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If using a shotgun at close range, slugs all the way is recommended by Stefan Herrero and some of the AK F&G biologists. Herrera is one of the last guys I would give much credence to... ADF&G protocol includes a 375H&H... The by-stander in Seward at the problem-black-bear shoot taking a slug ricochet in the sternum probably wished for a lighter, more directionally stable projectile.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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The name used Buckshot came from hunting deer in the thick woods so in the early days deer hunters loaded big shot in their shotgun "muzzle loader type at first" then when shotgun shells were perfected bigger lead shot was loaded and used on deer at close range when deer ran and it got the name buckshot,some states it is still legal to use yet also. The guys I worked with said when they were sent to Viet Nam the wing guys on patrol used a shotgun with buckshot ,was said Charlie" viet cong" did not like when that lead came their way.
Last edited by pete53; 05/26/18.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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If using a shotgun at close range, slugs all the way is recommended by Stefan Herrero and some of the AK F&G biologists. Herrera is one of the last guys I would give much credence to... ADF&G protocol includes a 375H&H... The by-stander in Seward at the problem-black-bear shoot taking a slug ricochet in the sternum probably wished for a lighter, more directionally stable projectile. I don't mind Herrera, nor Tom Smith. Both have the most successful bear studies, including a web page that's is not longer active, about the count of bear/human confrontations in Alaska for the past 100 years. That page was active around 8 years ago, and had all the documented cases of bear attacks that resulted on injuries and death of people in Alaska. It included a couple of deaths from polar bears, to a lot of injuries and death from black and grizzly bears. While I don't have much faith in the F&G and other biologists about what to do during a bear attack and the use of firearms, Herrero's study about human-habituated bears, specially the ones that hang around dump sites, is quite interesting. This is a note of the bear/human conflicts in Alaska, but not the very detailed web page that was published before: https://www.researchgate.net/public...ska_1880-2015_Alaska_Human-Bear_Conflict
Last edited by Ray; 05/26/18.
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If using a shotgun at close range, slugs all the way is recommended by Stefan Herrero and some of the AK F&G biologists. Herrera is one of the last guys I would give much credence to... ADF&G protocol includes a 375H&H... The by-stander in Seward at the problem-black-bear shoot taking a slug ricochet in the sternum probably wished for a lighter, more directionally stable projectile. As I mentioned before my preference is not a shotgun, regardless of slugs used. For the campsite it's probably fine, but otherwise I just don't have much confidence on it. But what I was trying to say before is that if one were to use a shotgun at close range, it makes no sense to alternate shots from buck to slugs. Just load it with slugs and be done with it. To me a Marlin .45-70 loaded with hard-cast heavy slugs make a lot more sense.
Last edited by Ray; 05/26/18.
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Lots of guys have opinions on shotguns / buckshot for bears, but few have used the combo. At extremely close range buckshot is as lethal as anything I've ever used. I've killed 3 bears with it over the years, and every one was an instant kill. They literally dropped in their tracks. There was an 11 year old kid in Hoonah a few years back that killed a big brown with #7 shot, again at spitting distance. The reason so few have used the combo is because it is a foolish idea. I have seen what buckshot does on a wide range of critters at a wide range of distances. In a defensive or mop-up situation it has absolutely nothing on slugs and slugs have a lot over buckshot. Just because someone once killed a brown bear with birdshot at spitting distance does not make it a good answer for general use. A 22lr was used to kill a previous World record grizzly at more than spitting distance, but it would not be my first choice, nor a vaguely reasonable choice for a back-up rifle. . Few have used buckshot because they spend their lives trolling the internet, putting 34 thousand plus posts up trying to impress others with their vast experience. I dont need or want your advice because I have first hand experience with a shotgun. I've tested buck on real live grizzlies and regardless of your mindless ramblings I know that it works. In an average year I spend 7-9 months in the bush and have for 40 plus years now, I know what works for me. Although it isn't my first choice for most situations, in some it cant be beat. Heimo Korth arguably one of the most experienced woodsmen your state has ever produced loves the 12 for defensive situations so Im in good company. Use whatever you want but your comment that it