunts with a 270. Rifle looniism is about a continual exploration of differences in rifles and cartridges, that is a good thing. The 6.5, however, has become a battlefield of intellectual differences more than anything else in recent history and to say marketing and magazine articles haven't contributed to the success of the cartridge is a bit weak.
I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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Just boiling this down to another level, doesn't this make a case for existing cartridges and less fanfare for the 6.5 Creed? A 270. 6.5X55 and many other similar cartridges are only surpassed by intellectual philosophies based on similar differences of opinion.
A shorter action allows about 3 ounces less of metal to be used in the build of the gun and anyone that isn't capable of pulling a bolt all the way back on a 270 sized case vs a 6.5 is really a moot point. So 3 ounces in total weight becomes a factor that really isn't any more of a factor than 100 FPS.
The key ingredient that you are missing is detachable magazines. There aren't cheap, readily available magazines for the long action. All the good magazines are based on a 308-length cartridge. Remember, the CM was designed for competition, not hunting. Competition that involves magazine changes under time constraints that leave stripper clips at a disadvantage.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Just boiling this down to another level, doesn't this make a case for existing cartridges and less fanfare for the 6.5 Creed? A 270. 6.5X55 and many other similar cartridges are only surpassed by intellectual philosophies based on similar differences of opinion.
A shorter action allows about 3 ounces less of metal to be used in the build of the gun and anyone that isn't capable of pulling a bolt all the way back on a 270 sized case vs a 6.5 is really a moot point. So 3 ounces in total weight becomes a factor that really isn't any more of a factor than 100 FPS.
The key ingredient that you are missing is detachable magazines. There aren't cheap, readily available magazines for the long action. All the good magazines are based on a 308-length cartridge. Remember, the CM was designed for competition, not hunting. Competition that involves magazine changes under time constraints that leave stripper clips at a disadvantage. I will acknowledge your point and yield to that difference, but competition isn't the only reason the 6.5 Creedmoor has been touted as the best round in 100 years. The aspect of hunting has been argued as much or more for the use of the 6.5 Creed.
I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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I will acknowledge your point and yield to that difference, but competition isn't the only reason the 6.5 Creedmoor has been touted as the best round in 100 years. But it's the only reason it was designed.
Politics is War by Other Means
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I will acknowledge your point and yield to that difference, but competition isn't the only reason the 6.5 Creedmoor has been touted as the best round in 100 years. But it's the only reason it was designed. Again, no argument here, but that isn't the basis for most of the proponents of the 6.5 Creedmoor.
I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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Campfire Kahuna
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HitnRun,
Like many, you're refusing to acknowledge the factor that kept the 6.5x55 from being the 6.5 Creedmoor: widely varying throat length, due to being introduced as a military cartridge in 1892. Due to this factor alone, there's no way to produce 6.5x55 factory ammo that will be safe and accurate in every rifle, or to publish handloading data that's safe and accurate in every rifle.
You're also claiming "victory points" like every other 6.5 Creedmoor critic who's never even shot one. It's hard to make supposedly rational arguments about something you really don't understand, because you refuse to.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Steve,
Sorry, but those aren't the only factors in the popularity of the 6.5 Creedmoor. But like many people (especially rifle loonies who handload almost exclusively) you refuse to get it.
The 6.5 Creedmoor provides the same basic muzzle velocities as the .260 and HANDLOADED 6.5x55 ammo--but in "affordable" factory ammo, and very accurate "affordable" factory rifles.
Why in the hell would an average shooter (or even an above-average shooter) go to the trouble of buying or building some sort of 6.5x55, when throats lengths differ enormously? Handloading the 6.5x55 is a very variable pursuit, and factory ammo is also a crapshoot in both price and pressure. If you don't know this, then you haven't dealt with many 6.5x55's.
The .260 is more consistently throated, but that doesn't solve the handloading problems, even with many standard hunting bullets. In my present .260, a factory rifle known for fine accuracy, even Nosler AccuBonds (not Long Range Accubonds) and Hornady SST's can't be seated out long enough for consistent accuracy. Which is why I eventually felt compelled to modify the magazine to take 2.95" rounds.
The Creedmoor solves all those problems, with "affordable" factory rifles and ammo. If you don't get that, then you obviously don't have a grasp on the reality of modern rifle and ammo manufacturing.
But that isn't untypical of those who assume every hunter is a handloader, or even owns only custom rifles. Agreed. Only thing I'd add is the Creedmoor comes twisted correctly from the factories as well... 1-8" over the 260's 1-9". That can certainly make a differences with long, pointy bullets over 125-130 gr's. But yeah, it's all "marketing"...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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HitnRun,
Like many, you're refusing to acknowledge the factor that kept the 6.5x55 from being the 6.5 Creedmoor: widely varying throat length, due to being introduced as a military cartridge in 1892. Due to this factor alone, there's no way to produce 6.5x55 factory ammo that will be safe and accurate in every rifle, or to publish handloading data that's safe and accurate in every rifle.
