Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns S&W 66 combat magnum

Here's mine.

One of these just showed up in the case at my favorite LGS yesterday. $600, I believe. He prices things to move.

Just recently picked up a 686 4". The lock does not bother me in the slightest. Thing shoots amazing with 14.5 IMR 4227 and 158gr XTP's. I do prefer shooting 38's with 4gr of Unique and 158gr LSWC. Those are way too much fun to shoot.

That gun has taken a back seat to what I found just yesterday - a Model 19-2 6". I have a soft spot for blued steel and wood grips......



I am considering selling or trading the 686. If you are interested, let me know.

The forged S&W internals are only surface heat treated (case hardened). MIM parts are HARD and smooth. I have over 50k rounds through my MIM S&W 617. When I pulled the side cover, there is no appreciable visual wear to the internals. S&W is having a great deal of success with their MIM internals because they do the process correctly. BTW, the surface hardness of current MIM parts is harder than case hardened forged parts.

Problems with MIM have mostly been with 1911 parts, and those from MIM parts SUBCONTRACTORS who are trying to maximize their profit, and don't care about the reputation of their customers. There is a "trick" you can do during the MIM process that can really cut costs. When the part is first molded, it is about 30% larger than the finished part (referred to as the "green" part). It is then taken out and put in a furnace and the air is filled with Hydrogen gas. This is where the wax binder is melted off, and the metal molecules are fused together. When it's all done, the MIM part has 98% the density of a forged part (seriously, are we going to nit-pick a 2% difference?).

During this fusing process, this is where the trouble starts. The guys who are going cheap will then adjust his furnace to do the heat treatment at the same time as the fusing. The guys who do it right will do heat treatment as a completely separate process. S&W has always done the heat treatment as a separate process, and as such, really hasn't had any issues with MIM. In fact Herb Belin (former chief engineer of revolver division at S&W) told me the failure rate is exactly the same as with forged parts. However the rejection rate for dimensions is dramatically lower vs. the forged/milled part. Assembly according to Herb typically requires little to no fitting from the assemblers, where the forged/milled process almost always required fitting...and this is where the savings comes.

Since the parts come out dimensionally perfect every time, and since there is little to no hand fitting; there are far less errors made during assembly. S&W has a lifetime service policy, so a change to MIM (if it were bad) could have disastrous consequences. As it turns out, it has been a HUGE home run even though the purists reject the idea.

Actions are smoother, trigger pulls (including the famous S&W single action pull) are more consistent, parts breakage is basically un-changed. But the BIG win is...The factory return rate plummeted big time. Revolvers being returned because they weren't right has gone down by over 80% (as of 2006 when I had the conversation with Herb).

The per-part cost isn't really cheap with MIM. Raw MIM metal costs on average about 8.5 times that of stainless steel barstock. So they're not saving money there.
The cost for setup to produce just one part MIM is extremely high. This is why with 1911 makers, most end up using MIM subcontractors and very few do MIM in house. A MIM part vs. a forged/milled part is nearly the same in cost. In fact, the only process common in gun making that is more costly than MIM is milling from barstock. So they're not saving money there. As of 2006 the cost for setup for just ONE part was 30-50k.
Labor is always the most expensive part of most any operation, and especially so for manufacturing. So the savings they get is in both assembly, and in warranty returns. Since there is little to no fitting required, an assembler can put more revolvers together per hour (big savings to labor). And since everything is correct and repeatable from one revolver to the next, there's a huge drop in the number of guns that are returned for warranty repair (big savings to labor)

So you're not getting a "cheaper part". You're getting a part that is easier to install, and is much less likely to need warranty repair.

For clarity sake, I think I should add that all of that came from a conversation in 2006. Hardening of MIM parts can be done during the sintering process (fusing), or afterwards. As of 2006, S&W was doing the hardening as a separate step. The "problem" MIM makers were having their problems with that part of the process (according to Herb).

To do it during, requires the base metal to be chosen specifically to accommodate that, and the process is a bit more technical. Early practitioners had a learning curve. The base metal is very expensive, so if you make a huge batch of parts and they're not right, you're throwing away a LOT of money. Clearly, some chose to just use the part.

S&W chose to take the process in house so they could have complete control over quality. I suspect their two part process was to accommodate their learning curve, but clearly it paid off. The two part process cost a lot more, but S&W wasn't having any issues while other companies were pulling their hair out and ruining their reputations. For all I know, they could still be using the exact same process. Or they could have perfected hardening during sintering. Regardless, S&W is cleary doing MIM right.

Same.

Ky221: I own several S&W Model 66's and carried one professionally for a number of years.
I own 66's with 2", 4" and 6" barrels. By far my favorite for plinking, woods loafing, truck carrying, small game (and Grouse) Hunting are my 6"ers!
I most often shoot wadcutters for Rock Chuckin, Grouse Hunting and clay pigeon shooting.
The 6" models are also preferable when teaching new pistoleros how to shoot and handle a pistol safely (again with wadcutters).
I say put up with the extra weight and get a 6" Model 66 and lay low some Groundhogs!
The extra accuracy advantage is well worth it in my opinion/experience.
Personally I would not even consider owning/investing in a Model 66 (or any Smith for that matter!) with the lock up hole!
Your money would be better invested in a "pre-lock" model.
Best of luck to you with whichever you choose.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I've never understood why there weren't more 5" revolvers. 4" always seemed too short and 6" always seemed too long. I had one 5" model 10 and want to replace it.

I've had a 4" S&W 19 since 1967, bought it new at Norm's Gun Shop in White River Junction, VT, for $130 with money earned baling hay. I've owned several S&W 27s, 66s, a 520, and a 620. Of them all, I think that I like the 620 the best as it is a "Goldie Locks" revolver, not too large, not too small, just right for my hand.

I have a 5" S&W 66, the barrel was shortened and the sight reinstalled by Ahlman's in Morristown, MN. I agree with you, it seems handier than a 6" and no less handy than a 4". Skeeter Skelton was a fan of the 5" S&W. In addition to the 66 Ahlman's shortened the barrels on 2 different 624s to 5' for me.

Why replace it? What could be better than a 5" Model 10? LOL.

The best of the best, pinned and recessed 66-1.

Mine wears the original wood grips.

I have a Model 66 from about twenty-six or twenty-seven years ago. I remains my favorite sidearm for hunting of all kinds. I have taken a half-dozen or so lions with it, as well as dispatching a few more desert mule deer that needed a finishing shot. These days, it's about the only pistol that I carry while hiking in the mountains down here, where you are more likely to confront smugglers and other illegals than black bears--and we do have a lot of black bears. I carry a few extra snake loads in my pocket, especially when hiking trails that are popular with folks out from Tucson or Phoenix on the weekends.

It'd be a replacement because I sold the one I started with.

I know. I intentionally "misunderstood" your somewhat ambiguously phrased statement. It was an attempt at humor.

Mine, too, actually.

Perfection.
Nothing will ever compare, in my book.

The 3” Model 66 is the cat’s meow of carry revolvers and one of my all time favorites.
Here’s mine.

Haven't seen a 3" in years, unless I just ignored it because it was so vastly overpriced.

Beautiful piece, chlinstructor.