is a foolish idea just shows your inexperience. Nobody ever said buck was the best for "general use" whatever that is....but when the distance is measured in feet its hard to beat. Heimo also uses a 22/250 on everything , including grizzlies and moose ! >>> NO Heimo used a 12 gauge pump shotgun with slugs ,when he went back to his moose kill spot to retrieve his moose meat ,Heimo packed the shotgun in case a bear was near the moose kill site. Heimo even said: best thing to use with a bear on a kill site was a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs, Heimo said this on the last Alaskan show. my old marine friend killed plenty bear, this Marine who lived in Alaska also liked the shotgun with slugs too at close range and charge`n him, believe me he`s had worse things happen to this marine coming at him in the tunnels and swamps of Viet Nam, they don`t come any tougher with a gun and a knife as these old Vets ! You are aware that the tv show is largely fantasy, right? Having suffered several seasons on a reality show I would bet you a month’s pay that he had no less than 4 extra people with him making lord knows what kind of racket going in to retrieve his moose. I’d also be willing to bet that the footage you saw was shot at least a half dozen times to get the right footage. Point being there likely wasn’t a bear within ten miles and he could have carried a flyswatter with him and been fine. TV is TV and not as real as you seem to think it is. And having been involved in a small boxcar load of bear killings, though I’d guess not nearly as many as Art and Phil, I feel certain that a rifle is always the better tool to have if given the choice.
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And just for the shotgunners. I know a lifelong Alaskan who once killed a B&C book caribou while shooting ducks out by Illiamna. His load of choice, 1 1/4 oz of lead 6s in a cut shell out of his 1100.
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Campfire Kahuna
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If using a shotgun at close range, slugs all the way is recommended by Stefan Herrero and some of the AK F&G biologists. Herrera is one of the last guys I would give much credence to... ADF&G protocol includes a 375H&H... The by-stander in Seward at the problem-black-bear shoot taking a slug ricochet in the sternum probably wished for a lighter, more directionally stable projectile. I don't mind Herrera, nor Tom Smith. Both have the most successful bear studies, including a web page that's is not longer active, about the count of bear/human confrontations in Alaska for the past 100 years. That page was active around 8 years ago, and had all the documented cases of bear attacks that resulted on injuries and death of people in Alaska. It included a couple of deaths from polar bears, to a lot of injuries and death from black and grizzly bears. While I don't have much faith in the F&G and other biologists about what to do during a bear attack and the use of firearms, Herrero's study about human-habituated bears, specially the ones that hang around dump sites, is quite interesting. This is a note of the bear/human conflicts in Alaska, but not the very detailed web page that was published before: https://www.researchgate.net/public...ska_1880-2015_Alaska_Human-Bear_ConflictHerrero was spanked mightily about the first edition of his book. Read both editions and get back to us about what he really knew and knows. And the very basic flaw is it is very much agenda-driven. As to his studies of "ALL" bear-human interactions... hardly... and his agenda shows in his selection of incidents. Feel free to believe, but his books have major flaws. Some ADF&G bios over the years have been extraordinarily bear savy and do not deserve that broad brush from someone that buys into Herrero.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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And just for the shotgunners. I know a lifelong Alaskan who once killed a B&C book caribou while shooting ducks out by Illiamna. His load of choice, 1 1/4 oz of lead 6s in a cut shell out of his 1100. I once loaded a shotshell with split shot crimped on a steel wire and coiled neatly in the shot cup. I got quite close and let her rip before my quarry sensed my presence and charged. It made a Hell of a racket as the load whistled and spun through the air. Damn near cut the woodchuck in two!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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The name used Buckshot came from hunting deer in the thick woods so in the early days deer hunters loaded big shot in their shotgun "muzzle loader type at first" then when shotgun shells were perfected bigger lead shot was loaded and used on deer at close range when deer ran and it got the name buckshot,some states it is still legal to use yet also. The guys I worked with said when they were sent to Viet Nam the wing guys on patrol used a shotgun with buckshot ,was said Charlie" viet cong" did not like when that lead came their way. Sadly, Rick still has no sarcasm emoticon...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Apparently not needed yet. 