You're also claiming "victory points" like every other 6.5 Creedmoor critic who's never even shot one. It's hard to make supposedly rational arguments about something you really don't understand, because you refuse to. Nope, it isn't irrational. Look back at all the Creedmoor discussions and it is continually compared as a long range cartridge against many other cartridges that weren't designed to do what the Creedmoor was. I agree that what it is capable of is superior to those other cartridges in that aspect, not necessarily all the others. At some point you too must recognize, your affiliation with the Creedmoor and guns and cartridges in general, is vastly different than the majority of this bord.
I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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I can't stand the social pressure so I'm just gonna take my 4 .260 Remigtons and rename them .260 Creedmoors. Hey...they're my guns and my loads and I want to fit in with the guys that think if you ain't shootin' a CM you ain't s##t! 😜 While I'm at it may as well rename my .243 Win. a .243 Creedmoor and my 7mm-08 a 7mm-08 Creedmoor! Hey maybe I've got the first 7mm CM now! 🤓
Last edited by basdjs; 05/12/18.
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Campfire Kahuna
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HitnRun,
What does my status have to do with all this anti-Creedmoor BS?
I found out about the 6.5 Creedmoor in the same way other people who've actually tried one did, by buying a rifle at a local store, along with a few boxes of factory ammo, and then went and shot it both at targets and game. There was no magazine assignment involved until AFTER I already owned and thoroughly tested the rifle, because I was impressed enough to talk to one of my editors.
Yes, you're irrational on this subject, just like all the others.
I gave up posting on one other thread 6.5 Creedmoor recently, because there was no point in explaining stuff to people who refuse to acknowledge even the slightest possibility that it might be a worthwhile addition. I think I'll make a new rule for myself: Don't post on ANY 6.5 Creedmoor thread, because the supply of clueless members who THINK they know all about it as apparently endless.
But that's one of the great things about the Internet: Everybody can post their opinion, even if they don't know anything about the subject.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Mule Deer,
Maybe you should re-read what I have said about the 6.5 Creedmoor. If I am irrational, you are emotional. I am not blaming you for unnecessary success of the round, I have just seen so many other comments in relationship to the round by other people that are as baseless to it’s success as the overwhelming amount of praise that it has received.
You don’t need to feel threatened or questioned about what it can do, as well as you shouldn’t be upset if everyone doesn’t want one.
I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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Campfire Kahuna
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I don't care whether anybody buys a 6.5 Creedmoor or not. Can you find a post where I said anybody should, much less needs to?
However, I do become a little perturbed when some of the anti-Creedmoor crowd suggests a mysterious SOMEBODY is insisting they dump their .260's and 6.5x55's for a Creedmoor. I have yet to read anybody suggesting that, even on the often mysterious Internet.
And your comment about its "unnecessary success" is simply yet another example of anti-Creedmoor irrationality. A good friend of mine came up with a perfect description for such statements: "aggressive ignorance," fits most anti-Creedmoorites perfectly.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Mule Deer,
Sorry you are so uptight about this, but the written word and sentence structure still have you confused. I didn’t say “the” unnecessary success, I just said “unnecessary” success, which in that sentence may suggest “unnecessary” success which is only in the context that it may exist, not insinuating that it was absolute.
I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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Lets take 10 factory rifles each of the 6.5x55, .260 and 6.5 Creed, then shoot them for accuracy with an average of 10 factory loads each and see who performs the best. I’ll bet I already know....
For those who think the success of the 6.5 Creedmoor is unwarranted, have you shot one trying multiple loads including some of the factory ammo?
I was pessimistic and it made a believer out of me.
Last edited by prm; 05/12/18.
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Campfire Ranger
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Remember when we used to bitch "why doesn't the firearms industry get off its ass and produce inexpensive accurate factory ammo and rifles that perform fine on all manner of big game up through elk and is also suitable for very long range target practice?" And now we just sit around and bitch "what's so great about that?" the glass is full, kids, at least mine is. I hope you shoot what you want and I hope you like it. But I don't care what it is. If you don't like it get something else you like. It really IS that simple.
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Campfire Tracker
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But that's one of the great things about the Internet: Everybody can post their opinion, even if they don't know anything about the subject. That is a quotable quote right there! Maybe even worthy of a signature line!  John
Last edited by Hondo64d; 05/12/18.
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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I subscribe to the theory that the longer action cartridges are good, the optimum short action cartridges are great and the Micro action is excellent at pushing a 129 grain spire point at a more than adequate velocity to take dow the average White tail or Mule deer at average ranges these critters are taken. 6.5x57, .260 & 6.5 Creedmoor & don't over look the Micro 6.5 Grendel.
Last edited by Hunterapp; 05/12/18.
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control
& Proverbs 21:19
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Thanks Mule Deer for your posts. I welcome the voice of reason. The poor Creedmoor has taken a beating on a lot of internet forums and it's shame. The other 6.5's are fine but the thing that sets it apart is it's factory support in both good ammo and accurate rifles offered.
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I’ve never had an issue getting 140s to shoot well out of multiple factory1:8” .260s.
I’ve also never been able to kiss a 140 VLDish bullet in a 6.5 Creed and feed it from a factory 2.8ish” magazine.
The Creed doesn’t outrun, or outshoot either the .260 or the Swede...... it just out sells them.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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