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." Thomas Paine
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Campfire Kahuna
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Apparently not needed yet. Curses! Foiled again!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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If using a shotgun at close range, slugs all the way is recommended by Stefan Herrero and some of the AK F&G biologists. Herrera is one of the last guys I would give much credence to... ADF&G protocol includes a 375H&H... The by-stander in Seward at the problem-black-bear shoot taking a slug ricochet in the sternum probably wished for a lighter, more directionally stable projectile. I don't mind Herrera, nor Tom Smith. Both have the most successful bear studies, including a web page that's is not longer active, about the count of bear/human confrontations in Alaska for the past 100 years. That page was active around 8 years ago, and had all the documented cases of bear attacks that resulted on injuries and death of people in Alaska. It included a couple of deaths from polar bears, to a lot of injuries and death from black and grizzly bears. While I don't have much faith in the F&G and other biologists about what to do during a bear attack and the use of firearms, Herrero's study about human-habituated bears, specially the ones that hang around dump sites, is quite interesting. This is a note of the bear/human conflicts in Alaska, but not the very detailed web page that was published before: https://www.researchgate.net/public...ska_1880-2015_Alaska_Human-Bear_ConflictHerrero was spanked mightily about the first edition of his book. Read both editions and get back to us about what he really knew and knows. And the very basic flaw is it is very much agenda-driven. As to his studies of "ALL" bear-human interactions... hardly... and his agenda shows in his selection of incidents. Feel free to believe, but his books have major flaws. Some ADF&G bios over the years have been extraordinarily bear savy and do not deserve that broad brush from someone that buys into Herrero. Not trying to argue with you, but what I am interested on is not how F&G biologists and others such as Herrero have to say about bear and human interaction, but data related to actual accounts of bear attacks on humans that have resulted in injury or death (such as the link I posted above). By the way, the data in the link is not from Herrero's books. That data comes from recorded and published bear attacks on humans for a period of approximately 100 years.
Last edited by Ray; 05/27/18.
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Campfire Kahuna
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If using a shotgun at close range, slugs all the way is recommended by Stefan Herrero and some of the AK F&G biologists. Herrera is one of the last guys I would give much credence to... ADF&G protocol includes a 375H&H... The by-stander in Seward at the problem-black-bear shoot taking a slug ricochet in the sternum probably wished for a lighter, more directionally stable projectile. I don't mind Herrera, nor Tom Smith. Both have the most successful bear studies, including a web page that's is not longer active, about the count of bear/human confrontations in Alaska for the past 100 years. That page was active around 8 years ago, and had all the documented cases of bear attacks that resulted on injuries and death of people in Alaska. It included a couple of deaths from polar bears, to a lot of injuries and death from black and grizzly bears. While I don't have much faith in the F&G and other biologists about what to do during a bear attack and the use of firearms, Herrero's study about human-habituated bears, specially the ones that hang around dump sites, is quite interesting. This is a note of the bear/human conflicts in Alaska, but not the very detailed web page that was published before: https://www.researchgate.net/public...ska_1880-2015_Alaska_Human-Bear_ConflictHerrero was spanked mightily about the first edition of his book. Read both editions and get back to us about what he really knew and knows. And the very basic flaw is it is very much agenda-driven. As to his studies of "ALL" bear-human interactions... hardly... and his agenda shows in his selection of incidents. Feel free to believe, but his books have major flaws. Some ADF&G bios over the years have been extraordinarily bear savy and do not deserve that broad brush from someone that buys into Herrero. Not trying to argue with you, but what I am interested on is not how F&G biologists and others such as Herrero have to say about bear and human interaction, but data related to actual accounts of bear attacks on humans that have resulted in injury or death (such as the link I posted above). By the way, the data in the link is not from Herrero's books. That data comes from recorded and published bear attacks on humans for a period of approximately 100 years. Thank you Captain Obvious! The point is not all records made the book and not all incidents made the records. How they were chosen by Herrero showed an agenda, not clean science.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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not sure if this is true ? but I read in a couple of books that black bears are more likely to attack humans, you Alaskan`s might have a different answer in your state ? not sure ? Here in Minnesota a black bear attack happens once in a while mostly by people who do foolish things , I always just stay away and leave bears alone,believe me I have been very close by accident to a couple of bigger black bears without a weapon too and close to a couple of grizzlies too that I did not care for. as a lineman even had to take a smaller dead bear off a transformer on pole up about 30 feet high.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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What I read was that Black Bears are much less likely to attack but in those rare cases you better fight for your life because he intends to eat you. The article said Brown/Grizzly bears are more bad tempered and more likely to attack but less likely to kill/eat you if you play dead. They get bored apparently. I don't know if this is true or not.
I personally can't see myself "playing dead" while being bitten, clawed and tossed around by a bear but that seems to be convention wisdom of the folks we pay to know about such things. I am not saying it isn't a good idea just saying I am not sure I could do that. Hope not to find out...
"Socialism produces bad music, bad art, social stagnation and really unhappy people", “I am a conservative, and you may not like that, but I am.” Frank Zappa 1986
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Campfire Kahuna
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Black bears tend to be more predatory when they attack and will be more likely to eat you. Brown bears tend not to be, but old animals in bad condition and hungry young animals, will sometimes cross that line, too.
Black bears tend to cause a greater number of problems simply due to a far higher population living in closer proximity to far more people over a far greater range.
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I must apologize to you Sitka deer. Perhaps I was not clear about Tom Smith's database I was referring to.
Several years ago, Tom Smith compiled all the known and recorded bear attacks in Alaska for a period of 100 years (up to 2015), and put it on a webpage that showed tables, charts, and an Alaska map that showed the areas where the incidents took place. I was not referring to Herrero's books.
Last edited by Ray; 05/27/18.
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When I think of Buckshot, I'm thinking of the "hardened, copper coated" 00 or 000 if available. I'm sure that "specialized" ammo like this, the Dixie slugs that are hardened and even the Brennekes are hard to find in AK. Price would be up there too, so the "average guy" would be stuck with what he could get. I too think a short 45-70 with heavy hard cast would be great, but most don't like the recoil ( same with those heavy Dixie slugs, OMG those things hurt!) I was just wondering what most guys use, not the out of state hunters. Dixie even makes an 870gr "Dangerous Game Slug"...surely that would work? 
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At the ranges buckshot is effective you don’t get enough spread to make it any easier to hit your target. So the question is why choose something that might work when you can choose something that will work? I know lots of guys who’ve killed lots of bears with lots of different guns. Never met one who had a rifle bullet fail to penetrate a bear skull but I have met a couple who ran into trouble with buckshot and slugs in the same scenario.
As to the point of the thread, an all around rifle, I’m reminded of a friend’s coworker who was talking about how necessary a .30 magnum was for shooting bears. He piped down about his 300RUM and multiple ass shots after my buddy showed him a picture of a very good bear my dear wife killed with a single 150gr Sierra from her .270. Use a good bullet and shoot them in the front half and they’ll die, regardless of species or caliber.
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At the ranges buckshot is effective you don’t get enough spread to make it any easier to hit your target. So the question is why choose something that might work when you can choose something that will work? I know lots of guys who’ve killed lots of bears with lots of different guns. Never met one who had a rifle bullet fail to penetrate a bear skull but I have met a couple who ran into trouble with buckshot and slugs in the same scenario.
As to the point of the thread, an all around rifle, I’m reminded of a friend’s coworker who was talking about how necessary a .30 magnum was for shooting bears. He piped down about his 300RUM and multiple ass shots after my buddy showed him a picture of a very good bear my dear wife killed with a single 150gr Sierra from her .270. Use a good bullet and shoot them in the front half and they’ll die, regardless of species or caliber. Only way a slug or buckshot would fail to penetrate would be if the distance was to far. Buckshot especially, isn't something you want to use further than a few yards at most but in that distance it is devastating. The three bears I've killed with it all had multiple pellets penetrate the skull. I know old Bill Stevenson has been known to carry a 12 gauge with slugs and he's been involved in as many bear fiascos as any. I believe AF&G recommends the 30/06 with 220 grain bullets as best for protection against bears. I know our F&G officers usually use a 12 gauge. The best rifle for Alaska or anywhere else for that matter is the one you shoot best.
Last edited by yukon254; 05/29/18.
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